[00:00]	<sumasuma>	crweb: you heard of digium ?
[00:00]	<crweb>	i can't release binaries, and I can't release source
[00:00]	<crweb>	sumasuma: no
[00:00]	<sumasuma>	oh
[00:00]	<sumasuma>	digium is the one releasing asterisk source code
[00:00]	<crweb>	oh yeah, you're the asterisk guy
[00:00]	<sumasuma>	yep
[00:00]	<sourcerror>	yea. I know what you mean.
[00:01]	<crweb>	i have no interest in voip
[00:01]	<sumasuma>	they give you the g729 as a binary with a license
[00:01]	<sumasuma>	g729 is a codec
[00:01]	<crweb>	my university uses the DM320
[00:01]	<crweb>	its how i have the doc's
[00:01]	<sumasuma>	crweb: you are in which university ?
[00:02]	<crweb>	Southern Illinois University of Carbondale
[00:02]	<sumasuma>	doing any app for DM320 ?
[00:02]	<sumasuma>	or planning to do something with it ?
[00:02]	<crweb>	they are just using the arm and the reference board
[00:02]	<crweb>	for assembly classes
[00:03]	<crweb>	its a $7 chip
[00:03]	<sumasuma>	i have lot of suggestions if you want to improve on the hardware side!
[00:03]	<sumasuma>	yes
[00:03]	<crweb>	I have lots of suggestions too
[00:03]	<sumasuma>	on the hardware or software one ?
[00:03]	<sumasuma>	software you can take it to unlimited
[00:04]	<crweb>	a.) audio interface, b.) standard network card, b.) standard usb controller c.) standard i/o ide controller
[00:04]	<sumasuma>	hardware what you think need to be improved?
[00:04]	<sumasuma>	mm
[00:04]	<crweb>	stuff on the osd reference board
[00:04]	<crweb>	err, motherboard
[00:04]	<sumasuma>	i think USB interface is there right ?
[00:04]	<sumasuma>	any problem with that ?
[00:05]	<crweb>	yeah, its not finished
[00:05]	<crweb>	they gave us shit drivers
[00:05]	<sumasuma>	you mean the driver part ?
[00:05]	<crweb>	that only support usb-storage
[00:05]	<crweb>	if we got a real usb chipset, we could just use the kernel standard drivers
[00:05]	<sourcerror>	yea, that's crazy, should be able to plug in a keyboard or mouse.
[00:05]	<sumasuma>	is it not standard usb and extend storage from there ?
[00:06]	<crweb>	you have to use their drivers
[00:06]	<crweb>	its patched into the kernel
[00:06]	<sourcerror>	well it sounds like it wouldn't be so bad except that there are bugs.
[00:06]	<sumasuma>	so when you have a USB device, you can communicate with a normal USB application for an user right ?
[00:06]	<sumasuma>	i c
[00:07]	<crweb>	hid is broken
[00:07]	<crweb>	because they didn't finish the driver
[00:07]	<sumasuma>	bugs, i guess they must be working on
[00:07]	<sumasuma>	should be solvable and upgradable through the firmware
[00:07]	<crweb>	input devices, and wireless devices won't work without full usb driver
[00:07]	<sumasuma>	IDE controller we cannot have, since it makes the system heavy !
[00:07]	<crweb>	they only implemented storage stuff
[00:08]	<sumasuma>	yes
[00:08]	<sumasuma>	IDE i don't prefer to have it on to the device
[00:08]	<sumasuma>	audio interface, anything specific you want to have ?
[00:08]	<sumasuma>	i think right now we have stereo
[00:08]	<crweb>	right now, audio is done purely through the dsp
[00:09]	<crweb>	because the arm can't handle it
[00:09]	<crweb>	means, you can't play audio unless you have the codec
[00:09]	<sourcerror>	crweb: intentionally only implemented USB-storage or they haven't had time yet?
[00:09]	<sourcerror>	... to implement rest
[00:09]	<crweb>	meaning, you can't have "generic" audio appliations
[00:09]	<crweb>	no mpg123, etc
[00:09]	<sumasuma>	crweb: i doubt so, you tried it ?
