[00:02]	<unknown_lamer>	format
[00:03]	<SmrtJustin>	just did
[00:03]	<SmrtJustin>	nand?
[00:03]	<SmrtJustin>	or hd?
[00:04]	<unknown_lamer>	hd
[00:04]	<unknown_lamer>	The hd seems corrupted.
[00:04]	<unknown_lamer>	And are you using GNU/Linux or Windows?
[00:04]	<SmrtJustin>	alright did that
[00:04]	<SmrtJustin>	Linux
[00:05]	<unknown_lamer>	alright
[00:05]	<unknown_lamer>	stock kernel?
[00:05]	<unknown_lamer>	that came with your distro
[00:05]	<SmrtJustin>	I'm using like 2.6.9
[00:05]	<unknown_lamer>	Did it come with your system
[00:05]	<unknown_lamer>	or did you compile it yourself?
[00:05]	<SmrtJustin>	its gentoo, so I compiled it
[00:05]	<unknown_lamer>	stock config or your config?
[00:05]	<unknown_lamer>	that's what I'm getting at.
[00:06]	<SmrtJustin>	my config
[00:06]	<unknown_lamer>	are the names still fucked up?
[00:07]	<SmrtJustin>	I deleted them
[00:07]	<SmrtJustin>	but now the neuros thinks the songs arent on there
[00:07]	<unknown_lamer>	because they aren't
[00:07]	<unknown_lamer>	format the hd
[00:08]	<unknown_lamer>	check your kernel config
[00:08]	<unknown_lamer>	to make sure you have the windows codepage compile in
[00:08]	<unknown_lamer>	otherwise nothing will work
[00:08]	<SmrtJustin>	it worked before on my old neuros
[00:08]	<unknown_lamer>	ok.
[00:08]	<unknown_lamer>	did you make sure to unmount before you unplugged the neuros?
[00:08]	<SmrtJustin>	ls /mnt/usb/music/Aerosmith/
[00:08]	<SmrtJustin>	Aerosmith - Angel.mp3 Aerosmith - Dream On.mp3
[00:08]	<SmrtJustin>	yes
[00:08]	<unknown_lamer>	and try mounting it -o sync
[00:08]	<unknown_lamer>	and rebuild
[00:09]	<unknown_lamer>	if you have UMSDOS support compiled into your kernel build a new one.
[00:09]	<unknown_lamer>	that could be what is fucking everything up.
[00:11]	<SmrtJustin>	now ndbm does it doesnt exisst
[00:11]	<SmrtJustin>	exist*
[00:11]	<SmrtJustin>	but ls /mnt/usb shows it all
[00:11]	<SmrtJustin>	ls /mnt/usb
[00:11]	<SmrtJustin>	??id?db ?e?s?o?1.txt ?k?k?1.sn ?oid_s?1 ?u?ic WOID_SYNC ndbm sn.txt
[00:12]	<SmrtJustin>	should I maybe reboot?
[00:12]	<unknown_lamer>	no
[00:12]	<unknown_lamer>	Either your usb controller is messed up
[00:12]	<unknown_lamer>	or you need to reformat your HD
[00:12]	<unknown_lamer>	reformat your HD
[00:12]	<unknown_lamer>	On the Neuros itself
[00:12]	<SmrtJustin>	I did already
[00:12]	<unknown_lamer>	on the neuros?
[00:12]	<SmrtJustin>	yes
[00:12]	<SmrtJustin>	1+5+play
[00:12]	<unknown_lamer>	I think your codepage settings are messed up
[00:13]	<SmrtJustin>	idk why it worked before
[00:13]	<unknown_lamer>	I dunno but I have to go
[00:13]	<SmrtJustin>	alright...
[00:13]	<eozl>	SmrtJustin, your linux box is showing screwed up filenames for usb-mounted drives?
[00:13]	<SmrtJustin>	yep
[00:14]	<eozl>	common problem, what kernel you using
[00:14]	<SmrtJustin>	2.6.9
[00:14]	<SmrtJustin>	I should just go use windows
[00:14]	<eozl>	fork windows
[00:14]	<eozl>	let me send you my .config
[00:14]	<SmrtJustin>	well I'll recompile later
[00:14]	<unknown_lamer>	I've never had any problems
[00:14]	<unknown_lamer>	ever.
