Log from #neuros IRC channel

The 2.26.1.7 release fixes the problem. I have an early unit (S/N BA000730H3 if that helps) which did not recognize the USB 1.1 under 2.26.1.6, but did recognize it under the official version 2.25. I could swap back and forth, formatting the NAND each time: USB recognized properly on 2.25, and was ignored on 2.26.1.6. As soon as I fixed the link to the new firmware I loaded it, and the new non-animated USB screen came right up.

[02:28]

<Yono>

or course, .7 has a car mode bug I think

[02:28]

<Yono>

try pressing UP+Play twice in a row and then connecting again

[02:29]

* [Chameleon] is back (gone 04:35:08)

[02:29]

<Yono>

hey cham

[02:29]

<[Chameleon]>

y0

[02:29]

<Yono>

you get my im?

[02:29]

<[Chameleon]>

got your message

[02:29]

<[Chameleon]>

thx

[02:29]

<Yono>

np

[02:29]

yono: while it running?

[02:29]

of course

[02:29]

<Yono>

once while running

[02:29]

<Yono>

second while off

[02:30]

ok

[02:30]

<Yono>

makes sure its all shut off

[02:30]

sure you don't mean down+play? it shut off and isn't turning back on...

[02:30]

<Yono>

nope

[02:31]

<Yono>

UP+Play twice, then try USB

[02:31]

<[Chameleon]>

Yono: I just bookmarked the RSS feed in Firefox. I've got it at work, too.

[02:31]

worst case I remove the controller and connect to the BP alone, right? (crosses fingers)

[02:31]

should it turn back on when I do that?

[02:31]

<Yono>

Cham:so did I, but i wasn't sure

[02:31]

<[Chameleon]>

yup

[02:31]

<[Chameleon]>

cool

[02:31]

<[Chameleon]>

I'm glad you told me

[02:31]

<Yono>

Chawn: yes, in worst case

[02:31]

<[Chameleon]>

so, 2000 GMT is like 12 PM PST?

[02:32]

<Yono>

its 3PM EST, so 4 hour diff, right?

[02:32]

<Yono>

*3

[02:32]

<Yono>

CST,MNT,PST, yep

[02:32]

<[Chameleon]>

I might yeah

[02:32]

<[Chameleon]>

er

[02:32]

<[Chameleon]>

just yeah

[02:32]

<[Chameleon]>

:)

[02:32]

<Yono>

anyway, I'll be back in about 15 mins

[02:33]

<Yono>

good luck chawn

[02:33]

<[Chameleon]>

I was about to say "I might be late since Church ends at noon"

[02:33]

Yono: didn't work. but, it shouldn't turn back on when I push up+play the second time, right?

[02:33]

Yono: thanks, I've been here before.

[02:33]

I wanted recording though under garbage

[02:34]

<[Chameleon]>

use the earlier firmware then

[02:34]

<[Chameleon]>

.6 seems to work.

[02:34]

yeah, .5 just locked up on me.

[02:35]

have you confirmed recording works on .6 (and USB communication)?

[02:35]

<[Chameleon]>

that was working for me

[02:35]

<Yono>

recording never stopped working

[02:35]

<[Chameleon]>

I had been running .6 for a long time

[02:35]

<Yono>

it just doesn't show up in the DB

[02:35]

<[Chameleon]>

recording stopped working in .7

[02:35]

<[Chameleon]>

yeah

[02:35]

<[Chameleon]>

well, that doesn't work.

[02:35]

<[Chameleon]>

:)

[02:35]

well, it .5 only locked up USB

[02:35]

<Yono>

which could be fixed with a file browser (cough*likenerochiaro*cough*)

[02:36]

.7 recording stopped after 1 sec if I remember correctly.

[02:36]

But maybe it was user error... ;-)

[02:36]

<[Chameleon]>

hmm, I dunno

[02:36]

<[Chameleon]>

probably

[02:40]

The reason I want recording is there's a great Air America show on from 7-9 am (San Diego)

[02:40]

Air America = Progressive Talk

[02:41]

I don't get up 'til 8 so I want to record it.

[02:42]

The guy's name is Stacey Taylor. He's not syndicated, but IMHO, he's the best mind on the radio..

[02:42]

...from that perspective (mine also)

[02:42]

Neuros Open "Mindset" = Progressive

[02:42]

<CiTay>

what does syndicated mean?

[02:43]

They broadcast nationwide instead of just locally

[02:43]

<CiTay>

ah

[02:43]

That's how you can listen to Stern in LA

[02:43]

CiTay: Have you heard of air america?

