[00:01]	<unknown_lamer>	Oh well, no music for my trip to the university
[00:01]	<unknown_lamer>	time for calculus
[00:03]	<nerochiaro>	damn! i just realized that i have lost the good part of an hour because of an error caused by a stupid insignificant minuscule typing error
[00:03]	<nerochiaro>	HATE !
[00:03]	<unknown_lamer>	Those are the worst bugs
[00:03]	<unknown_lamer>	I usually find them after sleeping and waking up
[00:04]	<nerochiaro>	yeah, me too, but it was still early for getting to bed one hour ago
[00:04]	<nerochiaro>	in restrospect, i should have gone to sleep
[00:04]	<DeepB>	gotta love third generation programming languages...
[00:06]	<nerochiaro>	yeah, too bad i'm lost deep in firmware land where there's no trace of them
[00:07]	<DeepB>	hummm... i thought C was 3rd gen
[00:09]	<nerochiaro>	yeah, what did i say ?
[00:15]	<DeepB>	something about sleeping, and i'll follow the advice promptly
[00:15]	<DeepB>	gnite
[00:15]	<nerochiaro>	me too, very soon
[00:16]	<nerochiaro>	g'nite
[02:24]	<sorune>	hey everyone
[02:24]	<noiz77>	hey
[02:39]	<chreekat>	hi
[06:00]	<solomon>	is it definite that the n3 will _not_ have a CF card reader?
[06:01]	<solomon>	because i was just thinking about how awesome it would be to take my n3 and digital camera out and xfer my pics to the n3 when i ran out of space on my cf card
[06:02]	<Rappo>	hello, i was wondering if anybody here could help me with using the "restore DB" feature in the neuros database manager
[06:04]	<Rappo>	basically i dont understand when and why it is used
[06:06]	<unknown_lamer>	DeepB: first gen languages are better
[06:06]	<unknown_lamer>	DeepB: FORTRAN and Lisp all the way :)
[07:24]	<Starkey>	I TA'd a FORTRAN class for two years.
[17:22]	<JoshMalone>	wonder if I could get one of those extra brains to run my distortion tests on (and not put my personal brain at risk)
[17:23]	<solomon>	only if you promise they will have good results!
[17:23]	<solomon>	;)
[17:24]	<JoshMalone>	well - what I wanna do is just solder a bunch of test leads on it so I can look at things on the scope easily
[17:47]	<solomon>	i imagine the people who decide such stuff would find it useful
[17:47]	<solomon>	how it is useful, anyway? :)
[17:47]	<JoshMalone>	well - I've been chasing some distortion stuff on the output and I wanna look at voltages and signals while the N is running
[17:48]	<JoshMalone>	that's going to require making a ribbon cable to connect the brain to the backpack
[17:48]	<JoshMalone>	so I can manipulate the brain while in operation
[17:49]	<JoshMalone>	that way I can look at look at things on the scope while it's running - pin levels, voltages, etc.
[17:52]	<solomon>	i'm just curious what you can do with the conclusions you draw
[17:52]	<solomon>	suggested design changes for the n3 or something?
[17:52]	<JoshMalone>	basically, yeah
[17:52]	<JoshMalone>	but, perhaps I can even re-work the board to fix voltage levels, etc.
[17:54]	<solomon>	interesting email here from the ceo (or whatever) of mindawn
[17:54]	<solomon>	er, posting
[17:54]	<solomon>	in response to a topic on FLAC
[17:54]	<solomon>	My company recently launched a new electronic music service called Mindawn (www.mindawn.com and we offer our music in both Ogg and FLAC format. We're looking for a hardware partner that we can work with to get some good penetration in to the iPod market and Neuros looks the best. We're also a software company, so we're able to do pretty much whatever we need to get things done. We have both client and CD ripping software for Linux, Windows
[17:54]	<solomon>	Regards,
[17:54]	<solomon>	Shawn Gordon
[17:54]	<solomon>	President
[17:54]	<solomon>	www.thekompany.com
[17:54]	<solomon>	www.mindawn.com
[17:54]	<solomon>	Shawn Gordon
[17:54]	<solomon>	ew
[17:55]	<solomon>	i wonder why i haven't seen them involved in this new push for flac and mpc and such
[17:55]	<JoshMalone>	thekompany - I've heard of that mindawn thing
[17:57]	<JoshMalone>	since they primarily use OGG and FLAC there - they should get beind the flac codec port
[17:59]	<solomon>	yeah
[17:59]	<solomon>	i wonder if that post has come to joe's attention
[18:00]	<solomon>	i suppose it doesn't even really have to, Starkey could just contact him and let him know that any coders competent with FLAC would be helpful
[18:00]	<JoshMalone>	indeed
[18:01]	<solomon>	i will email the list and joe and Starkey
[18:01]	<solomon>	do you know Starkey's email?