[00:14]	<SmrtJustin>	I have the 2.6.10 source
[00:14]	<eozl>	there's plenty of room for problems
[00:14]	<unknown_lamer>	2.4 and 2.6.x
[00:14]	<eozl>	you got lucky
[00:14]	<unknown_lamer>	Did I?
[00:14]	<eozl>	luck, expertise, it's all the same ain't it
[00:15]	<unknown_lamer>	I just mount with the normal options
[00:15]	<unknown_lamer>	my old USB chipset was buggy
[00:15]	<unknown_lamer>	so I mounted with sync
[00:15]	<unknown_lamer>	but that was it
[00:15]	<eozl>	some kernle configurations work better than others
[00:15]	<unknown_lamer>	when I switched to usb 2 I stopped doing sync
[00:15]	<eozl>	it worked for me through two installs, but on the third i had to struggle for it to work
[00:15]	<unknown_lamer>	As long as you have the right code pags and UMSDOS disabled then you are fine
[00:15]	<eozl>	and the gentoo forums are filled with various problems including screwed up filenames
[00:15]	<eozl>	ah
[00:15]	<unknown_lamer>	I see.
[00:15]	<unknown_lamer>	Gentoo.
[00:15]	<unknown_lamer>	I use Debian.
[00:16]	<eozl>	i didn't read anything about either
[00:16]	<unknown_lamer>	A real distro.
[00:16]	<unknown_lamer>	I blame Gentoo.
[00:16]	<iswm>	unknown_lamer, you lookin' to fight?
[00:16]	<unknown_lamer>	No.
[00:16]	<unknown_lamer>	I just hate Gentoo.
[00:16]	<iswm>	I hate you.
[00:16]	<unknown_lamer>	The users are mostly like fucking ricers.
[00:16]	<iswm>	Bite you tongue.
[00:16]	<unknown_lamer>	With their god damn OMFG I SAVED 512BYTES OF RAM
[00:16]	<iswm>	Heh
[00:16]	<unknown_lamer>	it's like honda civics and their damn stickers
[00:16]	<iswm>	I hope you're joking.
[00:16]	<SmrtJustin>	I'll go do it on windows for now
[00:16]	<eozl>	nobody i know who does gentoo cares about ram
[00:16]	<SmrtJustin>	its not a huge deal
[00:16]	<unknown_lamer>	you still only have 80HP and my camaro with its shitty 140HP can still kick your ass.
[00:17]	<eozl>	cuz they are all crazy hackers
[00:17]	<unknown_lamer>	I have a dual AthlonMP 2800+
[00:17]	<eozl>	and will pwn debian users any day
[00:17]	<unknown_lamer>	Bullshit
[00:17]	<unknown_lamer>	I like my system to sit at idle most of the time.
[00:17]	<unknown_lamer>	I could run Gentoo if I wanted to.
[00:17]	<unknown_lamer>	But I don't feel like using something inferior.
[00:17]	<iswm>	unknown_lamer, seriously. I hope you're joking. You're a total moron if you aren't.
[00:17]	<unknown_lamer>	whatever
[00:17]	<eozl>	or spends too much time reading flames
[00:18]	<unknown_lamer>	I like to pretend that Gentoo isn't real.
[00:18]	<unknown_lamer>	Gentoo is amateurish.
[00:18]	<iswm>	Now you're just trolling,
[00:18]	<unknown_lamer>	No.
[00:18]	<eozl>	i mentally assume gentoo is pretty much the only linux worth having, but i don't say it out loud
[00:18]	<eozl>	i still tell people 'do fedora, do ubuntu, etc.'
[00:18]	<unknown_lamer>	I've been running the same Debian install for five yeas now :)
[00:19]	<eozl>	at work, we've been running a fedora install for 5 years, with 5 years uptime
[00:19]	<eozl>	whta does that mean? nothing
[00:19]	<unknown_lamer>	ha ha
[00:19]	<iswm>	I've been running the same gentoo install for 2 years. Big whoop.
[00:19]	<unknown_lamer>	fedora hasn't existed for five years.
[00:19]	<unknown_lamer>	the install was originally on a 166Mhz p1
[00:19]	<unknown_lamer>	and has survived massive hardware and configuration changes.
