[00:24]	<SmrtJustin>	DeepB: you still around?
[00:24]	<DeepB>	yes?
[00:25]	<SmrtJustin>	it doesnt work...
[00:25]	<SmrtJustin>	when I run it, it doesnt do a thing
[00:25]	<DeepB>	it worked for me, GUI included
[00:25]	<SmrtJustin>	win XP?
[00:26]	<DeepB>	nope W2K
[00:26]	<SmrtJustin>	hmm
[00:26]	<SmrtJustin>	I dont think XP and 2K are that different
[00:27]	<SmrtJustin>	when I try to run it it just exits
[00:28]	<SmrtJustin>	even if I try to run it with --help
[00:28]	<SmrtJustin>	and its not creating the sorunerc.cfg file
[00:31]	<DeepB>	i've built sorune.pl, and it works here, as i said
[00:31]	<SmrtJustin>	hmf
[00:31]	<DeepB>	now i've built sorune, and it woks as well
[00:31]	<DeepB>	start your ftpd
[00:31]	<SmrtJustin>	it should be running, let me go check
[00:32]	<SmrtJustin>	is it now working?
[00:33]	<DeepB>	yeah, it's xferring
[00:33]	<SmrtJustin>	ok I'll restart it
[00:33]	<DeepB>	...
[00:33]	<SmrtJustin>	ok it should work ok now
[00:34]	<SmrtJustin>	oh crap, sorry
[00:34]	<SmrtJustin>	I read that wrong
[00:34]	* nerochiaro  finally figured out how to solve his linker problems with the neuros firmware. i can die happy now.
[00:34]	<SmrtJustin>	sorry DeepB
[00:34]	<SmrtJustin>	really sorry
[00:34]	<SmrtJustin>	:'(
[00:34]	<DeepB>	xferring again
[00:35]	<SmrtJustin>	ok I wont touch it
[00:35]	<SmrtJustin>	lol
[00:35]	<SmrtJustin>	let me know when its done
[00:37]	<DeepB>	what do you (all) think about GPL?
[00:38]	<SmrtJustin>	its nice?
[00:38]	<DeepB>	it's a good thing, a bad thing, or just don't care?
[00:38]	<DeepB>	and why
[00:38]	<SmrtJustin>	good
[00:38]	<SmrtJustin>	because it allows users to modify code so they can make stuff work for them
[00:38]	<SmrtJustin>	you have the source, so you can compile stuff instead of using binary
[00:39]	<SmrtJustin>	DeepB: is it done uploading?
[00:39]	<DeepB>	yeah, i.e. BSD License allows that too
[00:40]	<SmrtJustin>	GPL was around before BSD though, wasnt it?
[00:40]	<DeepB>	but is it GPL better than BSD, then?
[00:40]	<nerochiaro>	DeepB: well, most time it is good, but i don't like the fact it forces certain beliefs down your throat
[00:40]	<nerochiaro>	DeepB: BSD is all-permissive, you can do whatever you want with the code, commercial or not
[00:41]	<DeepB>	ok
[00:41]	<nerochiaro>	while GPL forces derivative works to be GPL too.
[00:41]	<DeepB>	then let's say
[00:41]	<SmrtJustin>	nerochiaro: I think thats good
[00:42]	<SmrtJustin>	I wouldnt be to happy if I released some code for everyone to use and mess with, and then someone starts charging money off of it
[00:42]	<SmrtJustin>	DeepB: this one works, thx a lot
[00:42]	<DeepB>	Neuros Audio, LLC, builts its Neuros upon a third party, GPL licensed software as the basis for the firmware
[00:43]	<nerochiaro>	DeepB: go on
[00:43]	<DeepB>	(i warn you, this is a completely hypothetical situation)
[00:43]	<DeepB>	they don't say a thing about the GPL stuff on it
[00:43]	<nerochiaro>	SmrtJustin: i have a remark on your last comment, but first i want to answer DeepB
[00:43]	<SmrtJustin>	nerochiaro: ok
[00:44]	<DeepB>	but some hackers, maybe nero, throw 'strings' on its firmware or whatever
[00:44]	<DeepB>	and found the 'Linux inside', or whatever
[00:44]	<nerochiaro>	got the picture. the question is ? ;)
[00:45]	<DeepB>	then, it exploits some bugs on it and discovers a way to upload modified firmware
[00:45]	<DeepB>	then, nero gets in touch with some other hackers
[00:45]	<DeepB>	and the community start asking NA, LLC to release sources
[00:46]	<DeepB>	NA, LLC finally releases their sources
[00:46]	<DeepB>	and those hackers starts some spinoffs, and forks of the firmware
[00:47]	<DeepB>	then, I, a talented hacker, with a great personality, prevailed over all other forks with my GarBage firmware
[00:47]	<DeepB>	;)
[00:48]	<DeepB>	all other hackers start working on my fork
[00:48]	<DeepB>	testing it, coding for it, and discussing it
[00:48]	<SmrtJustin>	this is a long scenario
[00:48]	<DeepB>	a GarBage community grows, while all other ones turn to it in order to join efforts
[00:48]	<nerochiaro>	SmrtJustin: indeed, but interesting
[00:49]	<SmrtJustin>	yes
[00:49]	<DeepB>	I even have some forums, wikis, etc...