[02:43]

<CiTay>

no

[02:44]

are you interested in the underside of american politics?

[02:44]

I've heard of air america

[02:44]

<CiTay>

i got some X-Files seasons on my HD.. other than that, not really

[02:44]

That lady from florida really annoys me (hope I'm not offending a loyal fan)

[02:44]

<CiTay>

:P

[02:44]

There syndicated shows leave something to be desired, IMHO.

[02:45]

I forget her name, but she sux.

[02:45]

CiTay: ;-)

[02:45]

The comedian guy is never on when I can listen

[02:45]

Al Franken...he's entertaining, but I don't like his strict affiliation with the Dems.

[02:45]

I'm not a Dem...

[02:46]

<CiTay>

how come you got weird 4-letter names for the stations

[02:46]

<CiTay>

i always wondered

[02:46]

Chawn420: Yeah, I gave up on them after the last election

[02:46]

Chawn420: they are clueless

[02:46]

Dunno...they're called "call letters" I believe.

[02:47]

gernika: I agree. They are being pushed to the right because they think true progressive thinking is unpopular.

[02:47]

<Yono>

yeah, call letters

[02:48]

<Yono>

The ones I know of usually start with "K" or" W"

[02:48]

gernika: Once I get organized on recording, I'll give you FTP access and you can listen to Stacey.

[02:48]

Chawn420: indeed. They definitely need a policy overhaul and by that I don't meen everything the conservatives are for except abortion

[02:48]

Chawn420: Stacey?

[02:49]

sorry, I mentioned above. Stacey Taylor a local talk show host out of San Diego.

[02:49]

ah ok

[02:49]

He has no affiliation with anybody...

[02:49]

<CiTay>

aha! en.wikipedia.org

[02:49]

damn

[02:50]

He called himself "Libertarian" when he used to be on fox...

[02:50]

but I think that was to appear to be on the "right"....whatever that means.

[02:50]

anyway, I gotta run, gut I'd like to continue this conversation some other time.

[02:50]

sure thing

[02:50]

gernika, you're in the US right? about where do you live...?

[02:51]

Chawn420: I'm in (but not from) Baltimore

[02:51]

Cool. I'm not from SD either. Vermont originally.

[02:51]

Anyway, Cheers.

[02:51]

l8r

[02:53]

<Yono>

CiTay: thanks for the link, that explains the K/W thing!

[02:53]

<Yono>

missed him :-P

[02:54]

Yono/Cham, thanks for the help. USB works with .7. l8r

[02:54]

<Yono>

bye

[02:56]

<[Chameleon]>

k

[11:11]

* veritas waves

[18:11]

<Bebop>

AmericanTechPusher, are you around?

[18:12]

<Bebop>

I'm considering ordering a Neuros from you today or tomorrow. Are you caught up on orders, or is there still a delay?

[18:13]

The backorder is over, but its going to take a week or more to get through all the orders

[18:13]

Is this an interantional or domestic order?

[18:13]

<Bebop>

Domestic

[18:14]

<Bebop>

Reason I ask: I'm moving out of state sometime in the next week to week & a half.

[18:14]

<Bebop>

If I can get it before I move, great - but if there's a chance it'd take longer than a week or so, I'll have to wait.

[18:15]

I suggest you waiit then

[18:15]

wait even

[18:15]

What model are you getting?

[18:15]

<Bebop>

Ok. Hmm, actually, it's a pretty close delivery - you're in NY right? Does that open any options, maybe for a few extra bucks? Not sure what kind of shipping you usually use.

[18:16]

<Bebop>

Well, I'm a bit torn on what to get, but I'm leaning toward the 30 or 40gb HD...

[18:16]

<Bebop>

Leaning most toward 30.

[18:16]

We are in NY, but the player will come from IL

[18:17]

<Bebop>

Oh, straight from the company huh. Ok.

[18:17]

<Bebop>

Do they offer any extra shipping options?

[18:20]

The 40GB is the better value. It depends what musci collection

[18:21]

You can upgrade to 2-day or first day

[18:21]

<Bebop>

I've been ripping my CD collection for a few days now. I'd say I'm already around 20-25GB, though I'm almost done.

[18:21]

I really suggest you wait to you get to your new address

[18:21]

I suggest the 40GB then

[18:21]

<Bebop>

I could probably fit all my CDs in 30GB without a problem, but I'd like some room to grow too.

[18:21]

Just becuase you have room to grow

[18:22]

<Bebop>

Hmm. How much is the cost on 2-day?