[18:04]	<JoshMalone>	no - but I'll bet I can find it
[18:05]	<JoshMalone>	well - dunno his good email address :(
[18:08]	<solomon>	hehehe
[18:08]	<solomon>	i'll look for a post from him to the list
[18:11]	<DeepB>	geeky, google's clusters are cousins to Deep Thought
[18:11]	<DeepB>	www.google.com
[18:12]	<solomon>	there
[18:12]	<JoshMalone>	LOL
[18:12]	<JoshMalone>	that's too good
[18:12]	<JoshMalone>	love those google guys
[18:13]	<JoshMalone>	okay - time to grab lunch; bbiab
[18:14]	<DeepB>	yeah, that was a good one
[18:14]	<DeepB>	but it fails sometimes...
[18:14]	<DeepB>	www.google.com
[18:17]	<solomon>	i wonder if mindawn would be interested in integrating a sync manager as part of their client software
[18:17]	<solomon>	it would be like itunes without the retarded evil company and drm
[18:18]	<solomon>	and without the huge libarary of popular music
[18:18]	<solomon>	but still, it would be something
[18:24]	<JoshMalone>	sounds like a good idea
[18:25]	<solomon>	there is a little something silly about them
[18:25]	<solomon>	their artist software includes a ripper
[18:25]	<solomon>	i was just reading the docs for it
[18:25]	<solomon>	it tells the artist that they should rip it twice, once in flac and once in ogg, and upload both to them
[18:26]	<solomon>	that is very silly
[18:26]	<solomon>	(1) you could rip it once and then convert to ogg and send both to them, why rip a second time?
[18:26]	<solomon>	(2) you could send them flac and they could convert it to ogg, why send them both?
[18:28]	<JoshMalone>	make the artist to do the work, I'd imagine
[18:28]	<JoshMalone>	saves them from having a codec farm
[18:29]	<JoshMalone>	plus, ripping from CD twice may actually be faster then transcoding
[18:29]	<JoshMalone>	assuming a fast CD drive
[18:29]	<solomon>	that would probably cost less than the bandwidth it takes to have the artist send it to you
[18:29]	<JoshMalone>	but I doubt there's much difference, really
[18:29]	<solomon>	by that, i mean having a codec farm
[18:29]	<JoshMalone>	dunno why they made that decision
[18:29]	<JoshMalone>	yeah - figured
[18:30]	<solomon>	maybe they didn't think about it ;)
[18:30]	<JoshMalone>	dunno
[18:30]	<JoshMalone>	anyway - off to lunch - l8r
[18:31]	<solomon>	later
[19:36]	<nerochiaro>	JoshMalone: still there ?
[19:36]	<JoshMalone>	yeah
[19:37]	<nerochiaro>	i am reading the log, where you ask for one dev unit to hack apart
[19:37]	<JoshMalone>	well - not hack apart really, just convert into a hardware dev unit
[19:38]	<JoshMalone>	I'd return it working, and with test points and a backpack ribbon cable
[19:38]	<JoshMalone>	only thing is, I'm not sure about the USB1.1 brain vs. the published NII schematic
[19:40]	<nerochiaro>	(i'm bad at electronics but) i was wondering if there were some pins on the DSP or other places in the board that could be used to connect something that could be used to send data to the PC
[19:40]	<nerochiaro>	quite murky as a question, forgive me
[19:40]	<JoshMalone>	what kind of data? like debugging info?