[00:49]	<DeepB>	and all the community is subscribed to it, i'm the only admin
[00:50]	<DeepB>	then, all of a sudden, i refuse to release sources
[00:50]	<DeepB>	i only release binaries
[00:50]	<nerochiaro>	you can't, as it's all GPL
[00:50]	<DeepB>	and start charging 15 bucks for forum subscription
[00:51]	<SmrtJustin>	you still have to release the older versions
[00:51]	<nerochiaro>	GPL is infective: if you build upon GPL'd code, your code become GPL and you have to release the sources
[00:51]	<SmrtJustin>	they're GPL
[00:51]	<DeepB>	i can release binaries of 'testing releases' for a beta group, those paid subscribers
[00:51]	<nerochiaro>	SmrtJustin: even the new ones MUST become GPL, and thus you have to release them
[00:51]	<SmrtJustin>	yeah, I forgot the originals were GPL
[00:52]	<DeepB>	and i don't have to release sources for it, as long as they are 'testing' releases
[00:52]	<DeepB>	according to the GPL
[00:52]	<DeepB>	well, then, some people, maybe nero
[00:53]	<nerochiaro>	DeepB: i think it's kind of hazy situation. i guess you can do that, but it won't take much before someone makes a fork from your older code
[00:53]	<nerochiaro>	and starts another community from that
[00:53]	<DeepB>	get pissed off, and ask publicly on the forums why am i doing that
[00:53]	<Yono>	nero: let him finish
[00:54]	<nerochiaro>	sure, sorry
[00:54]	<DeepB>	i remove their subscription as my answer
[00:54]	<DeepB>	so i have a clean, nice community, when everyone who don't like me is being throwed off
[00:55]	<SmrtJustin>	someone could take you to court?
[00:55]	<eozl_>	without going up too many windows, it seems someone is describing the sveasoft firmware
[00:55]	<Yono>	nope
[00:55]	<Yono>	its all legal
[00:55]	<DeepB>	i have a lot of subscribers, maybe 1500, all paying me 15 bucks a year
[00:55]	<SmrtJustin>	true, but that doesnt stop someone from taking you to court
[00:55]	<DeepB>	while i spend all of my efforts in trying to prevent leaking of 'testing' releases
[00:56]	<DeepB>	by now, i barely code
[00:56]	<DeepB>	why? i have plenty of money, and a great distribution scheme, i don't have to code to earn money
[00:57]	<DeepB>	so i develop a tagging and watermarking scheme, for those releases
[00:57]	<DeepB>	every subscriber get it's own binary, and if leaked, i know who did it
[00:57]	<DeepB>	so i can remove his subscription
[00:58]	<DeepB>	everyone is allowed to redistribute, but if you're doing it, you'll losing the subscriber access
[00:58]	<Yono>	hmm I take it GarBage is the one who created the new wiki topic
[00:58]	<SmrtJustin>	GarBage are you thinking of doing this?
[00:58]	<Yono>	no smrtjustin, read: neuros-firmware.sourceforge.net
[00:59]	<DeepB>	also, i start sending mails to ISPs that hosts those distributed files
[00:59]	<nerochiaro>	SmrtJustin: would be quite stupid on his part to do that
[00:59]	<DeepB>	threating them, and saying the files are PIRATED
[00:59]	<DeepB>	cease and desist letters are all my work now
[01:00]	<DeepB>	i also email google asking to remove some pages from their index
[01:00]	<DeepB>	i start deleting info from all the related, third party wikis
[01:01]	<DeepB>	all to protect my perfect world, and keep my revenue
[01:01]	<gernika>	DeepB, you had a question?