[18:22]

<Bebop>

I'm considering rushing it mostly b/c otherwise I'll be stuck with radio during the whole drive. Unless they've started putting CD players in U-Hauls ;-)

[18:25]

$20. where you located

[18:26]

The problem is will it ship in time regardless of the shipping. I don't know how fast they will go through the orders

[18:26]

<Bebop>

Yeah, that's what I'd be worried about.

[18:26]

<Bebop>

Hmm.

[18:27]

<Bebop>

Maybe I'll try giving them a call later on and see if they've got any idea how long the wait is now. Erm, they're probably not open weekends, huh?

[18:28]

No they are not

[18:28]

I suggest the following

[18:28]

Either wait and order after you move

[18:28]

Or place the order and tell me what day it has to ship by

[18:28]

<Bebop>

Ah, I see. And if it can't ship by then, ship to the new address?

[18:28]

If it does not ship by that date, I can change the address

[18:29]

<Bebop>

Makes sense.

[18:29]

<Bebop>

Ok, well, the actual date for the move isn't set just yet. I'll be finding it out later tonight or tomorrow, hopefully.

[18:29]

If you place the order there would be a chance you could get it for your trip

[18:29]

<Bebop>

So I'll get back to you once that's taken care of.

[18:30]

<Bebop>

Place it where - directly through the company?

[18:30]

Through me hopedfully

[18:30]

Or American Techpushers

[18:30]

<Bebop>

Well, that's my preference too.

[18:30]

<Bebop>

Your prices are better, and I've heard good things about your product support. (That you're on here as often as you are speaks well for it.)

[18:32]

<adamslt_>

Bebop: bought from him, he's a good guy

[18:32]

<Bebop>

:-)

[18:33]

<Bebop>

Glad to hear it. I get the impression on the forums that he doesn't have *any* dissatisfied customers - at least, not ones that aren't just dissatisfied by the Neuros itself (not his fault).

[18:33]

<noiz>

Bebop: yeah, i bought from him too, very good service :)

[18:33]

The sooner you place order the better, if there a chance you can get before your trip

[18:34]

Thanks guys.. You are to nice

[18:35]

<noiz>

well, the real reason that im here is to try and get someone to help me get audio to work for a dvd im trying to play in linux, anyone here that could help me?

[18:35]

<Bebop>

Ok. Well, like I said, I have to get the last word on the move date. So I'll have to get back to you.

[18:35]

<noiz>

trying to do this before Joe comes on and it gets really busy

[18:35]

<Bebop>

Hehe

[18:35]

<iswm>

noiz, does your audio not work in general, or just the dvd?

[18:36]

<Bebop>

Ok, I'm out of here. Thanks, ATP. Hopefully I'll be giving you money soon :-)

[18:36]

<noiz>

iswm: xmms and xvid and divx movies all play audio fine, its just dvds

[18:36]

<iswm>

Do you have alsa-mixer?

[18:37]

<noiz>

with xmms i use the oss driver

[18:38]

<iswm>

Which distro do you use?

[18:38]

<noiz>

debian

[18:38]

<noiz>

should i get "wmix - Dockapp mixer for OSS or ALSA"?

[18:39]

<iswm>

Might be of use.

[18:40]

<iswm>

There are volume controls for different devices.. One that it needs may be muted or way down.

[18:45]

<noiz>

cool, it works now, for some reason i had to turn the microphone volume up for it to work...

[19:46]

sup

[19:47]

is anyone here?

[19:49]

<noiz>

hey

[20:14]

hi yono

[20:14]

<Yono>

hey nerochiaro

[20:14]

<Yono>

what's up?

[20:15]

i think i managed to fixed a bug in the file browser, i'm committing to CVS now. was the "beep noise on FFWD and freeze" thingie reported by pwarren

[20:15]

i seem to remember you got it too

[20:20]

<Yono>

did you see my messages to u from yesterday?

[20:21]

yes, was it about this bug, IIRC. i seem to remember you mentioned a "noise" or something

[20:21]

<Yono>

yes, it made a strange sound when loading folders

[20:22]

mmh, that's another thing then. what sound are you talking about ? can you describe it a little better ?

[20:24]

<Yono>

hmm

[20:24]

<Yono>

I was kind of like the neuros was doing something it shouldn't have been doing

[20:26]

mmh, not much helpful as a description. the only sounds i hear when browsing thru files are the seeking noises of the hard disk. but you get these also when you use 2.28, or when you do anything else that involve the HDD

[20:26]

<Yono>

no, its different than the sounds in 2.28

[20:27]

is it like the sound you have when you connect USB2 and copy some files over ?