[19:41]	<nerochiaro>	yes, simple debugging info, but in real time. much better than the write-to-disk-file i'm using now to "debug"
[19:41]	<JoshMalone>	seems like what you want would be JTAG
[19:42]	<nerochiaro>	heard that thing is heavily proprietary trade secret of TI
[19:42]	<nerochiaro>	or someting to that effect
[19:42]	<JoshMalone>	but - there may be something you could do
[19:42]	<JoshMalone>	I would hope that DI could supply the bound desc file
[19:43]	<nerochiaro>	define "bound desc file" (i told you i was bad)
[19:43]	<JoshMalone>	but - JTAG hardware is expensive
[19:43]	<JoshMalone>	so, the DSP digital I/O debug sounds like a cool project
[19:43]	<JoshMalone>	maybe I can find something and add it to the "dev brain"
[19:44]	<nerochiaro>	in fact, what i was going to ask you was to look into that problem for a little, while you were already inspecting it
[19:46]	<JoshMalone>	yeah - if I get a dev brain I'll do that
[19:47]	<nerochiaro>	thanks. i'm sure that if you could pull someting in that direction it would be of much help in developing on the N
[19:47]	<DeepB>	what about USB/serial comms for debugging? assuming you manage to load the usb code whilst all other sections
[19:47]	<JoshMalone>	indeed - then I'll have to ask for a dev brain; this gives me 2 good reasons to get one
[19:48]	<nerochiaro>	JoshMalone: don't forget the offer that was made in the mailing list from none other than Joe. did you read it ?
[19:49]	<JoshMalone>	yeah - but I'd rather just use one of the existing homeless brains
[19:49]	<JoshMalone>	at least initially
[19:49]	<JoshMalone>	maybe if I get something cooked up that works well, I can mod a few donated brains for other people so we have a pool of 'em
[19:50]	<nerochiaro>	DeepB: how do you read data from the PC side along an USB connection ?
[19:50]	<nerochiaro>	JoshMalone: that would be great.
[19:51]	<nerochiaro>	JoshMalone: the digital I/O debugger idea does require hardware mod to work, or is just a matter of correctly encoding etc the output signal to the port from the firmware ?
[19:51]	<nerochiaro>	JoshMalone: and of course decoding it from Pc
[19:51]	<JoshMalone>	seems like 2 options are possible (w/o looking at the schematic to verify):
[19:52]	<JoshMalone>	1 - there's a digital I/O we can use that's not related to the audio output
[19:52]	<JoshMalone>	2 - modulate debugging data out the audio output when playback is turned off
[19:52]	<JoshMalone>	1 would be a lot nicer
[19:53]	<nerochiaro>	clearly
[19:54]	<nerochiaro>	DeepB: i'll go get something to eat, then try out the stuff you sent me
[19:55]	<DeepB>	k
[20:02]	<JoshMalone>	probably there is some dig I/O on the DSP that could be used for debug
[20:03]	<nerochiaro>	JoshMalone: by keeping the brain open, i imagine
[20:03]	<nerochiaro>	DeepB: "You should add the "Sync" menú to
[20:03]	<nerochiaro>	the list of ordered menus somewhere on that file too"
[20:03]	<nerochiaro>	where is that i do this in the sorunerc.cfg
[20:03]	<nerochiaro>	?
[20:03]	<JoshMalone>	could probably run wires out to a connector, dremel the case and close it again
[20:06]	<DeepB>	i can't understand why usb frame polling is such a bad idea
[20:07]	<nerochiaro>	i didn't say that. i just don't know how it could be done. this is all
[20:07]	<DeepB>	nerochiaro: there should be a list of menus in your config file
[20:07]	<nerochiaro>	like audio, songs, playlists etc ?
[20:07]	<DeepB>	yep, that one
[20:08]	<nerochiaro>	so i should add like "sync = Recent" ?
[20:08]	<nerochiaro>	tried it. fails to start.
[20:09]	<nerochiaro>	runs the hard disk for a second, then dies without a sound
[20:09]	<nerochiaro>	oh, wait there's an error message to console:
[20:09]	<nerochiaro>	Missing right curly or square bracket at line 2689, at end of line
[20:09]	<nerochiaro>	syntax error at line 2689, at EOF
[20:09]	<nerochiaro>	Compilation failed in require at script/sorunecl line 47, <DATA> line 165.