[01:01]	<DeepB>	i release a couple of binaries a year, folowed by the sources of the inmediate earlier version
[01:02]	<DeepB>	after all, i'm still strictly following the GPL
[01:02]	<DeepB>	all of my subscribers love me
[01:03]	<DeepB>	and i'm rich
[01:03]	<DeepB>	so it's a happy ending, isn't it?
[01:03]	<Yono>	actually, if u were rich, then NA would be amazingly rich
[01:04]	<nerochiaro>	DeepB: apart of the fact you would have the moral standing of a piece of crap, yes, it's an happy ending.
[01:04]	<DeepB>	yes, NA is the one that loves me most
[01:04]	<Yono>	and if you are spending most of your time not coding, then perhaps your subscriber base would shrink in time
[01:04]	<Yono>	or you could hire a staff to take care of coding for you :)
[01:05]	<DeepB>	that's what James Ewing from Sveasoft is doing rite now with the Linksys/Broadcom firmwares
[01:05]	<nerochiaro>	Yono: again, not to mention the fact that probably better and truly free alternatives will spring up very soon
[01:06]	<nerochiaro>	DeepB: where's the "testing" clause you mentioned in the GPL. i didn't know about that
[01:06]	<Yono>	so DeepB, is Offtopic now your alter ego?
[01:06]	<DeepB>	you don't have to publicly release 'beta' sources if you don't want to
[01:06]	* eozl_  likes the zlip/libpng licence, it's the only one that i can read
[01:07]	<SmrtJustin>	lol
[01:07]	<nerochiaro>	eozl_: also the MIT license is quite good and readable
[01:07]	<nerochiaro>	eozl_: or BSD
[01:07]	<eozl_>	i have heard good things about both, but i could not read them, so i went with the zlib one for my little projects
[01:08]	<nerochiaro>	eozl_: basically they are very similar to zlib, i think. all permissive.
[01:08]	<SmrtJustin>	DeepB: do you mind if I let sorune use your account on my server, or have you already changed the password?
[01:08]	<eozl_>	ah, i see that the MIT license is also quite readable
[01:08]	<DeepB>	SmrtJustin: what? go ahead, i haven't changed anything :)
[01:09]	<SmrtJustin>	DeepB: ok thanks
[01:09]	<nerochiaro>	oh, by the way, we all should shout: I AM NOT A LAWYER ;)
[01:09]	<SmrtJustin>	yeah
[01:09]	<nerochiaro>	otherwise, sharks will get down and sue all us to death
[01:09]	<Yono>	lol
[01:09]	<DeepB>	nerochiaro: say you wanted to start a fork
[01:10]	<DeepB>	all but a few pissed off users would follow, i have all the masses with me, they love me and i lie to them about your code being crap
[01:10]	<nerochiaro>	DeepB: it's 1:15 AM and i'm too sleepy to start anything, even less a fork, but please go ahead ;)
[01:11]	<SmrtJustin>	lol
[01:11]	<nerochiaro>	DeepB: so what, my fork would not be about money, so i could not care less about your masses
[01:11]	<DeepB>	in fact i would spend more time keeping my bases than coding, but that's how it works
[01:11]	<SmrtJustin>	then he could sue you for (the written form of slander)
[01:11]	<SmrtJustin>	I forget the word
[01:12]	<eozl_>	libel?
[01:12]	<nerochiaro>	defamation ?
[01:13]	<SmrtJustin>	libel thats it
[01:14]	<chreekat>	DeepB: while I don't think that hypothetical GarBage is evil, I also don't think that he would keep a monopoly on the firmware.
[01:14]	<nerochiaro>	chreekat: would keep or could keep ?
[01:14]	<chreekat>	could
[01:15]	<SmrtJustin>	yeah, not sure it could happen
[01:15]	<SmrtJustin>	someone else would mess with the firmware
[01:15]	<chreekat>	..But that's just my gut feeling
[01:15]	<DeepB>	chreekat: oh.. trust me, i'd put all my efforts onto keeping it, and i could have a couple of years of huge incomings
[01:16]	<chreekat>	Well, you can't keep that quiet. One post to /. and you're done
[01:16]	<Yono>	and he'd move to america and his rich ass would never have to pay taxes again!
