[00:00]	<Ycros>	also is a big touchscreen
[00:00]	<Ycros>	pda-like
[00:00]	<Ycros>	it won't be anywhere near as slick as the iPhone I suspect
[00:00]	<rastyk>	I guess it depends on whether one wants to mess around with the phone
[00:00]	<Ycros>	but it's open
[00:01]	<rastyk>	I guess that's always the problem, isn't it
[00:01]	<rastyk>	can't have both
[00:01]	<Ycros>	they're using openebedded
[00:01]	<Ycros>	heh
[00:01]	<Ycros>	it could be both
[00:01]	<rastyk>	oh, i've seen this one you tlaked about
[00:01]	<Ycros>	apple could make their stuff open
[00:01]	<Ycros>	yeah
[00:01]	<Ycros>	the screenshots looked suspiciously e17 like, but I think it was qtopia
[00:03]	<rastyk>	I hope we get to a happy medium someday
[00:03]	<Ycros>	I wish they put more information up about it
[00:03]	<crweb_>	oh yay, figured out what happened
[00:03]	<Ycros>	it's close to release apprently
[00:03]	<rastyk>	actually, I dont' think it ever will, the big players will always probably try to stop you from doing cool stuff
[00:03]	<crweb_>	chroot mounted another proc during is fs mount
[00:03]	<crweb_>	more info up about what?
[00:04]	<Ycros>	www.openmoko.com
[00:04]	<rastyk>	openmoku
[00:04]	<rastyk>	o
[00:04]	<Ycros>	because I'm not buying one till I've seen how it works
[00:04]	<Ycros>	I don't like qtopia at all
[00:04]	<crweb_>	eh
[00:04]	<crweb_>	qtopia rocks
[00:04]	<rastyk>	about the OSX, here's why that is possibly really cool for iphone tor.eff.org
[00:05]	<rastyk>	you could run Tor (from eff) and privatize your browsing
[00:05]	<rastyk>	odd stuff like that
[00:05]	<crweb_>	Ycros: all my screenshots www.limesg.com and avi/asfs are qtopia
[00:06]	<crweb_>	qtopia isn't a desktop, its widgets used to build desktops
[00:07]	<crweb_>	you must have experience with qtopia based app like opie, or greenphone
[00:07]	<crweb_>	!= qtopia
[00:07]	<Ycros>	I mean
[00:07]	<Ycros>	opie
[00:07]	<Ycros>	that's what I meant
[00:07]	<crweb_>	ah
[00:07]	<crweb_>	yeah, OpenEmbedded opie and gpie suck ass
[00:07]	<Ycros>	or qpe
[00:07]	<crweb_>	or whatever the gnome one is
[00:07]	<Ycros>	whatever the zaurus ships with originally
[00:08]	<rastyk>	i may just keep my phone until it dies too
[00:08]	<crweb_>	thats pure qtopia-desktop 1.2
[00:08]	<rastyk>	they're too expensive... and I don't like those contracts
[00:08]	<Ycros>	I'm not sure I like the widgets either
[00:08]	<crweb_>	Ycros: its pre 3.0, when qtopia was a desktop system
[00:08]	<crweb_>	don't like the widgets?
[00:08]	<crweb_>	widgets are just boxes
[00:08]	<crweb_>	you make them look however you want
[00:09]	<Ycros>	wait, I'll rephrase that and make it more general
[00:09]	<crweb_>	your openmoku pics look no differnet thatn qtopia
[00:09]	<Ycros>	crweb_: yes, and they look shit
[00:09]	<Ycros>	I've never seen any decent phone or PDA ui
[00:09]	<Ycros>	ever
[00:09]	<Ycros>	except for maybe the iPhone
[00:09]	<Ycros>	and maybe the 770
[00:09]	<crweb_>	how else you going to fit the info into the window?
[00:10]	<crweb_>	770 doesn't count. Its a full 800x600 display ( or something like that)
[00:10]	<Ycros>	the openmoko is almost there
[00:10]	<crweb_>	they could run real kde on it
[00:10]	<Ycros>	though
[00:10]	<rastyk>	ycros : did you ever see the symbian?
