[00:00]	<noiz>	as for ripping cds, you need to use an external ripping program (i like audiograbber, which is pretty easy to use), and then put the songs on the neuros through the sync manager
[00:01]	<noiz>	the device is pretty solid, as long as you dont do anything like unplugging it while it is syncing, then it seems to work pretty solid
[00:02]	<noiz>	the only way that i have been able to crash it is trying to go really fast through the menus while it is broadcasting (since that takes up a lot of processing power the menus are slower when you go through them)
[00:03]	<noiz>	hope that answers all of your questions
[00:03]	<JoshTriplett>	Do any of the non-official sync managers integrate CD ripping?
[00:07]	<noiz>	not yet, since cd ripping programs are pretty hard to program, none of them have any plans to integrate it
[00:07]	<JoshTriplett_>	has joined #neuros
[00:07]	<JoshTriplett_>	Sorry, I got cut off. Is this channel logged anywhere?
[00:07]	<noiz>	yeah, www.loglibrary.com
[00:08]	<noiz>	www.loglibrary.com
[00:08]	<noiz>	it would be really hard to integrate cd ripping into a sync software, and it would probably have a lot of bugs... :(
[00:10]	<noiz>	or at least that is my understanding
[00:10]	<JoshTriplett_>	Heh; that's perfect; a comparison of ipod and neuros, just before I got here. :)
[00:11]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: When you said itunes was "way too controlling", what did you mean?
[00:11]	<noiz>	it trys to find all of the music on your computer and add it automatically without you having to do anything
[00:12]	<JoshTriplett_>	Ah.
[00:12]	<JoshTriplett_>	That does sound like a pain; I'd prefer "look under this directory, only".
[00:12]	<JoshTriplett_>	(Like amaroK.)
[00:13]	<JoshTriplett_>	So once you rip all the songs, the sync manager lets you look through, categorize, etc.
[00:13]	<JoshTriplett_>	?
[00:13]	<noiz>	it reads the id3 tags, which are automatically downloaded from the internet when you rip the cd, so it shouldnt really be a problem
[00:14]	<noiz>	you can then make custom playlists
[00:14]	<JoshTriplett_>	What about the default playlists? Does the player automatically let you choose Genre, Artist, Album, etc?
[00:14]	<JoshTriplett_>	Like "Play all my Country songs", or "Play everything by so-and-so", or "play the album X".
[00:15]	<JoshTriplett_>	And also just let you look through all your songs and pick one?
[00:15]	<noiz>	yeah, it automatically has it sorted with alums, genre, artist, and you can have it do album and then artist
[00:15]	<noiz>	yeah it can do that
[00:15]	<noiz>	all of that
[00:15]	<JoshTriplett_>	Album then artist? Is that for compilations?
[00:15]	<JoshTriplett_>	Or do you mean artist then album?
[00:16]	<JoshTriplett_>	And what do you mean by "you can have it do"?
[00:16]	<noiz>	when you select album, it then has two choices which are all albums or albums by artist
[00:16]	<JoshTriplett_>	Ah.
[00:16]	<JoshTriplett_>	So Album -> All Albums -> Album name, or Album -> By Artist -> So-and-So -> Album name?
[00:16]	<noiz>	yeah
[00:17]	<JoshTriplett_>	Cool.
[00:17]	<JoshTriplett_>	How about "Random everything"?
[00:17]	<noiz>	sorune can also have things like albums under genre
[00:17]	<JoshTriplett_>	Cool.
[00:17]	<noiz>	yeah
[00:17]	<JoshTriplett_>	How much of this depends on the sync software?
[00:17]	<noiz>	you can play everything on random
[00:17]	<JoshTriplett_>	Is the neuros entirely dependant on the sync software to do playlists and categorization?
[00:18]	<noiz>	you just have to rebuild the database and transfer the files onto the neuros
[00:18]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: And the sync software automatically does the categorization?
