Log from #neuros IRC channel

<DeepB>

ffvw from ffdshow is installed, but VirtualDub doesn't seem to like it

CiTay: ok. and starkey is going to do FLAC, and there is one person slated to do GCC with another who might be brought in. any other news on that front?

[00:01]

solom: i dont think anyone knows if the gcc guy has got in touch with Joe yet

[00:01]

you'd have to ask joe id think

[00:01]

<CiTay>

don't know either

[00:01]

cool

[00:02]

i was just editing my post in response to somebody complaining about things not getting done :)

[00:02]

<CiTay>

i'm waiting all day for that neuros.php-info.com to come back, since i need to show it the third person i just mentioned

[00:03]

<CiTay>

even spoke to the webmaster but he says he fixed it..

[00:04]

<CiTay>

there were hardware specs on there

[00:05]

<CiTay>

should've taken the offline copy nero had and put it on my own webspace

[00:05]

i thought somebody just spent 20 years uploading that stuff to neuros-firmware.sourceforge.net

[00:06]

<CiTay>

hm no that's not it

[00:25]

<CiTay>

thanks to noiz77: www.sorune.com

[00:25]

yep

[00:25]

hey Yono

[00:25]

<Yono>

hey noiz

[00:26]

www.sorune.com put the hardware schematics on sorune.com since the other site is kinda flakey

[00:26]

<Yono>

you mean neuros.php-help.com?

[00:26]

yeah

[00:27]

<Yono>

if you have the space, then great

[00:27]

i have it, and the bandwidth

[00:27]

and keith said he would host a site, so maybe if i have trouble, he can host the files

[00:29]

<Yono>

great

[00:29]

<Yono>

bbl

[00:40]

<ivel|E>

i have all the space you might need too

[00:40]

<ivel|E>

and bandwidth too

[00:41]

sorune is only using 40mb bandwidth right now

[00:41]

<ivel|E>

lemme know if you need it hosted - levi.adams@gmail.com

[00:41]

and i have 10gb

[00:41]

so i think it should be fine

[00:41]

<ivel|E>

yeah i have 500 GB

[00:41]

<ivel|E>

use about 3

[00:41]

wow

[00:41]

whos your host?

[00:41]

<ivel|E>

1and1

[00:42]

<ivel|E>

sorry i think it's only 100GB

[00:43]

thats still 10 times more than i have :)

[00:44]

<ivel|E>

but i never use it

[00:45]

do you use most of the space you have?

[00:46]

<ivel|E>

no

[00:47]

<ivel|E>

i have 4 GB of space

[00:47]

<ivel|E>

i use 10 MB or so...maybe a bit more

[00:47]

<ivel|E>

i run a few sites for some peoples

[00:47]

<ivel|E>

gotta go

[00:47]

then why did you get the developer package?

[00:47]

later

[00:47]

<ivel|E>

dinner time

[00:47]

<ivel|E>

it's the pro package

[00:47]

<ivel|E>

with benefits

[00:47]

gotcha

[01:03]

hey

[01:05]

<ivel|E>

what's new on the neuros front?

[01:05]

<ivel|E>

i've been outta the loop

[01:05]

<ivel|E>

[work consumes me...]

[01:06]

FLAC and MPC could be coming soon

[01:06]

<ivel|E>

i see

[01:06]

<ivel|E>

any good places to pay to download?

[01:06]

* SmrtJustin is excited about FLAC

[01:10]

* SmrtJustin is ashamed to say allofmp3.com

[01:11]

* noiz77 likes allofmp3.com, except they dont offer a linux download client :(

[01:11]

yeah but you can use the web interface

[01:11]

no one offers a linux client

[01:12]

yeah, but it would be cool if they did

[01:12]

yeah it would, but not very likely

[01:12]

i tried the windows version in wine a while ago, worked ok, but i was never able to dl anything :(

[01:12]

hmm

[01:14]

<ivel|E>

well there is that one there....

[01:15]

?

[01:15]

crazy, theres a band named after my nick... songs.allofmp3.com

or an album

lol

later

dinner time

later

<ivel|E>

<ivel|E>

but the issue is that there's not a lot of material there.

[01:20]

how much do they charge?

[01:22]

<ivel|E>

.99 for ogg and 1.24 for flac

[01:22]

more than allofmp3

[01:22]

<Koron>

allofmp3 is hardly legal :-p

[01:22]

yeah lol

[01:22]

<Koron>

maybe in russia, but that is still a dubious claim

[01:23]

problem is that I can use ogg, cuz my bros iPod wont take it

[01:23]

w/out a reencode

[01:25]

<CiTay>

noiz77, how big is that site again?