[00:19]	<unknown_lamer>	apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[00:20]	<unknown_lamer>	without six hours of compiling to get that little ounce of performance that isn't real.
[00:20]	<zack>	ah, if only upgrading fedora were that simple
[00:20]	<iswm>	emerge sync && emerge -uD world (again, big whoop)
[00:20]	<unknown_lamer>	Yeah, that's why I gave up on redhat
[00:20]	<unknown_lamer>	iswm: oh noes you forgot to set your USE flags to properly optimize out 0.00001% of performance
[00:20]	<zack>	how is it "performance" if your compile time exceeds the gain by several orders of magnitude?
[00:20]	<eozl>	so, let me get this straight, you don't like gentoo users, and you don't like compiling
[00:20]	<iswm>	unknown_lamer, my god, you're an idiot.
[00:21]	<unknown_lamer>	Oh I compile plenty often.
[00:21]	<iswm>	You just assume everyone uses gentoo for a performence increase?
[00:21]	<unknown_lamer>	my own software.
[00:21]	<unknown_lamer>	meh.
[00:21]	<unknown_lamer>	I was never impressed by Gentoo.
[00:21]	<eozl>	well, i'm a gentoo user, and i don't mind compiling, and i'm pretty sure you won't hate my operating environment
[00:21]	<eozl>	well, that's your experience
[00:21]	<unknown_lamer>	If you aren't out to get that artificial performance boost then just use Debian.
[00:21]	<eozl>	there's plenty of people who have found gentoo worth it
[00:21]	<zack>	unknown_lamer: there are other reason to use gentoo.
[00:22]	<unknown_lamer>	Like what?
[00:22]	<eozl>	forstarters, The debian install handbook isn't 80 pages long
[00:22]	<iswm>	unknown_lamer, I've never spent 6 hours compiling anything. I can do a full install in ~2 hours.
[00:22]	<unknown_lamer>	Install doesn't matter.
[00:22]	<unknown_lamer>	You do it once.
[00:22]	<zack>	unknown_lamer: to get Xorg is one.
[00:22]	<eozl>	yes it does, when stuff screws up, it sure helps to know how it got to that point
[00:22]	<iswm>	unknown_lamer, usually compiling only takes a matter of seconds (except _really_ big things, which usually don't take more than an hour)
[00:22]	<unknown_lamer>	all of KDE?
[00:22]	<eozl>	i can install gentoo on any computer using a floppy and a 10meg bz2 download
[00:22]	<zack>	unknown_lamer: to take advantage of an amd64 machine is another.
[00:23]	<unknown_lamer>	Ok. I understand AMD64. That's it.
[00:23]	<unknown_lamer>	There are xorg debs
[00:23]	<unknown_lamer>	in the subversion tree on necrotic
[00:23]	<zack>	unknown_lamer: they're not in Debian though.
[00:23]	<zack>	it's irrelevant.
[00:23]	<zack>	there's also an amd64 port of Debian, but that's not official either.
[00:23]	<unknown_lamer>	The xorg Debian package will be usable on 13 hardware architectures are four kernels when it's ready.
[00:24]	<unknown_lamer>	(Linux, Hurd, KFreeBSD, and KNetBSD)
[00:24]	<SmrtJustin>	hmm still not working in windows
[00:24]	<eozl>	debian doesn't have xorg stuff?
[00:24]	<unknown_lamer>	I like having the same environment on every one of my machines
[00:24]	<unknown_lamer>	eozl: No because XF4.3 is more important for sarge.
[00:24]	<iswm>	unknown_lamer is an idiot. There it's over. Stop
[00:24]	<SmrtJustin>	the songs are on there and ndbm notices them, but the neuros doesnt
[00:24]	<zack>	you're changing the subject, unknown_lamer
[00:24]	<unknown_lamer>	whatever.
[00:24]	<eozl>	well, that's another thing most people don't need: my server environment better be damned different than my laptop environment
[00:24]	<unknown_lamer>	Why?
[00:24]	<zack>	whether or not you care about the reasons i gave are irrelevant
[00:25]	<unknown_lamer>	Why wouldn't you want the same package tools?
[00:25]	<zack>	s/are/is/
[00:25]	<eozl>	because the server runs as little as possible, the laptop as much as possible, what kind of lame question is that?
