[09:26]	<zerosum>	hiya
[15:03]	<JoshMalone>	man - I missed a big IRC organizing thread :)
[15:06]	<Inc>	YEH!
[15:07]	<Inc>	Where you been yo. you missed us trying to get op haha
[15:07]	<JoshMalone>	at least the topic got changed ;)
[15:07]	<JoshMalone>	I know - been off IRC for a few days
[15:07]	<Inc>	yeh udontknow as kind along with christel
[15:08]	<JoshMalone>	been busy at work and all
[15:08]	<Inc>	heh
[15:53]	<unknown_lamer>	mwhaaha, there is beer growing in my kitchen
[15:53]	<nerochiaro>	unknown_lamer: in a tank, i hope
[15:53]	<unknown_lamer>	Of course
[15:53]	<unknown_lamer>	a 6 gallon plastic bucket :-)
[15:54]	<unknown_lamer>	hooray, and I'
[15:54]	<unknown_lamer>	ll get paid for another contract right before it is time to brew a second batch
[15:54]	<unknown_lamer>	so I can afford to add a glass carboy to my collection
[15:55]	<nerochiaro>	what's a glass carboy ?
[15:55]	<JoshMalone>	nerochiaro: ATM, just the GUI, I think
[15:56]	<JoshMalone>	the audio I/O is bound to the DSP chip, which you can't use on a host
[15:56]	<JoshMalone>	BTW - this is all just gleaned from READMEs and stuff - never tried it on a board
[15:56]	<nerochiaro>	JoshMalone: it's already something interesting. i need to try to do that then
[15:56]	<unknown_lamer>	nerochiaro: northernbrewer.com
[15:57]	<nerochiaro>	JoshMalone: so i can try and give a test to these ideas i have floating for text input
[15:57]	<unknown_lamer>	nerochiaro: They work really well for secondary fermentation (to let the beer clarify without being over the dormant yeast for long times)
[15:57]	<nerochiaro>	unknown_lamer: isn't them regular glass jugs ?
[15:58]	<unknown_lamer>	nerochiaro: 5-7 gallon ones
[15:59]	<nerochiaro>	unknown_lamer: you plan to make a lot of beer :) have a name for tha brew yet ?
[16:00]	<unknown_lamer>	It was my First Attempt
[16:00]	<JoshMalone>	First Attempt beer - I like it
[16:00]	<JoshMalone>	if at first you dont succeed - sell it!
[16:01]	<nerochiaro>	yeah. it has that "potentially dangerous" touch to it that makes drinking it more tasty
[16:02]	<unknown_lamer>	unknownlamer.org
[16:02]	<PenguinOfDoom>	I once watched a movie about a beer-brewing community where some rebelous young man pissed in the big vat of the stuff.
[16:02]	<PenguinOfDoom>	They sold it anyway and it turned out to be very tasty.
[16:03]	<unknown_lamer>	heh
[16:03]	<PenguinOfDoom>	And there was a scene of a man holding his son to pee in the vat.
[16:03]	<PenguinOfDoom>	holding up -- it was a baby.
[16:03]	<unknown_lamer>	well, assuming that the yeast colony is strong a bit of piss in multiple barrels of beer would have no effect
[16:03]	<PenguinOfDoom>	What WAS that movie :(
[16:04]	<unknown_lamer>	if the yeast had not grown strong enough yet then that would probably infect the beer
[16:04]	<nerochiaro>	unknown_lamer: you seem serious about it. all that data just to brew beer is scary
[16:05]	<PenguinOfDoom>	nerochiaro: People take their damn beer seriously.
[16:06]	<unknown_lamer>	nerochiaro: QBrew did all of the math for me
[16:06]	<unknown_lamer>	nerochiaro: I just entered the ingredients for my future records because I will probably try to make this again
[16:06]	<PenguinOfDoom>	$#%@
[16:06]	<PenguinOfDoom>	unknown_lamer: Your nick is as long as mine.
[16:06]	<unknown_lamer>	heh
[16:07]	<PenguinOfDoom>	"Annoying xchat lamers since uh.. 2001"
[16:07]	<nerochiaro>	same length, but you two can start a camel casing v/s underscored name war, though
[16:08]	<PenguinOfDoom>	that's no contest
[16:08]	<PenguinOfDoom>	Underscores make your code faster.