[01:25]

<CiTay>

altogether

[01:25]

<iswm>

SmrtJustin, but it's illegal to share your music with your brother!!!!

[01:25]

<ivel|E>

but FLAC ----> mp3 is ok

[01:26]

yeah, but a pain

[01:26]

I have a program to do it, but it takes a lot of room to store FLACs

[01:26]

I originally was gonna do everything in FLAC and downcode it to mp3 to put on our mp3 players when we needed it, but its a large pain

[01:33]

<ivel|E>

yeah

[01:34]

lol

[01:34]

oops wrong window

[02:35]

<Yono>

hey ivel

[20:52]

<Starkey-treo>

DeepB, are you there?

[20:56]

<DeepB>

yep

[20:56]

<Starkey-treo>

quick question for you

[20:57]

<Starkey-treo>

what was that page that you generated for the fw code?

[20:57]

<Starkey-treo>

that describes different files and stuff

[20:57]

<Starkey-treo>

you made it months ago

[20:57]

<DeepB>

err.. the doxygen docs?

[20:58]

<Starkey-treo>

put it in wiki I think...

[20:58]

<Starkey-treo>

yes

[20:58]

<Yono>

hello DeepB, Starkey

[20:58]

<Starkey-treo>

I couldn't remember the name

[20:58]

<DeepB>

it should be still there

[20:58]

<DeepB>

check my personal wiki topic

[20:58]

<DeepB>

there should be a link to it

[20:59]

<Yono>

neuros-firmware.sourceforge.net

[20:59]

hey, you know how the gb fw allows you to play weak sound through the headphone out while ncast is being used

[20:59]

<Yono>

there you go

[20:59]

<Starkey-treo>

I found it

[20:59]

<Starkey-treo>

thanks!

[20:59]

is it actually impossible to be able to adjust the headphone volume higher, or is it just a lot of work to put that added functionality into the fw

[21:00]

<Starkey-treo>

thanks for the info

[21:00]

<DeepB>

Starkey-treo: talk to me when you get to a real machine, so i can forward you some files you may need

[21:00]

<Starkey-treo>

I don't know solomon

[21:01]

<Starkey-treo>

hehe

[21:01]

<Starkey-treo>

i'm moving soon

[21:01]

<Starkey-treo>

i'll have more time to harass you next week

[21:03]

<DeepB>

great

[21:03]

<Starkey-treo>

or you can email me at seanstarkey@earthlink.net

[21:04]

<Starkey-treo>

gotta run!

[21:04]

<DeepB>

i'd really love to see real proffesionals working on the fw, instead of my crappy stuff

[21:05]

<DeepB>

solomon: afaik, you can't rite now

[21:06]

DeepB: yeah, i'm just curious if that's because of hardware limitations or just "it hasn't been coded yet"

[21:07]

btw, anyone know if the DA255 does full duplex?

[21:08]

<DeepB>

no real hw limitations, it just hasn't been coded since it would involve loading at the same time two sections of the code that are mutually exclusive rite now

[21:10]

ah

[21:10]

someday i'm going to stop wishing i could hack on the neuros fw and just start doing it

[21:11]

<DeepB>

and the thing that stops you from doing it is...

[21:11]

<DeepB>

the windoze thing?

[21:11]

DeepB: nah, i am just a busy beaver and i hardly know C

[21:11]

DeepB: i'm a shade tree programmer

[21:12]

DeepB: i have fixed some programs in minor ways before.. and written a C hello world program.. and some python and bash scripts

[21:12]

<DeepB>

a hello world C program? that should be enough

[21:13]

DeepB: yeah, enough to get the firmware to say "hello world" anyway ;)

[21:13]

<Yono>

lol

[21:13]

<DeepB>

in fact, if you were a skilled, wizard C programmer, you would start bitching about the ways are actually coded on the firmware

[21:14]

<DeepB>

s/ways/things/

[21:14]

DeepB: the main thing is time, i have filled up my life with other stuff that i value even more than what i wish my neuros would do :)

[21:14]

DeepB: i have reduced myself to the status of former geek

[21:14]

<Yono>

uh oh

[21:14]

<DeepB>

a smart move, indeed

[21:14]

yup :)

[21:15]

it all started when i started having friends..

[21:15]

j/k

[21:15]

<Yono>

grr my comps freezing

[21:15]

<Yono>

bbl

[21:15]

do you know if the DA255 does full duplex?