[00:18]	<noiz>	it does rely on the computer to do most of that, but there is a play queue on the neuros and also an option to add to a playlist called my mix
[00:18]	<noiz>	yeah
[00:19]	<JoshTriplett_>	Ah, so you can have one custom playlist written on the neuros, and also say "play this next, then this, then this, then this"?
[00:19]	<JoshTriplett_>	So you could queue up a few hours of music?
[00:19]	<noiz>	and the reason it uses the computer is so it wont have to take a long time for the neuros to make its own database
[00:19]	<JoshTriplett_>	Right.
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[00:20]	<noiz>	yeah, you can easyily add things to a play queue while you are listening to musix
[00:20]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: Define "easily".
[00:20]	<JoshTriplett>	:)
[00:21]	<JoshTriplett>	Also, does all of this work just as well with Vorbis files and the tags on those?
[00:21]	<noiz>	you can be browsing through your collection while you are listening to music, and find a song that you like, click right on the joystick and a menu pops up, and then in the menu select add to play queue
[00:22]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: And if you just hit the play button, it'll play that immediately, instead of what's currently playing?
[00:22]	<noiz>	the higher quality the vorbis files are, the more it slows the unit down during playback, but i have no problem with all of my q5 oggs
[00:22]	<noiz>	yeah
[00:22]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: I don't think I'd be using anything more than -q6.
[00:22]	<noiz>	then you should be fine
[00:23]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: So what level would you say causes a problem?
[00:23]	<JoshTriplett>	-q level, I mean.
[00:23]	<noiz>	q6 might cause little skips when you are broadcasting, and im pretty sure that q7 files skip while broadcasting too
[00:24]	<noiz>	but with headphones ive heard GarBage can play q10 oggs without any skips
[00:24]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: I definitely wouldn't be using non-standard firmware.
[00:24]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: How is the FM broadcast? Does it use a fixed frequency, or can it use anything?
[00:25]	<noiz>	well, i think that is with the official firmware too
[00:25]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: Ah.
[00:25]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: And what is the quality on the FM broadcast?
[00:25]	<noiz>	the fm broadcast depends on where you are, here around washington dc, there arnt many free stations, but it still works pretty well
[00:25]	<noiz>	you can select whatever frequency you want
[00:26]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: Any arbitrary FM frequency?
[00:26]	<noiz>	it broadcasts in stereo and it really just depends on where you are
[00:26]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: Does it remember the last one you used?
[00:26]	<noiz>	any odd frequency if you get the neuros II
[00:26]	<noiz>	yes it does
[00:26]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: So if it were set up to use a frequency that works in our area, then you'd just have to turn on the broadcast?
[00:26]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: What's the menu sequence to turn on the broadcast?
[00:27]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: And what's the range?
[00:27]	<noiz>	it automatically turns on when the headphones arnt plugged in
[00:27]	<noiz>	i think its like 88.1-107.9
[00:27]	<Rez>	JoshTriplett: why would you not run non-standard firmware? it's simple to reflash it back
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[00:28]	<JoshTriplett_>	Sorry. :)
[00:28]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: So if headphones are plugged in, it plays through those, and if not, it does FM broadcast?
[00:28]	<noiz>	yeah
[00:28]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: Wonderful.
[00:28]	<Rez>	JoshTriplett_: why would you not run non-standard firmware? it's simple to reflash it back
[00:29]	<noiz>	it cant do both at the same time because of FCC regulations
[00:29]	<JoshTriplett_>	Rez: The thing needs to be absolutely rock-solid.
[00:29]	<noiz>	although i think the open source firmware can...
[00:29]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: Really? What regulation in particular?
[00:29]	<Rez>	JoshTriplett_: oh, you're one of those people that thinks the manufacturer can do no wrong.
[00:29]	<noiz>	how strong the broadcast signal is, and if headphones are plugged in they act as an antenna
[00:29]	<JoshTriplett_>	Rez: :)
[00:29]	<JoshTriplett_>	Rez: No...
[00:30]	<JoshTriplett_>	Rez: Are you suggesting the unofficial firmwares are *more* stable?