[16:08]	<JoshMalone>	lol
[16:09]	<nerochiaro>	PenguinOfDoom: and would've made you win the name length contest too
[16:09]	<unknown_lamer>	underscores are the devil
[16:09]	<unknown_lamer>	I should switch to unknown-lamer to show my love of lisp :-)
[16:09]	* unknown_lamer  is a common lisp developer by day ... and 3 a.m.
[16:09]	<PenguinOfDoom>	Lisp is awesome! Except for the whole "writing useful software" part.
[16:09]	<unknown_lamer>	Huh?
[16:10]	<unknown_lamer>	I write useful software in it.
[16:10]	<PenguinOfDoom>	unknown_lamer: Does your favorite implementation have sockets yet? ;-)
[16:10]	<unknown_lamer>	Yes
[16:10]	<PenguinOfDoom>	hooray
[16:10]	<unknown_lamer>	I am doing web dev actually
[16:10]	<unknown_lamer>	SBCL has preempt threads too :-)
[16:10]	<unknown_lamer>	+ UFFI for interfacing with C libs
[16:10]	<PenguinOfDoom>	heh preemptive threads
[16:10]	<unknown_lamer>	cliki.net
[16:10]	<unknown_lamer>	common lisp has an active community
[16:10]	<PenguinOfDoom>	I hope your data model doesn't involve synchronization.
[16:10]	<unknown_lamer>	Why?
[16:11]	<PenguinOfDoom>	unknown_lamer: Pain in the eyeballs, mostly.
[16:11]	<unknown_lamer>	threaded programming in lisp is far easier than in C
[16:11]	<unknown_lamer>	any sync is easy
[16:11]	<PenguinOfDoom>	I can imagine.
[16:11]	<unknown_lamer>	(with-mutex (*mutex*) ...)
[16:11]	<unknown_lamer>	+ support for pthread waitqueues and such
[16:12]	<unknown_lamer>	the only sync I have to do is access to the database, and postgresql handles that internally naturally
[16:14]	<unknown_lamer>	+ there is a cl stats library that implements all of the statistical analasys functionality that I need
[16:14]	<unknown_lamer>	+ cl-gd for generating pretty graphs of the data
[16:16]	<unknown_lamer>	1/8 the amount of code and a quarter of the dev time of php or something similar
[16:16]	<unknown_lamer>	costs the same to the client ;-D
[16:17]	<PenguinOfDoom>	There are few things that compare unfavourably to PHP.
[16:17]	<PenguinOfDoom>	Getting stabbed in the face comes to mind.
[16:18]	<unknown_lamer>	haha
[16:18]	<unknown_lamer>	I dunno, I do php dev too and sometimes I want to be stabbed in the face
[16:18]	<unknown_lamer>	Usually when I am not allowed to use PEAR for the project
[16:18]	* PenguinOfDoom  slides further from unknown_lamer.
[16:18]	<unknown_lamer>	PEAR makes PHP *tolerable*
[16:18]	<unknown_lamer>	PHP = easy money
[16:19]	<unknown_lamer>	I enjoy having a place to live and food in my belly.
[16:19]	<nerochiaro>	php is ugly, but it made me leave my previous job for a better one, so it has at least one redeeming quality.
[16:19]	<nerochiaro>	was one of the factors, at least
[16:20]	<PenguinOfDoom>	xzrq.net
[16:20]	<unknown_lamer>	shitty jobs suck
[16:20]	<PenguinOfDoom>	That pretty much determined my opinion of PHP.
[16:21]	<PenguinOfDoom>	Weak typing makes young Christ weep for mercy.
[16:21]	<nerochiaro>	PenguinOfDoom: not weak typing per se, but that kind of unpredictable typing that PHP does
[16:22]	<nerochiaro>	as evidenced by your example
[16:22]	<PenguinOfDoom>	The part where it's not transitive just killed me.
[16:23]	<unknown_lamer>	nerochiaro: that is weak typing
[16:23]	<unknown_lamer>	I am a fan of dynamic/strong systems
[16:23]	<PenguinOfDoom>	Well, yeah, being a lisp monkey.
[16:23]	<unknown_lamer>	dynamic/weak is fucking retarded
[16:23]	<unknown_lamer>	static/strong is ok
[16:24]	<unknown_lamer>	SML and friends
[16:24]	<nerochiaro>	unknown_lamer: yeah, i used "weak" improperly, you're right
[16:24]	<unknown_lamer>	it is easier to prototype applications in a dynamic language
[16:25]	<PenguinOfDoom>	The difference between a prototype and the release is a bunch of unit tests.