[00:11]	<crweb_>	thats what i mean, It looks to me like they are using qt
[00:11]	<rastyk>	that one either I'm used to or I just like it
[00:11]	<Ycros>	rastyk: um, briefly
[00:11]	<crweb_>	just a black and orange theme
[00:11]	<Ycros>	it might be good
[00:11]	<Ycros>	I'm just commenting that I personally haven't seen anything I like
[00:11]	<Ycros>	oh
[00:11]	<Ycros>	actually, e17 is sexy on my zaurus
[00:11]	<Ycros>	but not very usable
[00:12]	<crweb_>	that's just graphics
[00:12]	<crweb_>	i think usable is much more important on these types of platforms
[00:12]	<crweb_>	but, if someone took the time, they could make any widget set shiny and effects
[00:12]	<Ycros>	yeah, I want shiny and usable
[00:13]	<crweb_>	most people don't
[00:13]	<crweb_>	cause shiney is useless
[00:13]	<rastyk>	ok guys have a good night, time for bed
[00:14]	<crweb_>	hmm.. i just realised the heating system for this building never shuts off
[00:14]	<Ycros>	shiny makes someththing more aethetically pleasing
[00:14]	<crweb_>	I find it gets in the way
[00:14]	<crweb_>	I like plain and simple
[00:14]	<crweb_>	but to each his own
[00:14]	<Ycros>	and I believe it can enchance usability
[00:15]	<crweb_>	when your UI outshines your device, you have issues
[00:16]	<Ycros>	okay, I think the iPhone would be a lot less usable if it had the UI but shit looking widgets/fonts/no animations
[00:16]	<crweb_>	it would be excatly the same
[00:16]	<crweb_>	you just wouldn't feel so cool about having one
[00:17]	<sumasuma>	anyone seen apple TV ?
[00:17]	<crweb_>	Mine is on the way
[00:17]	<crweb_>	but, I have a huge library of itunes media
[00:17]	<crweb_>	and no ipod
[00:17]	<Ycros>	I'll discuss why it's more usable some other time
[00:17]	<Ycros>	I gotta run
[00:17]	<sumasuma>	i c
[00:18]	<sumasuma>	crweb: you bougt for $299 ?
[00:18]	<crweb_>	it will only play itunes formats
[00:18]	<crweb_>	so no divx, xvid, etc
[00:18]	<sumasuma>	i c, i got it
[00:18]	<crweb_>	245 with education discount
[00:19]	<sumasuma>	that is a good price
[00:19]	<sumasuma>	looks more professional, some one might hack in to get linux working
[00:19]	<crweb_>	i don't think it looks as good as the osd
[00:19]	<crweb_>	and it serously lacks some must have features
[00:20]	<crweb_>	and it can only play via through itunes
[00:20]	<crweb_>	so you have to have a pc on, and itunes running
[00:20]	<sumasuma>	i c
[00:21]	<sumasuma>	crweb_: i'm sure in future apple will make it to download from their website
[00:21]	<sumasuma>	crweb_: and play on it for payment
[00:21]	<crweb_>	oh sorry, it can
[00:21]	<crweb_>	it is 40gig
[00:22]	<sumasuma>	yes
[00:22]	<crweb_>	but you have to have itunes up to get media to it
[00:22]	<crweb_>	or use the store
[00:22]	<crweb_>	you can buy with it
[00:22]	<crweb_>	and podcast
[00:22]	<sumasuma>	cool, that is a cool product too
[00:22]	<crweb_>	watch/listen podcast
[00:22]	<sumasuma>	you seen their iphone ?
[00:23]	<sumasuma>	looks something nice of that too
[00:23]	<crweb_>	yeah, i'm not really into the phone thing
[00:23]	<crweb_>	i think a phone should be a phone
[00:23]	<sumasuma>	yes
[00:23]	<crweb_>	i'm not so lost in myself that I need to carry tv around with me on my phone
[00:23]	<crweb_>	read a fucking book.