[00:30]	<noiz>	not at the moment
[00:30]	<noiz>	the car mode in garbages new firmware is kinda buggy
[00:30]	<Rez>	he just released that friday though
[00:31]	<noiz>	yeah, but other than that i think it is pretty stable
[00:31]	<JoshTriplett_>	OK, so it sounds like at the moment "rock-solid" means "use the offical firmware".
[00:31]	<noiz>	i guess so...
[00:32]	<noiz>	but if any of the firmwares crash they usually are easily fixable
[00:32]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: That's not the point. If it has to be fixed, then it's broken. :)
[00:32]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: Like I said, I'm not the primary user here.
[00:33]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: This would be for someone who is not inclined towards technology. :)
[00:33]	<noiz>	well, i havnt had the firmware crash on many since about june
[00:33]	<noiz>	and thats when i was using beta firmware
[00:33]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: OK, thanks.
[00:33]	<JoshTriplett_>	Is the neuros sold in any stores somewhere? Some way I could actually fiddle with the interface?
[00:34]	<noiz>	unfortunately not
[00:34]	<noiz>	it used to be sold at compusa
[00:34]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: Not anymore?
[00:34]	<noiz>	but the flash demo on the site (although outdated) is still pretty close to the user interface that the neuros uses now
[00:34]	<noiz>	yeah, not anymore
[00:34]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: So there's no way I could actually get my hands on a physical device?
[00:34]	<noiz>	some stores still have it though
[00:34]	<noiz>	youd have to check
[00:35]	<noiz>	a while ago i saw my compusa still had a neuros out
[00:35]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: I'll do that; there are several in our area.
[00:35]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: And the flash demo simulates both the interface and the buttons, so you can navigate it exactly as you would with a physical device?
[00:35]	<noiz>	and keep in mind that the units at compusa probably have really outdated firmware too
[00:35]	<noiz>	yeah, i think it does
[00:35]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: Would they be the neuros I?
[00:35]	<noiz>	yeah
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[00:36]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: Ah...
[00:36]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: Is the flash demo of the Neuros II?
[00:36]	<noiz>	the neuros II is pretty much the same just it has a usb2 port on the backpack and the main part is now black instead of silber
[00:36]	<noiz>	silver
[00:36]	<noiz>	no, its of the neuros I
[00:36]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: Ah, so the interface hasn't really changed, just the USB2 and the coloring?
[00:37]	<JoshTriplett>	How is the size and weight of the thing? Convenient?
[00:37]	<noiz>	www.neurosaudio.com
[00:37]	<noiz>	yeah, the interface is pretty much the same, just it has more features now
[00:38]	<noiz>	it fits in all of my pockets though
[00:38]	<JoshTriplett>	Thanks, that helps; is that a I or II in the picture there?
[00:38]	<noiz>	II
[00:38]	<JoshTriplett>	Cool.
[00:38]	<noiz>	it is really a great mp3 player
[00:38]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: Thank you so much for all your help. I'll probably be back with more questions later.
[00:39]	<noiz>	k
[00:39]	<JoshTriplett>	noiz: I've certainly got an excellent opinion of the tech support. :)
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[00:39]	<noiz>	im going to be leaving soon, but hopefully someone will be on
[00:39]	<noiz>	nm then
[00:40]	<noiz>	well, in case you read the logs JoshTriplett, the forums are also a great place to post questions, or look for questions, and you usually get an answer pretty fast
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[00:55]	<GarBage>	Rez: i've heard some people posted the same problem on the wiki, it works flawlessly here
[00:55]	<noiz>	i have problems with car mode
[00:55]	<noiz>	i always get an error when i try and change it off car mode
[00:55]	<noiz>	from the xtra gear menu
[00:56]	<Rez>	dunno what to tell ya, but that menu item always errors
[00:56]	<Rez>	and yes, I've done a nand format
[00:56]	<noiz>	same here
[00:56]	<GarBage>	so, i must be the only one with a working menu then
[00:57]	<noiz>	yep
[00:57]	<noiz>	im out
[00:57]	<noiz>	later
[00:57]	<noiz>	has quit ["Leaving"]
[01:00]	<GarBage>	humm... just tried Caffarelli's build
[01:00]	<GarBage>	it works as intended as well
[01:05]	<noiz>	has joined #neuros
[01:06]	<noiz>	has quit [Client Quit]
[01:12]	<Rez>	what model do you have?