[16:25]	<unknown_lamer>	the great part about Common Lisp is that you can then go back and add type declarations to everything, and (if the implementation supports it [most do]) then the compiler will do static type analasys and at least warn you about wrong types
[16:25]	<unknown_lamer>	unit tests are for weakling
[16:25]	<unknown_lamer>	real men write software that never breaks
[16:26]	<nerochiaro>	unknown_lamer: i just never had the stomach for all these parenthesis (and you probably are sick of hearing people saying this ;))
[16:26]	<unknown_lamer>	they grow on you
[16:26]	<PenguinOfDoom>	unknown_lamer: The world is full of wannabe real men.
[16:26]	<unknown_lamer>	(I (love my) parens)
[16:26]	<nerochiaro>	unknown_lamer: yeah, like kudzu
[16:26]	<unknown_lamer>	unit tests are also not very useful for lispish languages
[16:27]	<PenguinOfDoom>	How do you know your software works?
[16:27]	<unknown_lamer>	Don't rely on state, and make sure your functions only ever really do one thing and there is no need to bang at methods with invalid input
[16:27]	<unknown_lamer>	I can mathematically prove its correctness
[16:27]	<PenguinOfDoom>	I doubt that. Perhaps you can mathematically prove that you can prove its correctness.
[16:28]	<unknown_lamer>	if you write in a pure functional style then you can prove your program
[16:28]	<PenguinOfDoom>	That's what I said.
[16:28]	<unknown_lamer>	no
[16:28]	<PenguinOfDoom>	Have you ever done it for a non-trivial program?
[16:28]	<unknown_lamer>	heh no, I just pray
[16:28]	<PenguinOfDoom>	TOLD YUO SO
[16:29]	<unknown_lamer>	testing is for GIRLS
[16:29]	<PenguinOfDoom>	Girls who write CORRECT SOFTWARE
[16:29]	* PenguinOfDoom  writes some more unit tests.
[16:29]	<nerochiaro>	PenguinOfDoom: correct software if you write correct unit tests
[16:30]	<PenguinOfDoom>	nerochiaro: That's easy. Just write unit tests for unit tests.
[16:30]	<unknown_lamer>	PenguinOfDoom: your software is probably too complex
[16:31]	<nerochiaro>	unknown_lamer: can you prove that mathematically ?
[16:31]	<unknown_lamer>	heh
[16:31]	<PenguinOfDoom>	unknown_lamer: No, it's just that my tools have not achieved lisp-like perfection.
[16:31]	* PenguinOfDoom  is a C programmer by day. No unit tests here.
[16:31]	<unknown_lamer>	I mean hell if you really needed to test shit in lisp
[16:31]	<unknown_lamer>	it isn't HARD
[16:32]	<unknown_lamer>	(if (equalp XVAL (whatever) SUCCEED FAIL)
[16:32]	<unknown_lamer>	(if (equalp XVAL (whatever)) SUCCEED FAIL)
[16:32]	<unknown_lamer>	oops paren
[16:32]	* PenguinOfDoom  giggles.
[16:32]	<nerochiaro>	unknown_lamer: see what i mean ;)
[16:32]	<unknown_lamer>	Hell, a macro would be 5 lines to get (test xval form)
[16:33]	<PenguinOfDoom>	woohoo freaking BoFA doesn't recognize my password
[16:33]	* nerochiaro  goes brew some tea
[16:34]	<unknown_lamer>	tea and lisp
[16:34]	<unknown_lamer>	enjoyed by those who have achieved enlightenment
[16:34]	<nerochiaro>	tea and ruby for me
[16:35]	<nerochiaro>	but i'm not religious about any
[16:44]	<nerochiaro>	SEND JoshMalone well, i just got a reply from christel. she said she's crushed by work today and she will call you in the next days.
[16:45]	<nerochiaro>	oh damn memoserv
[16:48]	<PenguinOfDoom>	cru-sh
[16:48]	<nerochiaro>	cru-sh all hu-mans
[16:48]	<PenguinOfDoom>	Ah, a fellow fan of Red Robot.
[16:49]	<nerochiaro>	yep, best character in that strip
[16:49]	<PenguinOfDoom>	I dream of the day when I can be Red Robot's murderous feline companion.
[16:50]	<nerochiaro>	who doesn't :D
[16:50]	<nerochiaro>	cats + robots = DOOM !