[00:23]	<sumasuma>	:)
[00:23]	<crweb_>	or play nintendo ds
[00:23]	<crweb_>	don't vegitate
[00:23]	<sumasuma>	if you like, use it otherwise don't use those features :)
[00:24]	<crweb_>	other features like?
[00:24]	<sumasuma>	TV, playinggames
[00:24]	<sumasuma>	etc.,
[00:24]	<crweb_>	its never going to be good as the real thing
[00:24]	<sumasuma>	yes
[00:25]	<crweb_>	plus the prices on the games ouch
[00:25]	<crweb_>	you might aswell buy psp games
[00:25]	<sumasuma>	I still have my nokia 3210 phone, nice and good one
[00:25]	<crweb_>	i want a phone that just dials, and stores phone #'s
[00:25]	<crweb_>	save me the battery life, cause thats whats actually important
[00:25]	<sumasuma>	all possible to extract money from you even when you are on the move
[00:26]	<sumasuma>	yes
[00:27]	<crweb_>	router is reflashing, i'm going bye bye
[00:27]	<crweb_>	hope for not to long
[00:27]	<sumasuma>	k
[00:33]	<sumasuma>	it can also supply audio with 5.1 optical !
[00:37]	<ubuntu__>	yay
[01:36]	<crweb_>	sumasuma: don't get me wrong, the iPhone input method is revolutionary
[01:37]	<crweb_>	i don't see anywhere where they talk about battery life though
[01:38]	<crweb_>	ah
[01:38]	<crweb_>	5 hours talk, 16 hours audio playback
[01:38]	<crweb_>	thats amazing
[01:38]	<sumasuma>	yes
[01:39]	<sumasuma>	adding more applications should be made easier
[01:39]	<crweb_>	but $600 for a phone
[01:39]	<crweb_>	i'd rather buy a ps3
[01:39]	<sumasuma>	ha ha
[01:39]	<crweb_>	and thats really saying something
[01:39]	<crweb_>	cause i'm all about th wii
[01:39]	<sumasuma>	in UK you can get this for free soon
[01:39]	<jwu>	5hours talk 16hours playback do you use OSD?
[01:40]	<sumasuma>	ha ha
[01:40]	<sumasuma>	i used to talk for 13 hours with my friend who is a girl during my university life !
[01:40]	<crweb_>	jwu: we were talking about the new apple iPhone
[01:40]	<sumasuma>	5 hours by phone is very normal to me
[01:41]	<sumasuma>	not through mobile
[01:41]	<sumasuma>	certainly not
[01:41]	<crweb_>	yeah, my basic phone only gets about 1.5
[01:41]	<sumasuma>	i use cisco7960 to talk, i feel most comfortable
[01:41]	<jwu>	it is interesting what you said just now
[01:43]	<crweb_>	thats one heck of a nice setup.. 16 hours audio playback, with a batter tha tsmall
[01:43]	<crweb_>	it is flash memory though
[01:43]	<crweb_>	that makes it easier
[01:43]	<sumasuma>	yes
[01:43]	<crweb_>	my 1 gig nano was barely 8 hours though
[01:44]	<crweb_>	and it was much thicker than that phone
[01:44]	<crweb_>	i gues they made a cpu just for apple drm/codec
[01:44]	<sumasuma>	the cute thing about apple is, sleek design and high facilities
[01:44]	<crweb_>	ok, this keyboards going in the trash
[01:44]	<sumasuma>	i guess so so too
[01:45]	<sumasuma>	IMX30 can also do the same, whatever is inside
[01:47]	<jwu>	sumasuma:are you from UK?
[01:51]	<crweb_>	jwu: when I'm looking at a list of timezones, which timezone are you in?
[01:51]	<crweb_>	i can't find any for Xiamen
[01:55]	<jwu>	Can't you see a BeiJing Timezone?