[20:27]

<Yono>

no

[20:27]

<Yono>

let me load it on the neuros in front of me

[20:28]

<Yono>

hmm interesting...

[20:28]

<Yono>

it doesn't make the sound on my N2 unit...

[20:30]

i don't know how my stuff will work on N1 units. i don't have one, so i can't test on it

[20:30]

and honesty, even if i had, i don't know how many time i would invest on them hunting for non-trivial N1-dependent bugs.

[20:30]

<Yono>

thats strange

[20:31]

<Yono>

oh well, we'll have to get it tested on N1 units now I guess

[20:31]

but out of curiosity, if you have 2 neuros units there, can you try and use one to record the sound that comes out of the other, and send it to me. i'm curious to hear "the sound the neuros should not make" ;)

[20:32]

<Yono>

I don't have my N1 unit with me now, sorry :(

[20:32]

ok, no problem then. it was just curiosity, after all

[20:32]

<Yono>

I'll do that later tho

[20:33]

thanks. you know my gmail address, send it there

[20:41]

just received a phone call, turns out i have to be out in half an hour, maybe less. so i could not be here for this evening's meetup it seems.

[20:42]

<Yono>

nerochiaro: thats alright, theres always the log

[20:43]

<unknown_lamer>

what was the UTC of the meeting again?

[20:43]

20:00

[20:43]

<Yono>

20

[20:43]

<unknown_lamer>

so in fifteen mintes?

[20:43]

<Yono>

yep

[20:43]

more or less

[20:44]

* unknown_lamer is the amazing UTC->EST man

[20:44]

<Yono>

3PM :)

[20:44]

<unknown_lamer>

It's walways a good idea to memorize your UTC offset

[20:47]

<Yono>

-5

[20:47]

<Yono>

for me

[20:47]

<unknown_lamer>

sometimes -4

[20:47]

<unknown_lamer>

Ugh, -4 in a few weeks

[20:47]

daylight savings time is evil

[20:47]

<unknown_lamer>

god damnit will that suck ass

[20:48]

<unknown_lamer>

Going to sleep an hour earlier is a bitch

[20:48]

<unknown_lamer>

It'

[20:48]

<unknown_lamer>

s actually easier to just shift your schedule forward 23 hours over the course of a week

[20:48]

<Yono>

whos the one that doesn't follow it?

[20:48]

<unknown_lamer>

Which isn't possible unless you're on spring break :-)

[20:48]

<Yono>

arizona?

[20:48]

<unknown_lamer>

most of Indiana

[20:48]

<unknown_lamer>

I went there last summer for one day on tour

[20:49]

<unknown_lamer>

and for the most part were in CST but in a couple of counties it was CDT

[20:49]

<unknown_lamer>

Confused the Hell out of my cell phone :-)

[20:51]

<Yono>

;)

[20:52]

<unknown_lamer>

hah, yes

[20:52]

<unknown_lamer>

I was one of the last people to snag the indecision 2004 torrent from tvtorrents

[20:52]

<unknown_lamer>

I left it overnight and it finished ... b ut when I got back I was the only person connected

[20:53]

<unknown_lamer>

I was trying to be a good torrenter

[20:53]

<unknown_lamer>

but noooo everyone had to disconnected. All two.

[20:53]

<Yono>

lol

* Starkey waves

oi starkey

good day Joe

<noiz>

hey Joe

[21:01]

hello everyone

[21:01]

hello

[21:02]

any thoughts on how this time works out for the group?

[21:02]

<Yono>

hey Joe

[21:02]

<Yono>

hi Starkey

[21:02]

I know we've got folks from all over the planet here

[21:03]

<Yono>

CiTay, Seed, DeepB, and nerochiaro are in europe, I think the rest of us are in the US

[21:03]

no one from asia?

[21:03]

seems no one

[21:04]

ok. Well as I mentioned on OdNA, I just wanted to start a discussion on the future of OS and Neuros

[21:04]

<Yono>

don't think so

[21:05]

and I think there are two primary areas to discuss. First is how we setup and structure a team (presumably in China)

[21:05]

in conjunction with the OS development team (you all)

[21:05]

and second, a discussion about hardware, TI v. other choices.

[21:06]

since not too much has been set yet, I thought would be a good time to get input on both those items from you.

[21:06]

<unknown_lamer>

why China?

[21:06]

<Yono>

cheaper

[21:07]

<unknown_lamer>

I will do DSP programming or food :)

[21:07]

<unknown_lamer>

er, for

[21:07]

Our group at my work has a team in China

[21:07]

well, that's a good question, actually there are three reasons for (and probably several against)

[21:07]

one, our head of firmware (michael gao) is from China.