[01:16]	<Yono>	:)
[01:16]	<nerochiaro>	Yono: america ? cayman islands would be better
[01:16]	<DeepB>	chreekat: read this: slashdot.org
[01:17]	<Yono>	nah, nero, he'd just keep his money in the cayman islands :)
[01:18]	<Yono>	actually, I believe that Sveasoft cannot refuse source access FOR THOSE WHO HAVE OBTAINED A BINARY FROM THEM
[01:18]	<nerochiaro>	Yono: i didn't know the US had such good tax laws
[01:18]	<Yono>	tax cuts is more like it
[01:18]	<Yono>	bush is really into the trickle down theory
[01:20]	<nerochiaro>	well people, this is a nice discussion, and i would really like to stay and enjoy it, but my brain thinks otherwise, and i have no choice but to obey it. To sleep, then !
[01:20]	<nerochiaro>	See you all
[01:21]	<Yono>	later
[01:24]	<chreekat>	"Fortunately, greed on this scale usually indicates a poor businessman, so I'm watching eagerly for the day when Sveasoft implodes in on itself and eats its own head. "
[01:24]	<chreekat>	teehee
[01:25]	<eozl_>	i thought it meant cunning business, cf. mr gates
[01:25]	<DeepB>	yeah, i'm hoping that too
[01:25]	<chreekat>	eozl has a point
[01:29]	<chreekat>	Well, law's timescale is decades, and business' timescale is years. Business has begun doing what it can with the GPL. Law will follow eventually.
[01:29]	<eozl_>	for linux users of nerochiaro's graphic editor, does it work better with the blackdown jdk or the sun jdk or the sun jre
[01:29]	<Yono>	hey DeepB, if you edit the icons and save them, are they changed when you compile?
[01:30]	<Yono>	I haven't tried it yet, I was wondering if you had
[01:46]	<Yono>	DeepB, I'm confused now
[01:47]	<Yono>	I edited the icon, saved, and it didn't change anything
[02:10]	<SmrtJustin>	DeepB: I figured out my par/pp finally
[02:12]	<DeepB>	SmrtJustin: great, what was wrong?
[02:12]	<SmrtJustin>	it was too old of a version of par
[02:13]	<SmrtJustin>	the new version of sorune is going to allow you to change the order of the menus, if the firmware will ever support it....
[02:14]	<DeepB>	let me change mine...
[02:14]	<SmrtJustin>	?
[02:15]	<SmrtJustin>	your going to change your firmware right now?
[02:20]	<SmrtJustin>	...
[02:24]	<chreekat>	Hey, can you make the TI compiler output assembly?
[02:35]	<chreekat>	Yono, do you know if the TI compiler can output assembly?
[02:35]	<Yono>	output assembly?
[02:35]	<Yono>	as in convert C to assembly?
[02:35]	<chreekat>	like gcc -S
[02:35]	<chreekat>	yeah
[02:35]	<Yono>	that I do not know
[02:35]	<chreekat>	Ok, I'll look into it
[02:36]	<Yono>	alright
[02:37]	<Yono>	sorune: are you still here?
[02:37]	<SmrtJustin>	I'm not sure what DeepB went to go change
[02:37]	<SmrtJustin>	guess I'll hear about it whenever he comes back
[02:39]	<SmrtJustin>	DeepB: whatcha changing?
[02:40]	<DeepB>	chreekat: cg500 -n
[02:40]	<DeepB>	SmrtJustin: it worked
[02:40]	<chreekat>	k thanks
[02:41]	<Yono>	DeepB: if you edit an icon with nero's app, save it and then compile, why doesn't the icon change in the fw?
[02:41]	<SmrtJustin>	DeepB: what did?
[02:41]	<DeepB>	Yono: short answer, do a full rebuild
[02:41]	<Yono>	?
[02:42]	<DeepB>	changed the order of the DB menus on sorune
[02:43]	<SmrtJustin>	you changed it in sorune or the firmware?
[02:43]	<DeepB>	sorune, my firmware was tweaked already to allow that
[02:44]	<SmrtJustin>	well sorune said he had problems with it
[02:46]	<sorune>	DeepB, talking about your .7 version?
[02:46]	<DeepB>	yeah
[02:46]	<sorune>	Did you move songs?
[02:46]	<DeepB>	as long as SONGS come first...
[02:46]	<sorune>	ahhhh...