[00:25]	<unknown_lamer>	But what about the package tools?
[00:25]	<unknown_lamer>	Debian as an OS works fine everywhere.
[00:25]	<eozl>	so does gentoos
[00:25]	<zack>	for the record, I use Debian because it works well for me where others haven't. But everyone isn't me.
[00:25]	<eozl>	yeah i don't know where you get off going all fanatical on us unknown_lamer
[00:26]	<unknown_lamer>	eozl: Tell my Hurd box that.
[00:26]	<zack>	unknown_lamer: you have a hurd box? how well is it working?
[00:26]	<unknown_lamer>	zack: now that the 2G fs limit is gone? fairly well.
[00:26]	<zack>	sweet
[00:26]	<zack>	X work?
[00:26]	<unknown_lamer>	zack: the new console is pretty cool
[00:26]	<unknown_lamer>	zack: sometimes
[00:26]	<zack>	hehe
[00:27]	* zack  really wants the hurd to work out
[00:27]	<unknown_lamer>	It will.
[00:27]	<unknown_lamer>	Well, assuming l4hurd works.
[00:27]	<SmrtJustin>	GRRR!
[00:27]	<zack>	i know. i meant before i stop caring :)
[00:27]	<unknown_lamer>	hah.
[00:27]	<zack>	but for now i have a working kernel, so i'm ok
[00:27]	<unknown_lamer>	Eventually we shall be free from the tyranny of Linux and be able to run GNU :)
[00:27]	<SmrtJustin>	its making all these crazy files on its HD?
[00:28]	<zack>	better get started on the GNU X Server then
[00:28]	<SmrtJustin>	like: .E.S.O.1.TXT
[00:28]	<unknown_lamer>	zack: it's still the GNU OS
[00:28]	<SmrtJustin>	where the .s = [] (squares)
[00:28]	<unknown_lamer>	SmrtJustin: run chkdsk and do a bad block scan
[00:28]	<unknown_lamer>	zack: and that lisp based display system will one day exist ...
[00:28]	<zack>	unknown_lamer: it's a GNU OS now too, minus the kernel and four hundred other things ;)
[00:28]	<unknown_lamer>	zack: Nah, just the kernel.
[00:28]	<SmrtJustin>	unknown_lamer: how?
[00:28]	<unknown_lamer>	zack: X is optional
[00:29]	<unknown_lamer>	SmrtJustin: ok. just format it
[00:29]	<unknown_lamer>	SmrtJustin: and do a bad block scan while formatting
[00:29]	<SmrtJustin>	from the neuros' menu?
[00:29]	<unknown_lamer>	afaik that's the only way on windows (note: I last used Windows in 1999)
[00:29]	<SmrtJustin>	again
[00:29]	<zack>	unknown_lamer: so is almost everything else, then. there's no good definition of 'operating system'
[00:30]	<unknown_lamer>	zack: For a UNIX-compatible OS you need...
[00:30]	<unknown_lamer>	zack: what GNU has. So it's an OS.
[00:30]	* unknown_lamer  goes to the calug
[00:30]	<zack>	unknown_lamer: i'm using GNU, i don't care about UNIX ;P
[00:30]	<SmrtJustin>	Format File System or Format Media?
[00:30]	<unknown_lamer>	SmrtJustin: do it from the windows machine
[00:30]	<SmrtJustin>	how?
[00:30]	<unknown_lamer>	with the format tool?
[00:30]	<unknown_lamer>	it should be in accessories somewhere
[00:31]	<unknown_lamer>	at least it was in win95
[00:31]	* unknown_lamer  leaves for calug
[00:31]	<zack>	the firmware still can't build with gcc, right?
[00:31]	<SmrtJustin>	this is gonna take awhile
[00:33]	<SmrtJustin>	zack: nope
[00:37]	<zack>	i guess that's good, since that means i can't hack on it yet. must... do... work!
[00:39]	<SmrtJustin>	Formatting this from windows is soooo slow....
[00:48]	<Yono>	eozl: look towards the bottom of the patent page
[00:49]	<Yono>	Also illustrated in FIG. 3, is the player's internal digitally tuned, FM tuner 39. The tuner 39 can be used independent of the players' other functions as a stand alone unit. Alternatively it can be used by the player's CPLD 42 to synthesize frequencies or to monitor FM transmission and interference.