[01:55]	<jwu>	we use this
[01:56]	<crweb_>	its not in my list
[01:56]	<jwu>	what product do you set?
[01:56]	<crweb_>	KDE
[01:57]	<crweb_>	oh found it
[01:57]	<crweb_>	they call it Shanghai
[01:57]	<crweb_>	thank you
[01:57]	<jwu>	Shanghai is ok too
[01:57]	<crweb_>	its 3:57pm?
[01:59]	<jwu>	yes
[01:59]	<crweb_>	excellent
[01:59]	<crweb_>	I just setup kde for the 8 timezones I know of for people in here
[02:01]	<crweb_>	its 9am for nerochiaro
[02:01]	<crweb_>	:)
[02:01]	<crweb_>	doesn't sound right
[02:02]	<jwu>	He is in europe?
[02:02]	<crweb_>	Milan Italy
[02:02]	<crweb_>	i think that falls under Rome timezone
[02:02]	<jwu>	I guess he is a AC-milan fan
[02:02]	<crweb_>	it could be + - 1 hour 9:00am
[02:03]	<crweb_>	my family is from Turin
[02:03]	<crweb_>	we moved to US in the 30's
[02:03]	<jwu>	you are a Italain too?
[02:03]	<crweb_>	yes
[02:04]	<crweb_>	mostly
[02:04]	<jwu>	30's
[02:04]	<crweb_>	1933
[02:05]	<crweb_>	my grandpa moved here
[02:05]	<crweb_>	to chicago
[02:05]	<jwu>	oh, it the far form now
[02:13]	<jwu>	When are you start research linux?
[02:13]	<crweb_>	i started linux in 1998
[02:13]	<crweb_>	building DNS, and windows nt server replacements
[02:17]	<crweb_>	my new linux distro for the OSD will be my first self made distro
[02:17]	<jwu>	what is distro?
[02:18]	<crweb_>	a package of software that makes up a linux os, Redhat Fedora, ubuntu, suse, are all distro's ( distributions) of GNU Linux
[02:19]	<crweb_>	i left out debian
[02:19]	<crweb_>	those are the commons
[02:19]	<crweb_>	but there are hundreds
[02:19]	<jwu>	I found many word you used are not formal.
[02:19]	<crweb_>	ranging from livecd's to floppy based firewalls
[02:20]	<crweb_>	guess its linux speak
[02:20]	<crweb_>	did you understand?
[02:21]	<jwu>	yes
[02:22]	<jwu>	we here also said not formal often, so a forneigner learn Chinese will hard understand what we said.
[02:23]	<Ycros>	I started around then as well
[02:23]	<Ycros>	mmm
[02:30]	<allyourrejects>	jwu: it might block your replies if you aren't logged in
[02:30]	<jwu>	how to logged in
[02:31]	<allyourrejects>	you have to create an account with freenode
[02:31]	<allyourrejects>	/msg nickserv register help
[02:31]	<allyourrejects>	err
[02:31]	<allyourrejects>	/msg nickserv register
[02:32]	<allyourrejects>	then after you register, you /msg nickserv identify <your password goes here>
[02:33]	<jwu>	where is /msg
[02:34]	<allyourrejects>	you type it just like when talking in here
[02:35]	<allyourrejects>	there are all kinds of commands like that
[02:35]	<allyourrejects>	another one commonly used is /me
[02:35]	* allyourrejects  says this is me typing /me
[02:39]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: the time zone for me was right
[02:39]	<jwu>	can you see
[02:39]	<jwu>	can you see my reply?
[02:39]	<allyourrejects>	i can not
[02:40]	<allyourrejects>	it should be telling you you can't send messages without identifying
[02:40]	<jwu>	it is not notice this.
[02:41]	<allyourrejects>	nerochiaro: could you help him figure that out real quick, I have to reboot the entire agency
[02:42]	<nerochiaro>	allyourrejects: what ? how to reg with nickserver ?
[02:42]	<allyourrejects>	and flash another router :(
[02:42]	<allyourrejects>	yes
[02:42]	<nerochiaro>	ok
[02:42]	<allyourrejects>	i'll brb
[02:42]	<allyourrejects>	maybe...