[02:47]	<SmrtJustin>	aww, I wanted to put Artists first
[02:47]	<sorune>	but then the info is messed up
[02:47]	<SmrtJustin>	why does songs have to be first?
[02:47]	<DeepB>	info is fine here
[02:48]	<sorune>	i moved albums to under songs and when i did an info on the files, it was all screwy
[02:48]	<sorune>	if you move songs, you have to reformat the HD
[02:48]	<DeepB>	what?
[02:48]	<sorune>	f/w really doesn't like that :)
[02:49]	<DeepB>	reformat hd?
[02:49]	<sorune>	if you move songs
[02:49]	<DeepB>	nope, i just --sync'ed again
[02:49]	<sorune>	N1 or N2
[02:49]	<DeepB>	N2
[02:50]	<SmrtJustin>	so you can or cant move songs?
[02:50]	<DeepB>	SmrtJustin: you can't
[02:50]	<SmrtJustin>	why not?
[02:50]	<sorune>	i couldn't get the usb to connect on my N1
[02:50]	<sorune>	before the error occurred
[02:50]	<sorune>	that reminds me...
[02:51]	<sorune>	it would be nice if the f/w would check for the usb cable on power on and go immediately into sync mode
[02:51]	<SmrtJustin>	yeah it would
[02:52]	<DeepB>	are you THE sorune? D.?
[02:52]	<sorune>	Si
[02:53]	<DeepB>	oh, dude... hang around here more often
[02:53]	<sorune>	:0
[02:53]	<DeepB>	i have a lot of questions for you, but i gotta go sleeping
[02:53]	<SmrtJustin>	lol
[02:53]	<sorune>	ok
[02:54]	<sorune>	ttyl
[02:54]	<DeepB>	ciao
[02:54]	<SmrtJustin>	sorune: do I have to compile this with an option so it will release the terminal?
[03:38]	<Yono>	ahh
[04:25]	<Yono>	does anyone know what a "full rebuild" of the firmware is?
[04:33]	<_Silmaril>	so I was thinking of trying to write a gameboy emu for the neuros
[04:37]	<Yono>	really?
[04:38]	<_Silmaril>	well
[04:38]	<_Silmaril>	I haven't even begun to research the feasibility of it
[04:38]	<_Silmaril>	nor am I even certain I'm qualified to do it :)
[04:39]	<derobert>	most likely, it's not.... you probably don't have anything near the CPU you'd need to emulate
[04:40]	<_Silmaril>	yeah
[04:40]	<_Silmaril>	probably not :)
[04:41]	<_Silmaril>	what about a...hmmmm...like a non-realtime emulator?
[04:41]	<derobert>	Permanent slow-mo?
[04:42]	<_Silmaril>	no
[04:42]	<_Silmaril>	hmm
[04:42]	<_Silmaril>	lemme see what I'm trying to say
[04:51]	<Yono>	60-80% realtime?
[04:58]	<unknown_lamer>	There is a realtime NES emulator for Series60.
[04:58]	<unknown_lamer>	The fastest Series60 device is the 7610 which is an entire 120Mhz
[04:58]	<unknown_lamer>	(ARM7)
[04:58]	<Yono>	oh
[04:58]	<unknown_lamer>	But the ARM7 is a general purpose processor and not a DSP
[04:58]	<unknown_lamer>	I bet the DSP would make the graphics stuff go faster but the game logic slower.
[04:58]	<Yono>	well in that case the neuros could probably run NES in realtime or close
[04:59]	<unknown_lamer>	The DSP is a different archictecture entirely.
[04:59]	<derobert>	ummm, how much RAM does a GBA or NES have?
[05:00]	<derobert>	or GB, not GBA
[05:01]	<Yono>	it would be GB, black and white like the neuros
[05:02]	<Yono>	derobert: en.wikipedia.org
[05:02]	<Yono>	RAM: 8 kbit internal
[05:03]	<derobert>	hmmm, wonder if the access time on the flash is good enough to use that for the ROM cartridges
[05:04]	<derobert>	how does the 160x144 pixels compare to the Neuros?
[05:04]	<derobert>	ah... bigger :-(
[05:04]	<derobert>	neuros is apparently only 128x128, so GB was bigger in both dimensions
[05:04]	<Yono>	yeah
[05:05]	<derobert>	also, GB did gray... does the Neuros? I don't think so
[05:06]	<Yono>	derobert, do you know how the contrast feature works?