[00:49]	<Yono>	The various functions of the player may also be wirelessly controlled by the remote control shown in FIG. 4 using dual tone frequency signaling (DTMF) through a keyboard control panel 40.
[00:49]	<Yono>	I wish I could see the pics
[00:49]	<nollidj>	they're not on the uspto page?
[00:49]	<Yono>	nope :(
[00:49]	<Yono>	patft.uspto.gov
[00:50]	<nollidj>	my father's a patent attorney. i'll ask him if there's any way to get a more complete look at the patent
[00:50]	<nollidj>	umn
[00:50]	<nollidj>	you do know there's an "images" link, right?
[00:51]	<nollidj>	i think it leads to scans of the patent, from other patents i've looked at. i think they'r TIFF, though
[00:51]	<Yono>	yea
[00:51]	<Yono>	I can't view them
[00:51]	<nollidj>	ah, ok
[00:51]	<Yono>	I just get blank pages
[00:52]	<Yono>	unknown_lamer: are you up for some hardcore reading?
[00:52]	<SmrtJustin>	GRRR!
[00:52]	<SmrtJustin>	still no luck
[00:53]	<SmrtJustin>	the songs are on there
[00:53]	<SmrtJustin>	but my neuros wont read them
[00:53]	<nollidj>	Yono, you can pull down the images with wget and then view them...
[00:53]	<SmrtJustin>	ndbm sees the songs
[00:54]	<Yono>	where can I get wget?
[00:54]	<Yono>	nvm, I'll google it
[00:55]	<SmrtJustin>	NSM WONT WORK EITHER
[00:55]	<SmrtJustin>	GRRRRRRRRRR
[00:56]	<SmrtJustin>	0x5890
[00:57]	<Yono>	wget didn't work
[00:57]	<Yono>	the pic just ended up as the quicktime logo
[00:58]	<nollidj>	yono, hang on
[00:58]	<nollidj>	ok
[00:58]	<nollidj>	what platform are you on?
[00:58]	<Yono>	windows
[00:58]	<nollidj>	i grabbed and renamed all the images
[00:58]	<nollidj>	wow
[00:58]	<nollidj>	huh
[00:58]	<nollidj>	ok, hang on a tic
[00:58]	<Yono>	rub it in :-P
[00:58]	<nollidj>	no, i figured it'd Just Work fo ryou
[00:58]	<Yono>	want to send the pics to me?
[00:59]	<nollidj>	i'm about to
[00:59]	<nollidj>	can't dcc
[00:59]	<nollidj>	so i'm putting them on webspace
[00:59]	<GarBage>	hi there
[00:59]	<nollidj>	this is probably in violation of some law
[00:59]	<Yono>	hey garbage
[00:59]	<iswm>	SmrtJustin, wow, you're just seeing no end of this. I hope you figure it out, because your situation totally SUCKS right now.
[00:59]	<GarBage>	Yono: dya like this?
[00:59]	<GarBage>	neuros-firmware.sourceforge.net
[00:59]	<GarBage>	?
[00:59]	<Yono>	I found lots of old documentation
[00:59]	<SmrtJustin>	iswm: I know
[00:59]	<SmrtJustin>	I cant get it to notice the db
[00:59]	<SmrtJustin>	I've even formatted the disk
[00:59]	<nollidj>	this is going to be a tarball of tifs
[01:00]	<nollidj>	ok, should be www.geocities.com
[01:00]	<SmrtJustin>	Why would the neuros be making funky file names, and not noticing its DB?
[01:01]	<SmrtJustin>	bad firmware?
[01:02]	<Yono>	thats awesome garbage
[01:02]	<SmrtJustin>	it keeps making wierd folders and files
[01:02]	<Yono>	hmm, it seems to cut off, any idea why?
[01:02]	<Yono>	img123.exs.cx
[01:03]	<GarBage>	its 1280x1024
[01:03]	<GarBage>	your desktop is smaller that that
[01:03]	<Yono>	damn, thats why
[01:03]	<Yono>	could you size down one to 1024 by 768 without totally mashing it like I would?
[01:04]	<GarBage>	lemme try
[01:04]	<yonkeltron>	does installing neuros software on win98 allow u to mount it as a drive?