[20:09]	<nerochiaro>	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at script/sorunecl line 59, <DATA> line 165.
[20:11]	<DeepB>	how much that exe weights exactly
[20:11]	<DeepB>	?
[20:12]	<nerochiaro>	windows is tricky with files sizes, but i think 2.793.472 byte
[20:12]	<nerochiaro>	either that or 2.791.713 byte
[20:13]	<DeepB>	drop it, i'm forwarding you another one
[20:14]	<nerochiaro>	right
[20:17]	<DeepB>	do you have perl installed? if so, you could try to build your own
[20:17]	<nerochiaro>	i can try, not sure if i have the right version of it, though
[20:18]	<DeepB>	any 5.8.* would do, my guess
[20:18]	<DeepB>	anyway, sent
[20:19]	<nerochiaro>	i have v5.8.4 built from active state (build 810)
[20:21]	<DeepB>	then, try to "ppm install <packages listed on sorune docs>" plus 'par'
[20:22]	<nerochiaro>	wait a sec, i have tried running the one you sent me, and it accessed the neuros, then crashed. already better
[20:22]	<nerochiaro>	it worked
[20:23]	<DeepB>	what about this line?
[20:23]	<DeepB>	menuorder = Songs,Playlists,Artists,Albums,Genres,Years,Syncs,Recordings
[20:23]	<DeepB>	do you have it?
[20:24]	<nerochiaro>	yes
[20:25]	<nerochiaro>	it rebuilt the db. what is the Fechas menu ?
[20:25]	<nerochiaro>	oh, years
[20:25]	<DeepB>	spanish for dates... stands for years
[20:25]	<nerochiaro>	can it be disabled somehow, i would never use that
[20:26]	<DeepB>	it is also linked to development >= 2
[20:26]	<nerochiaro>	ok, no problem then, i'll just ignore it
[20:26]	<DeepB>	easily tweakable on the sources, though
[20:27]	<nerochiaro>	yeah, but it's no big deal even to have it. i might even start to like it by having it under my eyes often
[20:27]	<nerochiaro>	i'm trying the syncs feature, uploading something new
[20:29]	<nerochiaro>	mmh, doesn't work
[20:29]	<nerochiaro>	shows an empty menu and then if i try to navigate into it, it says "no records available"
[20:30]	<nerochiaro>	"empty" = with one single item with no text
[20:31]	<DeepB>	can you open the sorune.db.gz?
[20:32]	<DeepB>	and take a peak at the db file inside?
[20:32]	<nerochiaro>	sure, what should i look for ?
[20:32]	<DeepB>	look for sync| entries
[20:32]	<nerochiaro>	i have them, all the songs that i uploaded are there
[20:33]	<DeepB>	is there a date besides those entries?
[20:34]	<nerochiaro>	yes, today's date
[20:34]	<DeepB>	good, then do a sorunecl --sync
[20:34]	<nerochiaro>	lemme check, maybe my neuros is configged with the wrong date
[20:34]	<DeepB>	that should not affect at all
[20:36]	<nerochiaro>	is --sync a new full rebuild ?
[20:36]	<DeepB>	nope
[20:36]	<DeepB>	not even a rebuild, it just wipes the neuros DBs with a new ones
[20:37]	<nerochiaro>	done, but same problem as before
[20:38]	<DeepB>	weird
[20:38]	<nerochiaro>	i tried again, just to make sure i didn't unmount the drive incorrectly last time
[20:39]	<nerochiaro>	nope, no joy
[20:39]	<DeepB>	maybe a full_rebuild is needed, then
[20:40]	<nerochiaro>	i'm all for it. how do i start one ?