[05:06]	<derobert>	nope
[05:07]	<Yono>	because hopefully he could use it to have multiple contrasts at once
[05:07]	<derobert>	I'd assume by changing the voltage, but I've never looked
[05:07]	<Yono>	*we
[05:07]	<derobert>	Even if not, there is always the hackish way of getting gray: Rapidly flicker the pixel on and off
[05:07]	<derobert>	works great for Ti-Chess on a TI-89
[05:08]	<Yono>	heh
[05:08]	<derobert>	however, that takes more CPU :-(
[05:09]	<Yono>	yeah
[05:10]	<Yono>	I'm hoping that by comparing the diffs between TI tetris and neuros tetris, there might be a way to convert other TI apps
[05:12]	<derobert>	I'm hoping for a gcc for Neuros someday....
[05:12]	<Yono>	that's chreekat's goal too
[05:17]	<unknown_lamer>	Solution:
[05:17]	<unknown_lamer>	Right an ARM7-Thumb emulator for the DSP
[05:17]	<unknown_lamer>	and compile against that :)
[05:18]	<_Silmaril>	heh
[05:18]	<_Silmaril>	im back
[05:18]	<_Silmaril>	looks like you guys are probably more knowledgable than I
[05:18]	<_Silmaril>	I haven't even tried to dev for the neuros yet. baby steps.
[05:19]	<Yono>	unknown_lamer, have you seen this?
[05:19]	<Yono>	64.233.167.104
[05:19]	* SmrtJustin  is itching to put new firmware on his neuros
[05:19]	<Yono>	which new fw?
[05:20]	<SmrtJustin>	either Garbage or Bernard's
[05:20]	<Koron>	any news on if we are going to get the source for neutris?
[05:20]	<Yono>	or you could build your own ;)
[05:20]	<unknown_lamer>	Yono: is that the patent for myfi?
[05:20]	<Yono>	Koron: as soon as the fw goes official
[05:20]	<Koron>	and...I also wonder if neutris is legal
[05:20]	<unknown_lamer>	Koron: Huh?
[05:20]	<Koron>	I know some people have been sued/threatened for tetris clones
[05:20]	<Yono>	no, its a white paper on myfi, it has a lot of great info
[05:20]	<SmrtJustin>	Yono: then I'd have to get the compiler, and I probably wouldnt benefit from it
[05:20]	<Yono>	true
[05:21]	<Koron>	I used to play a great little multiplayer version that was free
[05:21]	<Koron>	tetrinet
[05:21]	<Koron>	development was stopped because of threats of lawsuits
[05:21]	<Yono>	but you could brag that you compiled your firmware yourself :)
[05:21]	<SmrtJustin>	I could
[05:21]	<SmrtJustin>	I'm afraid to put a working firmware on it, who knows what my own creation would do
[05:22]	<Koron>	if it compiles fine and you haven't changed much it will work fine
[05:22]	<SmrtJustin>	let me put someone else's on first
[05:22]	<derobert>	who could sue for tetris?
[05:22]	<SmrtJustin>	which I'm still very afraid to do
[05:23]	<SmrtJustin>	derobert: www.tetris.com
[05:23]	<Koron>	there is a corporation that owns the copyright on tetris
[05:23]	<SmrtJustin>	its copyrighted
[05:23]	<_Silmaril>	I have an old neuros
[05:23]	<_Silmaril>	that is a little broken :)
[05:23]	<_Silmaril>	I'll be testing any fw on that first
[05:23]	<SmrtJustin>	lol
[05:23]	<_Silmaril>	I don't really see how you could "break" it though
[05:23]	<SmrtJustin>	I really wanna put some other fw on mine, but I'm soooo afraid
[05:23]	<_Silmaril>	with fw anyway
[05:23]	<derobert>	copyright, or trademark?
[05:24]	<SmrtJustin>	copyright on the name and idea
[05:24]	<SmrtJustin>	I think its a copyright...
[05:24]	<jbn>	Copyright never covers ideas.
[05:24]	<unknown_lamer>	trademark
[05:24]	<Koron>	copyright covers the game design
[05:24]	<Yono>	I think its both copyrighted and trademarked actually
[05:24]	<Koron>	indeed
[05:24]	<unknown_lamer>	Copyright for the implementation.
[05:24]	<unknown_lamer>	Just *that* implementation
[05:25]	<SmrtJustin>	should I put new firmware on it?