[01:05]	<SmrtJustin>	I tried putting the firmware folder on my HD, but it doesnt notice it
[01:05]	<zack>	GarBage: uhoh, better not let the moz foundation see that :)
[01:05]	<SmrtJustin>	WTF
[01:05]	<SmrtJustin>	I swear, I'm about to give up on neuroses all together
[01:06]	<yonkeltron>	SmrtJustin: don't do it!
[01:06]	<nollidj>	SmrtJustin, that is probably better in the long run for your mental health
[01:06]	<SmrtJustin>	this is the third one, and it wont work
[01:06]	<yonkeltron>	so can u transfer non music files to ur neuros in win98?
[01:10]	<nollidj>	Yono, www.geocities.com
[01:10]	<Yono>	thanks
[01:11]	<nollidj>	anybody know the yahoo! group that the sorune developers use?
[01:12]	<Yono>	groups.yahoo.com/group/sorune/
[01:12]	<nollidj>	ah, found it
[01:12]	<SmrtJustin>	Why oh why me?
[01:12]	<nollidj>	SmrtJustin: has this worked on other computers?
[01:12]	<Yono>	nollidj: the page doesn't exist that u gave me
[01:13]	<SmrtJustin>	nollidj: not this one
[01:13]	<GarBage>	Yono: i put in on on the wiki
[01:13]	<SmrtJustin>	I just got this one today
[01:13]	<nollidj>	Yono, lessee
[01:14]	<nollidj>	www.geocities.com
[01:14]	<nollidj>	no 's'
[01:15]	<SmrtJustin>	OMG
[01:15]	<SmrtJustin>	guess theres no luck for this one
[01:16]	<SmrtJustin>	Im half tempted to send this back and just get an iPod
[01:18]	<GarBage>	SmrtJustin: you're on your third, don't you?
[01:18]	<SmrtJustin>	GarBage: yeah
[01:19]	<GarBage>	and still not working?
[01:19]	<SmrtJustin>	no its not reading the DB and making files/folders with wierd filenames
[01:19]	<SmrtJustin>	and I tried reflashing the fw, but it wont notice the firmware folder...
[01:20]	<GarBage>	and the sync manager you used was...?
[01:20]	<SmrtJustin>	I've tried both ndbm and nsm
[01:20]	<SmrtJustin>	they both see the songs
[01:21]	* SmrtJustin  cries
[01:21]	<GarBage>	try this:
[01:22]	<GarBage>	reformat your drive, either by using the onboard utilities or your computer
[01:23]	<SmrtJustin>	tried it
[01:23]	<GarBage>	then chkdsk it, searching your bad blocks
[01:23]	<SmrtJustin>	did it
[01:23]	<GarBage>	that's a lenghty operation
[01:23]	<GarBage>	then put your music files on /music
[01:24]	<GarBage>	and chkdsk it again
[01:25]	<GarBage>	then, grab sorune, and do a 'sorune --rebuild --sync'
[01:25]	<GarBage>	that's it
[01:26]	<GarBage>	and keep the original firmware installed
[01:27]	<Yono>	GarBage: the second version works, thanks
[01:28]	<GarBage>	Yono: np
[01:30]	<SmrtJustin>	sorune wont find it
[01:31]	<Yono>	one sec, what's ur email?
[01:32]	<iswm>	SmrtJustin, mount it to /mnt/neuros for sourne.. Unles you're still in windows, in which case I don't know what to do.
[01:32]	<GarBage>	SmrtJustin: do you have a sn.txt file on it?
[01:32]	<SmrtJustin>	GarBage:
[01:32]	<SmrtJustin>	yeah
[01:39]	<SmrtJustin>	I think I just may send this back, and get my money back
[01:40]	<GarBage>	humm... try this one
[01:40]	<GarBage>	neuros-firmware.sourceforge.net
[01:40]	<SmrtJustin>	I'm in windows right now
[01:41]	<SmrtJustin>	I really cant find an mp3 player I like better, but 3 neuroses, and none work
[01:42]	<GarBage>	SmrtJustin: it's a windows executable
[01:43]	<GarBage>	compressed with www.7zip.org
[01:43]	<Yono>	it can unzip in winrar I think
[01:44]	<GarBage>	yeah, newer WinRAR can handle those too