[20:40]	<DeepB>	sorunecl --full_rebuild
[20:40]	<nerochiaro>	(i know, i should RTFM ;)
[20:41]	<DeepB>	you're forgiven, ain't readme for this patches
[20:41]	<nerochiaro>	but the console help sez: --rebuild_full
[20:41]	<DeepB>	yep, that's it
[20:41]	<nerochiaro>	i'm running it
[20:42]	<nerochiaro>	man, i'm glad italian and spanish are similar enough i can read almost all your localized apps. you love your language, don't you ? ;)
[20:43]	<DeepB>	kinda, i speak galician most of the time, though
[20:43]	<nerochiaro>	is that a dialect of spanish, right ?
[20:44]	<DeepB>	you know, on some places around here you could have your balls removed for saying that out loud ;)
[20:45]	<nerochiaro>	i imagined as much, but it was too late to retract it
[20:46]	<DeepB>	it's a language of it's own, actually it is more likely to be confused with portuguese than spanish
[20:47]	<nerochiaro>	cool. i will try and avoid doing that mistake again if i ever come to Spain. I don't want to come back home as an eunuch
[20:48]	<nerochiaro>	i'll be back in some minutes
[20:50]	<DeepB>	nah, we galicians have lost quite a respect for our very language, basques and catalonians are much harsh about their languages
[20:51]	<DeepB>	that's why you have never heard about galician before, but probably did about theirs
[20:56]	<nerochiaro>	in fact i did hear about them, especially basques
[20:56]	<DeepB>	grrr.. this torrent of the DVD of the Young Ones have been stalled at 99% for three weeks now, 4.3Gb downloaded so far and no seeds... i'feel the urge to smack somebody's wits
[20:58]	<nerochiaro>	if it can help you feel better, know that i will be having two ugly weeks starting tomorrow because i have been forced by my boss to work with that damned piece of monkey shit of a language that is called VBScript
[20:59]	<nerochiaro>	i can think of no worst thing that could befall the mind of mortal
[20:59]	<DeepB>	why are you being punished that way? did he caught you laid with her wife or something?
[21:01]	<nerochiaro>	yeah, i am wondering that too.
[21:02]	<nerochiaro>	but appearently it was the customer's request. don't know why anyone in his right mind would ask something like that
[21:02]	<nerochiaro>	a sadistic customer, probably
[21:03]	<nerochiaro>	oh, the rebuild had ended. it worked, but it put ALL the songs into the menu now.
[21:03]	<DeepB>	i used to fiddle with it for some crappy installers in the past, i must say it is amazingly powerful for a native scripting language, my scripts were no longer than 50 lines or code or so, and i felt the pain already
[21:05]	<DeepB>	yeah, sync tomorrow, or change your PC date and add some stuff
[21:05]	<nerochiaro>	yeah, i figured that
[21:06]	<nerochiaro>	would it be possible to sub-sort below that sync category by album ?
[21:06]	<DeepB>	yep, but i didn't wanted to
[21:07]	<DeepB>	because of the current submenu limitations in the firmware
[21:07]	<DeepB>	i wanted a straight one
[21:07]	<nerochiaro>	i see. you would have to edit the fw to add the submenu
[21:07]	<DeepB>	nope
[21:08]	<nerochiaro>	so what am i missing ?
[21:08]	<DeepB>	i would have to tweak the damn queueing system in the firmware
[21:08]	<DeepB>	which is already turning me nuts
[21:09]	<nerochiaro>	but doesn't already sorune support artist->album sub sorting ?
[21:09]	<nerochiaro>	havent' looked into the queuing, yet
[21:09]	<DeepB>	yep, it does, you can have unlimited submenus
[21:09]	<DeepB>	but, the firmware will only queue properly leaf nodes (songs) or their inmediate ones
[21:10]	<nerochiaro>	now i think i understand
[21:10]	<nerochiaro>	well, i'll do without it for now
[21:12]	<nerochiaro>	speaking of firmware, i will now enter an extended coding session, so that i can fill my mind with all the beauty, curly braces and pointers of C in preparation to the unclean job that waits for me tomorrow
[21:12]	<nerochiaro>	later
[21:13]	<DeepB>	wish you luck on both tasks, boy
[21:13]	<nerochiaro>	thanks pal
[22:33]	<Yono>	hey
[22:33]	<JoshMalone>	hey
[22:57]	<SmrtJustin>	hello all
[23:02]	<JoshMalone>	hey