[01:14]	<Rez>	hrm, it seems to pick a different song every time it turns on too
[01:17]	<GarBage>	i have a N2 bundle
[01:20]	<Rez>	128 or 256?
[01:20]	<GarBage>	128
[01:23]	<Rez>	hrm. I've got a 256. I wonder what noiz has
[01:29]	<GarBage>	neuros-firmware.sourceforge.net
[01:29]	<GarBage>	256
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[03:18]	<Yono>	Wow GarBage, lots of todos
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[03:35]	<JoshTriplett>	What is the battery life like on the 20GB version?
[03:35]	<Koron>	it is roughly the same regardless of hdd size
[03:36]	<Koron>	it spins up the hdd, reads the song into the flash memory, then spins down the hdd
[03:36]	<JoshTriplett>	Koron: Cool. :)
[03:36]	<JoshTriplett>	On that note, is the hard disk noticeably loud or have much vibration?
[03:36]	<Koron>	no noise
[03:36]	<JoshTriplett>	Cool.
[03:37]	<Koron>	vibration is minimal, can't feel it unless it is touching your skin
[03:37]	<Koron>	and even then it is very light
[03:37]	<JoshTriplett>	Great.
[03:43]	<JoshTriplett>	How easy is it to swap between the 64MB internal memory and the 20GB backpack?
[03:43]	<Yono>	very
[03:43]	<JoshTriplett>	Yono: I mean, to have songs on both.
[03:43]	<Yono>	just takes a while to load the DB
[03:44]	<Yono>	I know what you meant ;)
[03:44]	<JoshTriplett>	:)
[03:45]	<Koron>	time to load the newest copy from the cvs on
[03:53]	<JoshTriplett>	Hmmm. Could someone please post a link to the .swf file used in the Neuros demo? I'm trying to download and play it, because the autodetection code doesn't think I have flash.
[03:56]	<JoshTriplett>	Nevermind.
[03:59]	<JoshTriplett>	How long, roughly, does the battery actually last with normal use?
[03:59]	<JoshTriplett>	And how long does it take to charge?
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[04:04]	<Koron|out>	does neuroscast autoscan display properly for anyone?
[04:04]	<Yono>	well
[04:04]	<Koron|out>	it appears to choose a frequency, but it doesn't show what channels it is scanning on
[04:04]	<Koron|out>	nor what one it chose until you actually play a song with it on
[04:04]	<Yono>	are you using the one with the autoscan animation removed?
[04:04]	<Koron|out>	just using the cvs
[04:04]	<Yono>	yep
[04:04]	<Yono>	thats the one with the animation removed
[04:04]	<Koron|out>	hm
[04:05]	<Koron|out>	is there a reason for it being removed?
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[04:07]	<noiz>	hey
[04:07]	<JoshTriplett_>	has joined #neuros
[04:07]	<noiz>	hey josh
[04:08]	<noiz>	you got any more questions?
[04:10]	<Koron|out>	were you guys saying car mode doesn't work for you? works fine for me
[04:10]	<JoshTriplett_>	Hi noiz.
[04:10]	<JoshTriplett_>	Yup. :)
[04:11]	<JoshTriplett_>	How is the battery life on the Neuros (HD model)? How long does it typically last for you?
[04:11]	<noiz>	yeah, i think car mode might not work in GarBages build
[04:11]	<noiz>	i have 10+ hours usually
[04:11]	<Koron|out>	well, i am using the cvs that i downloaded last night
[04:11]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: With constant play?
