Log from #neuros IRC channel

GarBage, with your latest firmware, is there a way to get it to show the battery icon by default rather than the voltage? I can do the down + lock trick, but it only stays like that until I cycle the power.

[06:44]

iswm: short answer, no

[06:44]

lol

[06:45]

long answer?

[06:45]

<iswm>

Any somewhat simple changes I can make to the source to do it?

[06:45]

iswm: but i think BernardCaffarelli's build keeps that flashy icons

[06:46]

I dont mean to interupt, but where can you find BernardCaffarelli's ?

[06:46]

iswm: indeed, it should be a one liner

[06:46]

SmrtJustin: try our wiki

[06:47]

its french though isnt it?

[06:47]

nvm

[06:48]

will the woid_en.hex have to be renamed to woid.hex?

[06:48]

<iswm>

Hmm, ok. Maybe I'll mess around with it next time I boot into windows. I like having that more visual reference of how much battey life I have left, but it's a hassle to down + lock every time I turn my neuros on.

[06:48]

yeah

[06:49]

Playing Stream: < South Park - Mr Garrison Merry Fucking Xmas (Xmas in Frisco: SomaFM's eclectic holiday mix. Not for the easily offended. [SomaFM]) > [kara.fast-serv.com

[06:50]

tune in to that, its hilarious

[06:50]

iswm: so you're hacking on your new toy?

[06:51]

<iswm>

Not quite yet. Just got it today, so I want to get a bit more used to it before I start any little projects.

[06:52]

iswm: i highly recommend you keep the official firmware on it, at least for the first days, so you get to it

[06:53]

aww, I wanted to put it on Christmas Morning lol

[06:53]

haha didn't you already change it?

[06:53]

I havent got too on mine

[06:53]

not allowed to open it till christmas

[06:53]

but my bro got to mess with it

[06:54]

too == to*

[06:54]

<iswm>

They didn't seem horribly different to me. Think it's really worth switching back to the offical firmware

[06:54]

we know you can't open your's yet SmrtJustin, i meant iswm :)

oh

sorry

;)

you can always go back cant you?

[06:55]

yep

[06:56]

then why wait?

[06:57]

first, by loading unofficial firmware you're voiding your warranty

[06:57]

GarBage: i have some ideas about the firmware

[06:57]

void?

[06:58]

who'd be the wiser if you just put the original back on?

[06:58]

second, you should tinker with the official firmware first, see its pros and cons, and then, if you want, do the switch, and compare both

[06:58]

hmm, probably a good idea

[06:59]

I dont know, I'm really itching to put the opensource fw on

[06:59]

but of course, it's a typical do-what-i-say-not-what-i-do situation

[06:59]

lol

[06:59]

'cos i've had my firmware tweaked and compiled about a month before my neuros arrived

[07:00]

how many people play songs sequential except when playing an album or playlist?

[07:00]

not me

[07:00]

<iswm>

Void that warranty? Yikes, that seems a bit counter productive. Why release source, but void the warranty when someone modifies it?

[07:00]

<iswm>

And my typing is rather bad tonight.

[07:01]

does anyone else think it's a good idea to make neuros automatically play random except when playing a single album?

[07:02]

i'm always on random

[07:02]

i like playing albums sequential but everything else random

[07:03]

i was thinking about adding a "1 of 15" or "1/15" during display of songs in album mode

[07:04]

I only play albums sequentially. :)

[07:04]

truth is, the neuros does not know when it is playing only a full album

[07:04]

as in, that's all I play. Albums.

[07:04]

for those of us who also use cd players occas and remember songs by song #

[07:05]

my sorune does that ;)

[07:05]

I havent used CDs in so long lol

[07:05]

i use sorune too but don't remember that option

[07:06]

not an actual option, i've messed with the code

[07:06]

ahh

[07:06]

cool

[07:06]

so GarBage, you use Sorune too?

[07:06]

yeah

[07:06]

hmm

[07:06]

do you just add the # to the beginning of the title tag?

[07:07]

yeas, i failed to update the database structure without breaking backwards compatibility

[07:07]

so, i just add a leadin ##

[07:08]

that's easy enough to do but then xmms & other player display "02 02 xxxx x x x xxxx"

[07:09]

yeah

[07:09]

humm... i add it only to the neuros db, not the file tag itself

[07:10]

so how do you change Sorune to do this?