[21:08]

two, our hardware development and manufacturing and etc is done in China

[21:08]

and three, it is cheaper than the US.

[21:09]

<Yono>

why china and not another different asian country?

[21:09]

reason 2 i guess

[21:09]

First two reasons. :)

[21:09]

yep.

[21:09]

<Yono>

it would still be near the hardware dev though, and I'd assume china isn't the only chinese speaking country

[21:10]

<Yono>

anyway

[21:10]

<Yono>

has your hw development always been in China?

[21:11]

no. we started it in the US.

[21:11]

but as you know that caused a lot of problems.

[21:12]

it took us 16 months to get out the first Neuros, at a cost of $4MM+

[21:13]

and then there were all the issues that you know with the unit.

[21:13]

damn, i really have to run. i wanted to partecipate in this, but society needs take precedence this time. bye

[21:13]

talk to you soon.

[21:13]

<Yono>

cya

[21:14]

<Yono>

how long did it take to make up the costs of the creation of the first?

[21:14]

well, I'd say we're still working on that :)\

[21:15]

basically, it's a sunk cost that's not really relevant today, except for the lessons that we learned.

[21:16]

<Yono>

when you say things like that, you seem like you'd make such a good blogger ;)

[21:16]

things like what?

[21:16]

<Yono>

except for the lessons that we learned.

[21:17]

well, yes, I'm writing an article on that very subject, maybe I will post it up there.

[21:17]

<Yono>

Starkey: how's the FLAC going?

[21:17]

<Yono>

Joe: that would be nice, thanks

[21:17]

Keep to the subject.

[21:17]

:)

[21:17]

so, that's kind of pertinent here actually, the biggest lessons from all that experience are essentially that we should "release early and often" so to speak.

[21:18]

<Yono>

ugh "often"

[21:18]

<Yono>

reminds me of the ipod

[21:18]

it's really struck me when reading the cathedral and the bazaar.

[21:19]

You saw the initial releases of NDBM. I was on a 2-3 a week release cycle.

[21:19]

well, we're still looking for continuity, not to obsolete old models any more than necessary.

[21:19]

Software is easier to release than hardware though.

[21:19]

<Yono>

yes, it would be horrible to have to buy the new product to get any new functionality

[21:19]

and primarily I think that mantra pertains more to software adn firmare than hardware.

[21:19]

<Yono>

however with open firmware, this wouldn't be the case

[21:21]

that being said, it's hard to imagine that a hardware platform would last much beyond 2 years. Maybe 3 at the outside.

[21:21]

silicon moves along at a pretty good pace.

[21:21]

<Yono>

don't tell that to the newton zealots

[21:23]

well, obviously with open firmware, no one forces anyone off an old platform, they can enjoy it as long as they want.

[21:23]

<Yono>

yep

[21:23]

but you can see the limitations just dealing with the current Neuros, there are compelling reasons to move to different hardware.

[21:24]

<Yono>

of course, trying to navigate while using MyFi is quite a pain

[21:24]

<Yono>

and the size factor just doesn't make as much sense anymore to most

[21:24]

exactly and programming for a TI DSP is tough

[21:24]

<[Chameleon]>

bah, I missed half of the conversation.

[21:24]

<Yono>

hello cham

[21:24]

<[Chameleon]>

dang

[21:24]

<[Chameleon]>

hi

[21:24]

<Yono>

loglibrary :)

[21:25]

which brings us to the second issue (takinig them out of order)

[21:25]

hi cham

[21:25]

<[Chameleon]>

hi JoeBorn

[21:26]

Should we stick with TI silicon or not? and if we stick with them, what should we ask for?

[21:26]

What leverage do you have to ask for anything?

[21:26]

<[Chameleon]>

Personally, I'm a fan of XScale.

[21:26]

My thinking is that I'll be making a pitch to some TI execs about what we're doing

[21:26]

Other than buying their stuff

[21:27]

<Yono>

and if they refuse to give back, ditch them :)

[21:27]

<[Chameleon]>

Starkey: considering the volume of products used by NA, it's likely they do have some clout.

[21:27]

Hmm... I don't know. TI is a big company.

[21:27]

well, I think the main "leverage" is about pitching the momentum that's behind Open source

[21:27]

and the "don't miss the boat" argument.

[21:28]

<Yono>

I agree with chameleon

[21:28]

Well that is valid

[21:28]

the NAL volume to be honest, is probably not a huge driver, remember TI sells to cell phone manufacturers, etc