[04:11]	<Koron|out>	yeah, that would be play time
[04:11]	<noiz>	yeah, i think im going to build my own soon
[04:11]	<Koron|out>	and it works fine for me
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[04:11]	<noiz>	yeah, pretty much constant play
[04:11]	<Koron|out>	did yo ujust download the binary?
[04:11]	<Koron|out>	from the wiki?
[04:11]	<noiz>	i downloaded it yesterday
[04:11]	<Koron>	the binary?
[04:11]	<JoshTriplett_>	noiz: Does that decrease if you use the MiFi?
[04:12]	<Koron>	myfi eats up juice
[04:12]	<noiz>	yeah, then its about 5+ hours
[04:12]	<Koron>	i would use the car adapter
[04:12]	<JoshTriplett_>	Right.
[04:12]	<JoshTriplett_>	Doesn't that come with the 20GB model?
[04:12]	<noiz>	yeah, its nice having that car adapter at no cost
[04:12]	<JoshTriplett_>	Cool.
[04:12]	<Koron>	let me take my name out of it and rebuild and then upload
[04:12]	<Koron>	maybe something is weird with that binary
[04:12]	<Koron>	i am lame and make my neuros firmware have my name in it :-p
[04:13]	<noiz>	yeah, i used to do that too
[04:13]	<noiz>	but my regular laptop is broken right now :(
[04:13]	<noiz>	so i dont do it any more
[04:14]	<Koron>	speaking of broken laptops
[04:14]	<Koron>	my hdd on my laptop made a very scary noise
[04:14]	<Koron>	then BSODed on me
[04:14]	<noiz>	that stinks
[04:14]	<Koron>	and wouldn't boot up until i left it off for a minute
[04:14]	<Koron>	:-/
[04:14]	<noiz>	with me, i keep getting these error messages about the cooling system...
[04:15]	<Koron>	well, it is under warranty still, but it did the same thing about a year ago
[04:15]	<Koron>	and calmed itself down
[04:15]	<noiz>	and stupid compusa has taken 2 weeks already and its still not fixed :(
[04:15]	<Koron>	i should probably get it replaced
[04:15]	<Koron>	i fried my serial port in the spring
[04:15]	<Koron>	got them to replace my entire motherboard
[04:15]	<noiz>	nice
[04:16]	<Koron>	wasn't my fault, still don
[04:16]	<Koron>	still don't know what happened
[04:16]	<Koron>	plugged in a device, made a scary noise and turned off
[04:16]	<Koron>	and smelled like burning
[04:16]	<Koron>	:-(
[04:16]	<noiz>	yeah, when mine started to smell like something was burning, thats when i knew i had to take it in
[04:17]	<Koron>	well
[04:17]	<Koron>	it miraculously worked fine
[04:17]	<Koron>	for everything
[04:17]	<Koron>	except the serial port
[04:17]	<Koron>	www.erikanderson.net
[04:17]	<Koron>	try that for car mode
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[04:18]	<noiz>	are all of the strings normal on your build?
[04:18]	<JoshTriplett>	How long do you think it would take someone to get used to the interface, compared to say an iPod? Considering solely the ease of use of the on-player interface.
[04:18]	<Koron>	yes, unmodified
[04:18]	<JoshTriplett>	(I realize that asking that in #neuros isn't exactly an unbiased comparison, but... :) )
[04:18]	<Koron>	straight from the cvs (garbage branch of course)
[04:18]	<noiz>	its pretty easy
[04:18]	<Koron>	i didn't have any problems with the interface
[04:18]	<noiz>	my friends and family members have been able to navigate around
[04:18]	<JoshTriplett>	Koron: Right, and you're talking about building your own firmware. :)
[04:18]	<JoshTriplett>	Koron: So that doesn't exactly help. :)
[04:19]	<Koron>	well, i figured out the interface before i messed with the firmware :-p
[04:19]	<JoshTriplett>	Koron: Gee.
[04:19]	<JoshTriplett>	:)
[04:19]	<Yono>	its not hard to build FW josh
[04:19]	<JoshTriplett>	Yono: For you, or for me.