[07:10]

sounds cool

[07:10]

all my oggs are named "01_title" & i use a bash script i wrote to split that into track # & name for ogg tags.

[07:10]

err... by editing perl from hell on a text editor?

[07:11]

GarBage: oh I was curious if you had a patch...

[07:11]

guess not lol

[07:12]

does the neuros db store track# or you're just adding it to the beginning of the trackname

[07:12]

not a patch, but i have the sources, they are in Spanish too, but if you want them i think i could post it somewhere

[07:12]

mbryner: the latter

[07:12]

GarBage: sure

[07:13]

since you're just adding it to the beginning of the trackname that's easy for me to write a script for i guesss

[07:13]

mbryner: i don't change the files themselves, nor their name

[07:14]

mbryner: hes changing their entry in the database.

[07:14]

i just change the way the are added to the database, by adding a ## trailing number to the name of the tracks

[07:15]

hmm

[07:15]

do you get the ## from that track number in the id3 tags?

[07:15]

how do you use that to sort w/ then?

[07:16]

or you don't at all?

[07:17]

(I'm slightly confused)

[07:19]

i'm posting the sources on the wiki

[07:19]

i just thought it would be relatively easy for me to add album info on the neuros, like track 1/15, etc., but it appears more difficult than i though

[07:19]

*thought

[07:19]

hope that will answer your questions

[07:20]

thanks

[07:20]

i'll take a look

[07:20]

neuros-firmware.sourceforge.net

[07:21]

There's only a handful of people hacking on the firmware, right?

[07:22]

what do I do with the file?

[07:22]

not familiar with .7z

[07:22]

www.7zip.org

[07:22]

(how n00bish do I sound)?

[07:24]

gets p7zip

[07:25]

that's ok smrtjustin, i've been running unix for 10+ years + neuros for 5-6 mos and am gettin p7zip right now too! :)

[07:26]

lol

[07:26]

I love gentoo and portage

[07:26]

chreekat: from what i've heard from the latest headlines, we're close to the chinese population, still a long run though

[07:27]

for a "Why the hell do you use 7zip topic" read the second one here:

[07:27]

neuros-firmware.sourceforge.net

[07:30]

Heh. Well, the reason I didn't think much was going on was because I didnt' think many people had access to the proper compiler.

[07:31]

Which headline are you talking about? I'm trying to find good info on the web right now, but not doing a good job of it

[07:31]

I found the wiki, at least

[07:32]

chreekat: and you were right on first instance, i was being sarcastic :)

ah

heh

ok

Doesn't look like there's much work on the gcc port, either. Is that due to a lack of motivation, or is there some big hurdle scaring people off?

[07:34]

<iswm>

Hmm, what's with sourne saying all my oggs are unsupported?

[07:34]

GarBage: I should be looking in the file: sorune right?

[07:36]

SmrtJustin: i can't remember, just play a diff with the 0.4 sources and see what was changed

[07:36]

Only in /home/janteau/neuros/sorune-gb: sorunecl

[07:36]

Only in /home/janteau/neuros/sorune-gb: sorunerc.cfg

[07:37]

is that right?

[07:37]

chreekat: it takes time, and skilled gcc hackers, both are hard to find at a time

[07:38]

SmrtJustin: nope, diff on existing files on both sides

[07:38]

I thought thats what I did

[07:38]

I did: diff /path/dir1 /path/dir2

[07:41]

< # Ugh, yet another thing that the firmware doesn't support! :(

[07:41]

< # Actually, the menus will come up sorted differently as long as songs is on

[07:41]

< # top, but the behaviour is erratic at best. I'm leaving this here in the hope

[07:41]

s

[07:41]

< # that some day the firmware will work.

[07:41]

GarBage: Well, I wish I was a skilled gcc hacker, then. :-/

[07:42]

GarBage: I really dont know what I'm looking for

[07:42]

gcc is an enormous project. Clearly I wouldn't have to understand the whole thing to make the port, but I don't even know what to read that might tell me where to start.