[21:16]

<DeepB>

hahaha.. other sex friends? man that's bizarre for a geek ;)

[21:16]

there are a good number of cool things one could do with the n3 if it could do a handful of its functions at the same time

[21:16]

i noticed somebody pointed out the idea of FM walkie talkies :)

[21:17]

<DeepB>

i dunno, but i know it is capable of recording and playing the stuff out of the headphones at a time, so it should be

[21:17]

what, you mean the n2 is?

[21:17]

i was under the impression it was not

[21:18]

perhaps it just couldn't actually process both in real time because of its lack of cpu

[21:18]

<DeepB>

FM walkie-talkies... with a 50ft range, when lucky.. i don't see the point

[21:18]

DeepB: just fun :)

[21:18]

DeepB: and actually in an office environment that is both fun and slightly useful

[21:18]

<DeepB>

just shout, for chrissake!

[21:19]

DeepB: i do data entry and one of my good friends at work has a neuros, and another is really digging it

[21:19]

DeepB: and they don't allow cell phones in there... i am sure they would freak out if they saw walkie talkies.. so we could use the neuros to smuggle in a pair ;P

[21:19]

DeepB: today i realized that i can use the neuros to annoy people

[21:20]

DeepB: just set ncast to broadcast to the FM frequency they are listening to on their radio in the cubicle next to you :)

[21:21]

<DeepB>

hehe, old game, i tried it while waiting on traffic lights

[21:21]

<DeepB>

lotsa fun

[21:22]

hehe

[21:22]

how did you know what station to do?

[21:22]

also, mic in + fm broadcast = ameteur remote microphone

[21:22]

mic in + headphone out = corded mic

[21:23]

<DeepB>

my car had a radio too, and you can usually guess the station from the tunes, so it was easy

[21:23]

or line in + headphone out / fm broadcast = higher quality corded / remote microphone

[21:24]

<Koron>

you hooligans

[21:24]

audio source + line in + fm broadcaster = an fm broadcaster for any other portable device

[21:24]

that could be extremely useful

[21:24]

<Koron>

mic + neurocast would be most excellent though

[21:24]

yeah and fun

[21:25]

here's something i was toying with last night that theoretically could be done now

[21:25]

<DeepB>

mic/line-in + neurocast .. i think that's feasible

[21:25]

the microphone is always on and recording, cutting at 30 seconds

[21:26]

that way if i decide on a whim that i want to save something that someone said less than 30 seconds ago, i hit a button to start keeping the recording

[21:26]

that would only ever use the flash, so it wouldn't be horribly bad on the battery

[21:27]

<DeepB>

TiVo on-the-go

[21:27]

yeah.. you could tivo your life :)

[21:27]

and why not implement radio tivo, for that matter

[21:27]

let me pause the radio, and continue recording as it continues

[21:27]

<Koron>

yeah

[21:27]

<DeepB>

yeah, a circular buffer

[21:27]

<Koron>

fast forward through the commercials :-p

[21:28]

hehe yeah, if i have had it paused long enough to be behind that far :)

[21:28]

<Koron>

here in the U.S. commercial breaks and unbearably long

[21:28]

<Koron>

over the past 5-10 years they have probably double in length

[21:29]

<DeepB>

could TiVo work for XM radio receivers?

[21:29]

DeepB: i don't see why not

[21:30]

neuros needs to get xm :D

[21:30]

can anyone help me with sorune

[21:30]

<DeepB>

no XM here on spain atm

[21:31]

bhn5550: i can

[21:32]

ok i just downloaded 0.5 for windows and it wont run

[21:33]

it pops up for a second then closes

[21:33]

ok, how about you go to forums.sorune.com and try and post a detailed description of whats happening and then the creator will be able to answer your question

[21:33]

hopefully

[21:33]

DeepB: how about neuros kareoke? broadcast music and the mic input to FM at the same time :)

[21:34]

that needs to be the next firmware update NA puts out

[21:34]

then everybody will get super super pissed

[21:34]

karaoke but no gapless playback :)

[21:34]

oh, and remove ogg vorbis support

[21:35]

you know, april 1 is coming up

[21:35]

they should do something like that

[21:35]

<DeepB>

solomon: err... so, the friends you talked about earlier are that kind of friends? karaoke friends? dude, drop them... get back to the light side

[21:35]

release a duplicate firmware, but bump up the revision number and in the release notes put something like: changes: * removed ogg vorbis support * added microsoft DRM support

[21:36]

DeepB: hehe i am not into karaoke at all but i was trying to think of some reason to use mic, music, and fm broadcast at the same time :)

[21:37]

<Koron>

a mic broadcast would be the best way to freak out the people in the car next to you

[21:38]

Koron: in my experience, war neuros'ing doesn't actually broadcast the neuros's output to the station they are listening to, their station is too high powered

[21:38]

<Koron>

well

[21:38]

Koron: it just kills the station

[21:38]

<Koron>

what if you hooked up an external antenna?