[04:19]	<Yono>	you go to the console and type "make-d"
[04:19]	<Yono>	lol
[04:19]	<Koron>	yeah, there is a step-by-step guide
[04:19]	<Koron>	i ran into a couple of problems with linebreaks
[04:19]	<Koron>	but we got that worked out :)
[04:19]	<JoshTriplett>	I'm talking about for someone who is extremely non-tech-saavy.
[04:19]	<Koron>	i don't think it would be a problem
[04:19]	<JoshTriplett>	Do you think they'd find the interface trivially easy?
[04:19]	<Koron>	right joystick to select
[04:19]	<Koron>	left joystick to go back
[04:20]	<Koron>	up/down on the menu
[04:20]	<Koron>	easy as pie
[04:20]	<JoshTriplett>	Cool.
[04:20]	<noiz>	yeah, its pretty easy
[04:20]	<Yono>	Josh, do they know how to read a small manual with pictures?
[04:20]	<JoshTriplett>	Yono: If they have to read the manual, it's broken. :)
[04:20]	<noiz>	just like the flash demo of the neuros
[04:20]	<Yono>	cuz if so, that+forum=mastery
[04:20]	<JoshTriplett>	Yono: And they certainly won't have a clue about the forum. :)
[04:20]	<Koron>	the only part that wasn't immediately obvious to me was how to turn it on/off
[04:20]	<Yono>	lol, just like me
[04:20]	<Koron>	and that just involves holding down the play button
[04:21]	<Yono>	real men don't need manuals
[04:21]	<noiz>	yeah, but know they do have a power sign on the play button
[04:21]	<Koron>	well
[04:21]	<Koron>	i have an older version
[04:21]	<Koron>	but with the II it would make more sense
[04:21]	<JoshTriplett>	Alrighty, that helps a lot.
[04:21]	<Yono>	my N1 doesn't have a power button
[04:21]	<JoshTriplett>	Thanks again.
[04:21]	<Koron>	N2 has a power icon on the play button as well
[04:21]	<noiz>	yeah, with my older version people would try and turn it off by pressing the orange hisi button, so i would have a lot of recording
[04:22]	<JoshTriplett>	:)
[04:22]	<Yono>	has quit ["Download Gaim: gaim.sourceforge.net
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[04:23]	<noiz>	im out
[04:23]	<noiz>	later
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[04:28]	<Improv>	has joined #neuros
[04:28]	<Improv>	Hey all
[04:28]	<Improv>	Anyone live?
[04:28]	<noiz>	has joined #neuros
[04:28]	<noiz>	hey
[04:28]	<Improv>	Hey
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[04:28]	<Improv>	The filesystem on my neuros is corrupt -- what's the best way to fix it?
[04:29]	<noiz>	Koron: your build does the same thing
[04:29]	<Koron>	hm
[04:29]	<noiz>	i get an error when i try and go to car mode
[04:29]	<noiz>	reformat the hard drive
[04:29]	<Koron>	I have a N1, so I don't know...garbage has an N2 though
[04:29]	<Improv>	noiz: What do I need to do after reformatting?
[04:29]	<Koron>	but it turns off when i rip out the power cord (only way it knows it isn't getting power in N1)
[04:29]	<Koron>	then load all of your mp3s back on
[04:29]	<noiz>	yep
[04:29]	<Koron>	what software do you use for syncing?
[04:30]	<Improv>	NeurosDBM.jar
[04:30]	<Koron>	yeah
[04:30]	<Koron>	then copy your mp3s back on
[04:30]	<noiz>	our maybe if you try and reinstall the firmware it might help
[04:30]	<Koron>	and do 'rebuild database'
[04:30]	<noiz>	or reformat the nand and see if that works
[04:30]	<Improv>	Koron: But doesn't the firmware live on the hard drive?
[04:30]	<Improv>	If I reformat, will it still even boot?
[04:30]	<Koron>	the firmware is in its own protected memory