[07:44]

SmrtJustin: diff both mainlib.pm

[07:44]

if ($mp3->{'TRACKNUM'} ne "") {

[07:44]

$retHash{'title'} = $retHash{'tracknumber'} .' - '. $retHash{'title'};

[07:44]

}

[07:44]

I dont know perl

[07:45]

how does it get the track number?

[07:46]

read the code, that's all i can say, it uses CPAN standard pm libs for that

[07:47]

does it pull the track number out of the air, or out of the id3 tags?

[07:47]

haha, "any"? Is that supposed to be

[07:47]

er

[07:47]

and?

[07:49]

chreekat: yeah, gcc hacking is far beyond my knowledge & capabilities too

[07:49]

<iswm>

Ok uh, anyone have any idea why my neuros would go read-only for some reason?

[07:50]

permissions?, mount -o remount,ro ?

[07:50]

<iswm>

Well, it was all find and dandy a few minutes ago.

[07:50]

<iswm>

And nothing has changed in my /etc/fstab

[07:51]

so by adding track numbers, this allows you to sort albums by track numbers?

[07:51]

correct?

[07:52]

an album by the track number of its tracks, correct

[07:52]

given they're properly tagged

[07:53]

hmm that sounds cool

[07:53]

I'll use your sorune then

[07:53]

so the neuros already has the ability to play albums at a time?

[07:54]

err... what? at a time?

[07:55]

sort out albums*

[07:55]

oh I see in the neuros demo

[07:56]

GarBage: is the sorune you posted, is the source in spanish?

[07:56]

first is == in

[07:56]

of course

[07:57]

but the program itself is in english?

[07:58]

err.. nope?

[07:58]

i don't care about the gui, i use the command line

[07:58]

oh

[07:58]

when I use the gui its in english?

[07:59]

dunno, could be

[07:59]

haven't tried it lately

[07:59]

how do you use it in the command line?

[07:59]

nvm

[07:59]

sorune --rebuild --sync

[07:59]

looks like the command line is in english too?

[08:00]

are you sure you're running mine?

[08:01]

yes

[08:01]

well, then mine is in spanish, that i can assure you

[08:01]

<[Chameleon]>

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odd

gotta go

c ya

ttyl

waves

its all in english

odd

maybe cuz you have a different default language?

[08:09]

so what did you all buy, exactly? 20G? 30G? flash+HD bundles?

[08:09]

20G here

[08:11]

<iswm>

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[08:11]

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[08:12]

Anyone get the Shure earphones?

[08:12]

didnt have enough money ;'(

[08:12]

I've heard they're very good

[08:12]

<iswm>

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ok I should go

lol

night all

later

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[08:18]

<iswm>

Wow, this is really bugging me

[08:19]

<iswm>

Things have decided to go read only.. And rebuilding the database won't gey my neuros to see the songs on it.

[08:22]

by 'things' do you mean the neuros HD as viewed through your computer?

[08:22]

<iswm>

Apparently

[08:22]

<iswm>

Nothing has changed in my /etc/fstab.. Just seemed to happen out of nowhere.

[08:27]

iswm: i'm leaving, but as a final thought, check your logs (/var/log/...) for clues to what's happening.

[08:28]

good luck

[08:41]

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[08:58]

<iswm>

Ugh

[08:58]

<iswm>

This is not good

[08:59]

<iswm>

It starts out fine.. Then after I try and rebuild the database the filesystem goes read-only

[09:37]

<[Chameleon]>

iswm: that used to happen to me a few kernels ago

[09:37]

<[Chameleon]>

iswm: the only thing that would fix it was a reboot

[09:37]

<iswm>

A reboot didn't fix it heh.

[09:38]

<[Chameleon]>

sucky

[09:38]

<[Chameleon]>

anything helpful in dmesg ?

[09:38]

<iswm>

I htink it started happening when I switched to GarBage's firmware.. So I just installed the official firmware again and and rebuilding the database.

[09:38]

<iswm>

So hopefully this'll help

[09:38]

<[Chameleon]>

the latest GarBage?

[09:38]

<iswm>

Yeah

[09:38]

<[Chameleon]>

something.7 ?