[02:42]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: can you type "/msg nickserv help" and see if it opens a chat window with nickserv ?
[02:43]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: what client are you using, by the way ?
[02:45]	<jwu>	nerochiaro: I don't know what client.
[02:45]	<jwu>	I just connect to freenode
[02:46]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: how did you do that ? which program did you use to connect to freenode ?
[02:46]	<jwu>	I have registered
[02:47]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: see if you can reply to my PM message
[02:49]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: try also doing this "/msg nickserv identify your_password"
[02:51]	<jwu>	system notice me password incorrect
[02:51]	<nerochiaro>	your_password should be the password you used when you did "/msg nickserv register", of course
[02:52]	<jwu>	I have register before but I forget the password
[02:53]	<jwu>	register long before
[02:53]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: then you cannot identify anymore. you need to change your nick and register the new nick. sorry
[02:54]	<nerochiaro>	use "/nick your_new_nick" to change nick
[02:54]	<nerochiaro>	then repeat registration
[02:54]	<nerochiaro>	and repeat identify
[02:54]	<anders_>	Isn't there a way to recover password if you have set emailaddress?
[02:54]	<jwu>	can you see my nick name modify>
[02:54]	<jwu>	can you see my nick name modify?
[02:55]	<nerochiaro>	anders_: not that i can see. you know how ?
[02:55]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: no
[02:55]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: you're still jwu
[02:56]	<jwu>	I type "/nick john"
[02:56]	<anders_>	nerochiaro: Don't know. But the faq says "Add a valid email address to your primary nickserv entry so that we have a way to reset your password, and so that we have it in case you want an 'unaffiliated' cloak."
[02:57]	<nerochiaro>	anders_: yeah, but probably need to email or contact some admin to have that reset. it seems easier to just change it for now
[02:58]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: i don't know why, but it didn't work. your nick did not change
[02:58]	<anders_>	There is already another user with nick "john"
[02:59]	<nerochiaro>	ok
[02:59]	<nerochiaro>	it worked
[03:00]	<allyourrejects>	jwu was already registered?
[03:00]	<wuzhicong>	ok identify success
[03:00]	<nerochiaro>	lost pwd
[03:00]	<allyourrejects>	ah
[03:00]	<nerochiaro>	wuzhicong: try pm me
[03:01]	<wuzhicong>	how to pm you?
[03:01]	<nerochiaro>	"/msg nerochiaro some_message"
[03:01]	<wuzhicong>	msg nerochiaro HI
[03:02]	<wuzhicong>	can you see?
[03:02]	<allyourrejects>	the / is important
[03:03]	<wuzhicong>	can you see?
[03:03]	<wuzhicong>	nerochiaro: I have pm you, can you see?
[03:03]	<allyourrejects>	haha.. now I am trying to identify
[03:04]	<nerochiaro>	wuzhicong: yes
[03:04]	<nerochiaro>	it works
[03:17]	<allyourrejects>	oh damn
[03:17]	<allyourrejects>	just about didn't recover from that one
[03:17]	<allyourrejects>	think i'm going to call it a night on the router updates
[03:18]	<wuzhicong>	are you in office?