[21:38]

Koron: maybe :)

[21:38]

Koron: and actually i didn't have my neuros plugged into my car at the time

[21:39]

Koron: it was operating just on the battery.. and i know it does better when plugged into a power source.. so maybe that would help

[21:39]

<DeepB>

yep, it works beter when grounded

[21:39]

<Koron>

anyone have any clue why it transmits better with my hand over it? a grounding thing as well?

[21:39]

<Koron>

I've seen other people mention it as well

[21:40]

<Koron>

although that wouldn't really ground it

[21:40]

<Koron>

so no.

[21:40]

<gman>

hey deepb are u gonna release a new firmware any time soon

[21:40]

<DeepB>

your body acts as an antenna for sympathy

[21:41]

<DeepB>

gman: could be, i do not have a strict roadmap

[21:43]

<DeepB>

but to give you a glimpse of what's coming next... limited AudioScrobbler support (will need a external app)

[21:43]

<gman>

so do u have any idea when the next firmware will come

[21:44]

<DeepB>

nope, i do not

[21:44]

somebody put the freaking log thing in the subject grr

[21:45]

<gman>

whats audioscrobbler anyway

[21:46]

i can't remember... but you could probably stfw :)

[21:46]

kinda hard to explain

[21:46]

just go to there website

[21:48]

<DeepB>

gman: utterly oversimplified: like a blog for your music

[21:48]

<gman>

thanks, sorry im new to all this

[21:51]

<Starkey-treo>

DeepB, quick question

[21:52]

* DeepB sees Starkey typing slowly on his tiny machine

[21:52]

<Starkey-treo>

hehe

[21:53]

<Starkey-treo>

i'm getting pretty good at this thing

[21:53]

<Starkey-treo>

Q: what is the entry point of the code?

[21:53]

<DeepB>

congrats, i just can't stand small keyboards ;)

[21:53]

<Starkey-treo>

what file/fcn?

[21:53]

<DeepB>

wait

[21:54]

<DeepB>

SYSTEM/SYS_main.c

[21:54]

<Starkey-treo>

excellent

[21:54]

<Starkey-treo>

thanks

[21:54]

<DeepB>

np

[21:54]

<Starkey-treo>

I should wiki this info

[21:55]

<DeepB>

void SYS_main( void )

[21:55]

<DeepB>

that should be the entry function

[21:55]

<DeepB>

while(1)

[21:56]

<Starkey-treo>

I see it

[21:56]

<Starkey-treo>

they are always while (1)

[21:56]

<Starkey-treo>

hehe

[21:57]

<Starkey-treo>

then switch on events

[21:58]

<DeepB>

yep, the RTOS is behind

[21:59]

anyone know a good CVS client program for linux?

[21:59]

<Starkey-treo>

windows and X programs are the same way

[21:59]

<DeepB>

noiz77: cvs

[21:59]

<DeepB>

that was easy ;)

[22:00]

<Starkey-treo>

you want GUI noiz?

[22:00]

yeah

[22:00]

<Starkey-treo>

kids these days and their guis

[22:00]

<DeepB>

KDE? Cervisia

[22:00]

gnome here

[22:00]

<Starkey-treo>

cervisia

[22:00]

k

[22:00]

<Starkey-treo>

that's the only viable option

[22:01]

thanks

[22:01]

<DeepB>

yep, gCVS kinda sucks

[22:03]

nuts, cervisia isnt in portage...

[22:03]

<Starkey-treo>

command line

[22:03]

<Starkey-treo>

do it

[22:04]

ok, then whats the command so i can connect to the neuros-firmware server and get the source?

[22:05]

<DeepB>

cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/neuros-firmware co -P neuros-firmware

[22:06]

thanks

[22:17]

<gman>

are there going to be any new games in future firmwares

[22:18]

maybe

[22:18]

you could code one if you wanted ;)

[22:19]

I cant wait till neutris is in GarBage/Bernard fw

[22:20]

<gman>

i dont no a thing about coding

[22:20]

well, you could always learn :)

[22:20]

my guess is the only other games that would be made for the neuros would be from the open source community

[22:21]

so there probably wont be any more for a while

[22:23]

<gman>

is it easy to learn how to

[22:24]

lets just say i know a little programming, and all i can do is change the text in the main menu...

[22:25]

<gman>

ok then i think ill pass on learning

[22:26]

but i dont know the language that its written in, i only know another computer language, so it acually might be easier if you just learn C

[22:26]

<DeepB>

gman: wow man, you tried very hard.. no one can blame you ;)

[22:27]

<gman>

well how would i learn, just teach myself?

