Log from #neuros IRC channel

<Yono>

chreekat: in C, typedef enum goes in main(), right?

<unknown_lamer>

Yono: No.

<unknown_lamer>

typedef's occur outside of function bodies.

<Yono>

before function prototypes then?

<unknown_lamer>

Yeah

<zion>

they can occurr anywhere

<zion>

unless thats a c++ only feature, which I doubt

<unknown_lamer>

Well

<unknown_lamer>

typedef can only occur in the global scope

<unknown_lamer>

So you can use enum by itself inside of a function

<zion>

I have typedefs in function scope

<unknown_lamer>

Hrm

<unknown_lamer>

That is a lie of the liberal media.

* unknown_lamer <== only uses C for school now, does Lisp the rest of the time

<zion>

that might be a c++ only feature, but I would be really shocked

<unknown_lamer>

It probably is C++ only

[01:36]

<zion>

hrmmmmm

[01:36]

* zion tries

[01:36]

<unknown_lamer>

Oh, I guess it does work. oops/.

[01:37]

<zion>

yep

[01:37]

<unknown_lamer>

Stupid me

[01:37]

<unknown_lamer>

Time for dinner.

[01:40]

I was gonna say, I doubt there is anything special about the global scope

[01:51]

<unknown_lamer>

Well

[01:51]

<unknown_lamer>

It's not so much scope as where C allows things to go.

[01:51]

<unknown_lamer>

being the retarded language it is.

[02:25]

<zion>

thats a pretty bold statement about one of the most popular languages

<unknown_lamer>

It is.

<zion>

I assume that since you use lisp, you have become a zealot

<unknown_lamer>

It was designed on the PDP minicomputers. It is obsolete and shouldn't be used except for kernel programming.

<unknown_lamer>

No.

<unknown_lamer>

C is terrible.

<unknown_lamer>

C++ is only slightly better.

[02:27]

<zion>

and what do you consider a sane language?

[02:27]

<unknown_lamer>

Lisp, SML,

[02:27]

<unknown_lamer>

Haskell

[02:31]

<unknown_lamer>

Even something like Python.

[02:31]

<zion>

maybe you can help me get into lisp then... have been poking at it for a month or so

<zion>

I just don't get the various libs... how to install them and then use them

<unknown_lamer>

Common Lisp?

<zion>

have sbcl installed

<unknown_lamer>

Debian handles all of that for me

<zion>

I get the language, I just don't the 'system'

<unknown_lamer>

Yeah

<zion>

and if its not in debian?

<unknown_lamer>

I let Debian's common-lisp-controller deal with package installation and stuff

<unknown_lamer>

Well, I don't do much CL

<unknown_lamer>

I spend more time with Guile

[02:35]

<zion>

what I need is a "how to use lisp in the real world" doc

[02:35]

<zion>

all of them are purist/academic

<unknown_lamer>

paulgraham has stuff on that

<zion>

how do you manage large projects?

<zion>

a decent build system?

<unknown_lamer>

Modules

<unknown_lamer>

+ something like scons

<unknown_lamer>

* zion looks

<zion>

ah... its yet another make

[02:39]

<zion>

I have no issues with make

[02:39]

<zion>

or... another unnecessary dependency for users

[02:39]

<unknown_lamer>

Yeha

[02:43]

<zion>

I guess my problem with lisp is that it lives in its own little world outside of the rest of us. there is not ./configure && make && make install

[02:43]

<zion>

or at least a compliment

[02:43]

<zion>

and that is a *huge* con

[02:44]

<zion>

so... while lisp might be the ideal language, if it can't interface with the real world then its next to useless imo

[02:50]

<unknown_lamer>

Maybe.

[02:50]

<unknown_lamer>

The real world is overrated.

[02:51]

<Yono>

lol

[02:56]

lisp's problem, from my limited view, is that side-effects are a hack. But, maybe it was just introduce to me that way.

[02:56]

Really, I haven't seen it outside of one language class, and a little tinkering on the side

[03:06]

<unknown_lamer>

chreekat: You don't need side effects.

[03:06]

<unknown_lamer>

just create a new value

[03:07]

I meant side-effects that affect the machine state. read/write files, ports, register bits,

Of course, now is when you tell me such things are amply provided for by methods with which I'm not familiar. :)

ack! I'm ignoring my school work again.

<unknown_lamer>

Reading and writing ports/streams is easy.

bbl

[03:09]

<unknown_lamer>

But like ... modifying machine registers is bad style.

[03:09]

<unknown_lamer>

If you have to do stuff like that then you should write that low level code in C

[03:09]

<unknown_lamer>

and bind it into Lisp.

[23:01]

hi all

[23:01]

hi sgomes

[23:02]

<noiz>

hey sgomes

[23:03]

hey gernika, noiz :)

[23:03]

oh man, can't believe I missed the lisp/c/c++ discussion

[23:05]

hello sgomes

hey mbishop

are you the same sgomes I know from #hackermind?

hmm, no

there's anotther one?

oh, hmmm

jeez

you don't know lattera do you?

nope

guess I'm thinking of someone else

was it here on freenode?

#hackermind was on another network

ah, ok

<noiz>

anyone know if theres a way to mount a .bin file in linux instead of burning it on a cd? kinda like how you can mount a .iso file

loopback?

think that only works for .iso though

there are bin2iso converters I believe

I think you need cdemu

or yeah, you could convert

[23:09]

<noiz>

and what about a .img file, could i mount that

[23:09]

portage has bin2iso, dunno about .img

hmm, I don't think cdemu works with .img

anyway, cdemu is a bit of a hack

it's a kernel module

never compiled properly for me

[23:11]

I just gave up and converted the file to iso

[23:11]

<noiz>

googling said this should work, "mount -o loop foobar.img /mnt/image"

[23:11]

<noiz>

think it would?

no harm in trying, I guess

it does work for floppies

no idea about CDs though