[03:18]	<nerochiaro>	allyourrejects: heh, better get some rest before
[03:18]	<allyourrejects>	wuzhicong: yes
[03:18]	<allyourrejects>	wuzhicong: i've been cleaning, updating hardware, and reinstalling servers all day
[03:18]	<allyourrejects>	i even mopped our server room floor
[03:18]	<allyourrejects>	should cut down on a dust problem
[03:20]	<allyourrejects>	primary server is down right now
[03:20]	<allyourrejects>	formatted and reinstalling the OS
[03:21]	<wuzhicong>	pitiful
[03:21]	<allyourrejects>	it needed new hard drives, ram added and everything
[03:21]	<nerochiaro>	allyourrejects: wow, wish our server admins would go all the way to mop the floors
[03:21]	<allyourrejects>	nerochiaro: ricksy was in here earlier and said "mopping the floors, that something they would get upset around here about"
[03:21]	<allyourrejects>	but, I am the "they"
[03:22]	<allyourrejects>	i'd kill the underlings if they brought liquid in here
[03:22]	<allyourrejects>	heh
[03:22]	<allyourrejects>	it was a interesting sight
[03:22]	<allyourrejects>	I moved everything out of the server room
[03:23]	<allyourrejects>	and network cables connected the hallway and the wire rack in the server room
[03:23]	<allyourrejects>	haddn't been cleaned in 8 years.. or more, i started 8 years ago
[03:24]	<wuzhicong>	you can have the one who brought liquid in mop the floors.
[03:24]	<nerochiaro>	there were probably lots of what we call "dust cats" roaming around. you know, the fluffy balls of dust and crap that form under desks and racks
[03:25]	<allyourrejects>	nerochiaro: yeah, there were plenty of those
[03:25]	<allyourrejects>	wuzhicong: it was me
[03:25]	<nerochiaro>	vacuum clean, i guess ?
[03:25]	<allyourrejects>	the mop was the best
[03:25]	<allyourrejects>	they stick to it
[03:25]	<Ycros>	dust bunnies!
[03:25]	<allyourrejects>	all the dust was settled on the floor after i took out the fans and servers
[03:26]	<nerochiaro>	Ycros: ah ! bunnies ! we call them cats, but bunnies are fluffier in fact
[03:26]	<Ycros>	hmm I should go inside, the mosquitos are coming out in force
[03:26]	<allyourrejects>	one nice going over with mop (turning the mop black 4 times) and dust problem gone
[03:26]	* Ycros  grabs insect repellant
[03:27]	<nerochiaro>	allyourrejects: bah, amateur. vacuuming before mopping is the first rule of cleaning floors
[03:28]	<allyourrejects>	well, it wouldn't have been possible
[03:28]	<allyourrejects>	i'm already introuble
[03:29]	<allyourrejects>	I emptied out most of the utility closet to get the mop (most of our building is commercial carpet)
[03:29]	<allyourrejects>	and, i've gone and locked myself out of the closet
[03:29]	<allyourrejects>	with floor buffers, brooms, mop buckets.. no place to dump the water...
[03:29]	<allyourrejects>	I'm probably just going to stay here till we open
[03:30]	<nerochiaro>	what about the toilet. that always works
[03:30]	<allyourrejects>	hmm
[03:30]	<allyourrejects>	they are those jet toliets
[03:30]	<allyourrejects>	not pressure, I'd have to keep flushing
[03:31]	<allyourrejects>	err, gravitational
[03:31]	<allyourrejects>	still doesn't help with the everything being in the hallway that patients walk through to see the doctor
[03:32]	<nerochiaro>	allyourrejects: lock them into one of the toilets too. put an out of oder sign out. go home to sleep ;)
[03:32]	<allyourrejects>	ha
[03:32]	<allyourrejects>	i don't think i'm going to be done before we open
[03:32]	<allyourrejects>	only 5 more hours
[03:33]	<nerochiaro>	"only"
[03:33]	<allyourrejects>	have to resetup primary domain. get email back up
[03:33]	<allyourrejects>	this was a clean reset
[03:33]	<beaufour>	has anybody gotten further with scratchbox than what is on the wiki?
[03:33]	<allyourrejects>	switched from passwd to mysql auth
[03:33]	<nerochiaro>	allyourrejects: what are you doing here then ? plenty of stuff to do. go go ! ;)
[03:33]	<allyourrejects>	its going
[03:33]	<allyourrejects>	heh
[03:34]	<nerochiaro>	beaufour: what further is needed ?
[03:34]	<crweb_>	i'd delete him.. but I need his ip
[03:34]	<beaufour>	nerochiaro: well, nothing in particular, but a "cleaner" setup would be nice
[03:34]	* beaufour  is currently trying to set it up