[22:28]

<DeepB>

well... i did

[22:28]

<gman>

u taught yourself? How long did it take you?

[22:29]

<DeepB>

well.. let's say i haven't managed to graduate myself yet

[22:29]

C is not that hard if you know how to program, generally, in another compiled language

[22:30]

<gman>

i dont know any computer language

[22:31]

<Koron>

I started with PHP and then learning C wasn't that hard :-p

[22:31]

<DeepB>

but i'll have to agree at one point, the neuros firmware is, by far, the worst project to begin learning with

[22:31]

C vs. PHP is a BIG diff

[22:31]

<Koron>

indeed it is

[22:31]

<Koron>

I actually did C++ after that

[22:31]

<DeepB>

PHP is oo, C is not

[22:31]

<Koron>

and then stepped down to C

[22:31]

plus, with C, you're often learning the compiler just as much as the language

[22:32]

<Koron>

I am actually programming a PIC microcontroller with a C compiler now

[22:32]

<Koron>

definitely didn't want to do that with assembly :-p

[22:32]

<Starkey-treo>

C is on an embedded platform is very unforgiving and is not very good for learning

[22:32]

I'm not too fond of people learning C++ and then C, personally

[22:32]

<gman>

why cant the firmware just be written in english so it would be easier to make your own changes

[22:32]

<DeepB>

Starkey-treo: admin biatch, please opt-in the project for donations ;)

[22:32]

<Koron>

what about java and then c++? (that's how it is at my school for CS students)

[22:32]

I learned C, then had C++ forced on me in Engineering school by the comp-sci dept.

[22:32]

<Koron>

I think it's terrible to do Java first

[22:33]

<Starkey-treo>

ok deepb

[22:33]

<Starkey-treo>

java isn't terrible for learning

[22:33]

<Starkey-treo>

its very forgiving

[22:33]

I agree w/ Starkey

[22:33]

<Koron>

well, let's just say that CS students here have a lot of trouble with memory management

[22:34]

<Koron>

I suppose it depends on how you're learning it

[22:34]

<Koron>

at any rate, I need to run

[22:34]

<Koron>

adios

[22:34]

<Starkey-treo>

then C and C++ is even more difficult

[22:34]

I've developed a disdain for OO programming

[22:35]

<DeepB>

anyway, i feel very lost programming without an oo interface

[22:35]

<Starkey-treo>

gman, computers don't understand english

[22:35]

and I don't see it that much in the real world; dunno why it's tought so much

[22:35]

<DeepB>

damn, i even have encapsulated my SQL queries onto objects...

[22:36]

<Starkey-treo>

my last four jobs - nine years - did OO

[22:36]

gman: When you're as constrained for development time and CPU/storage resources as the N's firmware project was, code gets hacked and sloppy :(

[22:36]

<Starkey-treo>

i've seen *much* worse code then the firmware

[22:36]

Starkey-treo: well, I'm a driver developer...so not much OO there :)

[22:37]

<Starkey-treo>

yup, drivers shouldn't be in oo

[22:37]

well - I can't _really_ pass judgement on the N's FW, I've barely looked at it

[22:38]

(about 2 mins, maybe)

[22:38]

<DeepB>

two words

[22:38]

<DeepB>

it is gross

[22:38]

<DeepB>

well, maybe three

[22:39]

<Starkey-treo>

hehe, its not that bad

[22:40]

<DeepB>

i do not have much background for comparison, since i only have sneaked at another firmware code (RockBoxx)

[22:40]

<DeepB>

but the latter is much cleaner

[22:41]

<Starkey-treo>

probably, it was written by commitee

[22:41]

<gman>

this is off the subject but are there any plans on putting a text reader on neuros

[22:41]

<Starkey-treo>

if you make it gman!

[22:41]

<DeepB>

gman: yep, they are, but again, no real roadmap

[22:42]

<gman>

would it be open source?

[22:42]

<DeepB>

nero is cooking a nice browser, so we'll have a starting point

[22:43]

<DeepB>

*file browsah

[22:43]

<Starkey-treo>

text reader is #10 on bugzilla

[22:44]

<Starkey-treo>

time for a walk!

[22:46]

<DeepB>

i even have nice ideas for text input based on repetition/timeout (like cell phones), like 1->vocals; 2->b-g, etc...

[22:48]

<gman>

if neuros got a text reader could programs like apod agent be used on it

[22:48]

<DeepB>

what's that?

[22:49]

<gman>

www.ipodsoft.com