[09:38]

<iswm>

Right

[09:38]

<[Chameleon]>

it's got problem.s

[09:39]

<[Chameleon]>

recordings won't go into the DB

[09:39]

<[Chameleon]>

for one

[09:39]

<[Chameleon]>

I'm running his previous release

[09:39]

<[Chameleon]>

the .6

[09:39]

<[Chameleon]>

it's been good since October or so

[09:39]

<[Chameleon]>

I tried the .7 and found the recordings !> DB problem and reverted

[09:39]

<iswm>

Which sync manager do you use?

[09:42]

<iswm>

Ugh

[09:42]

<iswm>

That didn't fix it

[09:42]

<[Chameleon]>

NDBM

[09:42]

<iswm>

It was working fine.. Then out of no where... bah

[09:42]

<[Chameleon]>

weak

[09:42]

<iswm>

Oh, good

[09:42]

<[Chameleon]>

try a NAND format??

[09:43]

<iswm>

Yeah

[09:43]

<[Chameleon]>

I've been trying to compile NSM in Linux... >;-)

[09:43]

<[Chameleon]>

I'm close, but I've hit a road-block.

[09:43]

<[Chameleon]>

brb

[09:43]

<[Chameleon]>

is away: I'm busy

[09:43]

<iswm>

NDBM is giving me an error after I build the database..

[09:44]

<iswm>

It wants to try and make audio.mdb

[09:44]

<iswm>

And but no such file or directory

[09:45]

<iswm>

Hmm, bingo

[09:45]

<iswm>

FAT: Filesystem panic (dev uba1)

[09:45]

<iswm>

fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain (i_pos 30870309)

[09:47]

<[Chameleon]>

hmm

[09:47]

<iswm>

Bad file somewhere?

[09:47]

<[Chameleon]>

bad cluster probably

[09:47]

<[Chameleon]>

had a crash lately?

[09:48]

<[Chameleon]>

maybe you should fsck it

[09:48]

<iswm>

I had some freezes earlier. Had to shut down the bad way.

[09:48]

<[Chameleon]>

probably the cause

[09:49]

<[Chameleon]>

the cluster(s) is/are probably not truly bad

[09:49]

<[Chameleon]>

unmount and run an fsck repair

[09:49]

<[Chameleon]>

I don't guarantee the safety of your data though

[09:49]

<[Chameleon]>

is away: I'm busy

[09:50]

<[Chameleon]>

not really away yet

[09:51]

<[Chameleon]>

ok, now I'm going away

[09:51]

<[Chameleon]>

going to bed

[09:52]

<iswm>

Hrm

[09:52]

<iswm>

How do I do that if it's unmounted?

[09:53]

<iswm>

Er, never mind

[09:59]

<[Chameleon]>

is away: ZZzzz

[10:07]

<iswm>

Yeah.. There's problems..

[10:07]

<iswm>

Looks like I'm just going to format it.

[10:14]

<iswm>

Ok, that worked

[10:14]

<iswm>

Guess I'll just have to copy everything back over in the morning.

[12:14]

<GarBage_>

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[17:14]

After looking over some of the code I think I will implement a few changes which sould be quite straight foreward but I wanted to see what everyones thoughts are or if someone is working on it already. These are mainly changes I need but who knows...perhaps someone else does also. 1.) Implement mono recording for line in and 2.) if the attenuation will alow it (hardware part) to add at fixed...

[17:14]

...-20dB option on the line. and 3.) include all the above along with recording quality in an Recording options menue.

[17:21]

<unknown_lamer>

Mono recording is easy.

[17:21]

i know:)

[17:22]

<unknown_lamer>

Just sample the left channel only since mono equipment will only be sending stuff on the tip.

[17:23]

<unknown_lamer>

Mixing a stereo to mono signal is harder but there should be plenty of processor time left when recording to wav (maybe with MP3 but the Vorbis people said that the MP3 *en*coder took a lot of work by TI to write and get to work at all)

[17:23]

<unknown_lamer>

Which is why Monty never wrote a Vorbis encoder for the Neuros.

[17:23]

It should be quite trivial ... the codec is in place all that realy needs to be one is a flag and the some visual feedback ..oh yeah, and link the bars in the VU meter

[17:24]

<unknown_lamer>

Adding a new encoder?

[17:24]

<unknown_lamer>

The problem is the speed of the DSP.

[17:24]

<unknown_lamer>

Encoding Vorbis is processor intensive.

[17:24]

<unknown_lamer>

And the MP3 encoder works, barely. It requires several man years of development to get it to run in realtime @ 160kbps.

[17:25]

I know but I'm not sure it's important to mix stereo to mono,..what 's the point but pure mone would be nice ,..might perhaps work for 48kHz in flash memory..that ones is currently diasbaled

[17:40]

unknown_lamer: So, in general you yhinks it';s worth doing something - yet trivila - nicely or should I just make my own messy for personal use only version!?!

[17:44]

<eozl>

man, if you want it, chances are someone else will want it

[17:44]

<unknown_lamer>

GreatDay: Code it and send a patch.

[17:45]

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[17:49]

<eozl>

unknown_lamer, any qualitative idea how processor intensive flac encoding is, compared to mp3 and vorbis?

[17:50]

<unknown_lamer>

FLAC encoding isn't too intensive.

[17:50]

<unknown_lamer>

When encoding FLAC on my system (Dual AthlonMP 2800+, but the FLAC encoder is single threaded so it only uses one processor)

[17:51]

<unknown_lamer>

The limiting factor is the speed of my disk.

[17:51]

<eozl>

is flac output more than twice the size of mp3/vorbis?

[17:51]

<unknown_lamer>

Depends.

[17:51]

<unknown_lamer>

You can't get a fixed bitrate because it is lossless.

[17:51]

<eozl>

right

[17:51]

<unknown_lamer>

It all depends on the input signal and how much you try to compress it.

[17:51]

<unknown_lamer>

You at least get down to 70% of the input size, often more.

[17:53]

<unknown_lamer>

dips out to change his oil

[17:53]

I'd imagine flac output is huge

[17:55]

<eozl>

not at all: flac.sourceforge.net

[17:55]

<eozl>

those results are on systems vastly more powerful than the c54x :P, which is what i was wondering about

[17:56]

but the compressed datastream output is vastly bigger, right (5-6 times, I'd estimate)

[17:57]

<eozl>

looking at the compression ratios, again not at all

[17:58]

<eozl>

if it was, it wouldn't be a useful codec :P

[17:59]

well - the compression is about 2:1 for FLAC in these tests

[18:00]

but compression on the 160kbps MP3 codec is almost 9:1

[18:00]

(im not comparing CPU work done, just output datastream size)

[18:01]

<eozl>

whoa, yeah i see

[18:01]

<eozl>

i thought I saw mp3 somewhere on there but it isn't

[18:02]

they only compare lossless codecs

[18:03]

<eozl>

ah, i, idiot, saw 'ogg' and assumed

[18:06]

right - ogg is only a frame format; it can encapsulate many encoded frame types

[18:06]

ogg has come to mean 'vorbis', but in fact there are many ogg codecs

[18:07]

<eozl>

ahh, i see

[18:09]

even video formats, like Theora

[18:10]

<eozl>

something like, the container holds information on frames, but the codec decides what to put in there?

[18:11]

right

[18:11]

I think, thechnically, ogg is a transport mechanism

[18:12]

Ogg is the name of Xiph.org's container format for audio, video, and metadata.

[18:12]

(from the web page)

[18:16]

<eozl>

so if you want marathon recordings, pray mp3 works out

[18:16]

pretty much

[18:16]

<eozl>

if you do a bunch of short ones... flac recording and then non-real-time flac2mp3 might work

[18:17]

truth be told, I've pretty much geven up on the Neuros as a viable recording platform

[18:17]

<eozl>

how is that?

[18:17]

it's just too difficult for me to use and not as reliable as minidisc

[18:18]

I can't set levels very well, the start/stop lag is unacceptable

[18:18]

<eozl>

levels?

[18:18]

gain levels

[18:18]

I don't trust the animated VU meters

[18:18]

<eozl>

ah heh

[18:19]

but - that's not why I bought my Neuros; it's an awesome mp3 player

[18:19]

<eozl>

if you want accurate gain control, doesn't that need to be in hardware ?

[18:19]

<eozl>

analog controllers

[18:19]