[00:10]	<crweb>	you can't output audio even if you wanted to decode on arm
[00:10]	<crweb>	theres no interface
[00:10]	<crweb>	no oss, no alsa, you have to use nms
[00:10]	<crweb>	they did port libao to use nms though
[00:10]	<crweb>	but support is flakey
[00:10]	<jwu>	USB storage drivers is a kind of usb device drivers,and usb keyboard and usb mounce are the same ,they need their own drivers
[00:10]	<sumasuma>	you can pass the decoded data through nms right ?
[00:11]	<crweb>	jwu: not true
[00:11]	<crweb>	jwu: they use the same controller
[00:11]	<crweb>	jwu: i can make keyboard work by changing 1 line in the driver
[00:11]	<crweb>	sumasuma: i don't believe so
[00:11]	<crweb>	sumasuma: you'd have to talk to may1937
[00:11]	<sumasuma>	crweb: i have heard you can do that
[00:12]	<jwu>	controller driver are usb host driver but one device have its own drivers
[00:12]	<sumasuma>	you can write a virtual driver, where it takes the standard audio data and pass it to the dsp
[00:12]	<crweb>	jwu: there are already input drivers for usb, those don't change, only the host driver is hardware dependent
[00:13]	<jwu>	you said the host driver is not OK
[00:13]	<crweb>	its not OK
[00:13]	<crweb>	its not compliant with usb standards
[00:13]	<sumasuma>	got it, crweb, but i guess it is solvable !
[00:14]	<sumasuma>	i asked about the suggestions on the hardware improvement
[00:14]	<crweb>	we hacked it. and make it PIPE_INTERRUPT(0)
[00:14]	<crweb>	but that is not correct.
[00:14]	<crweb>	could cause other problems
[00:14]	<sumasuma>	a) audio interface problem can be done with a virtual driver
[00:14]	<sumasuma>	b) usb also solvable
[00:14]	<crweb>	but making it PIPE_INTERRUPT(0) made HID devices work
[00:15]	<sumasuma>	c) ide - not good to implement into a small device, makes the device bulky
[00:15]	<crweb>	look at all that empty space in teh case though ;)
[00:15]	<sumasuma>	yes
[00:16]	<sumasuma>	but attaching hard drive will be bulky
[00:16]	<sumasuma>	and heavy !
[00:16]	<crweb>	its not for harddrive
[00:16]	<crweb>	CF uses ide
[00:16]	<sumasuma>	i mean IDE interface
[00:16]	<sumasuma>	yes, you can use with the available external slots
[00:16]	<sumasuma>	MMC, SD
[00:17]	<crweb>	mmc and sd use the kernels mmc/sd support
[00:17]	<sumasuma>	USB, you can add unlimited storage though
[00:17]	<crweb>	but CF uses ide chipset
[00:17]	<crweb>	usb uses ide emulation
[00:18]	<sumasuma>	Here are my suggestions for the hardware
[00:18]	<sumasuma>	1. It needs 5.1 interface
[00:18]	<sumasuma>	2. Optical or Digital output for audio is needed, since it is capable of playing dvd's quality
[00:18]	<crweb>	i don't think the dsp could push 5.1 data
[00:18]	<sumasuma>	means, it is hardware problem at the design level
[00:19]	<sumasuma>	even if you put software, you won't be able to make it to work
[00:19]	<sourcerror>	I think sumasuma is talking about the OSD2 :)
[00:19]	<crweb>	unless you are using the network cable or sd/cf you can't playback dvd quality
[00:19]	<sourcerror>	with next gen DSP chips too right?
[00:19]	<crweb>	the DM345 or 342 something like that
[00:19]	<crweb>	is going tobe a totally different chip
[00:20]	<crweb>	the C62x will be very opensource friendly
[00:20]	<crweb>	the next generation won't have any of the problmes
[00:20]	<sumasuma>	sourcerror, i'm talking about the current one, when you says it is dvd playable capability, i also need to enjoy its full extent capabilities in DVD
[00:21]	<crweb>	sumasuma: you're not going to get it, there isn't the data bus to do it with
[00:21]	<crweb>	its 12mbit usb, but only 4mbit really usable
[00:21]	<sumasuma>	becoz of hardware limitation ?
[00:21]	<crweb>	yeah
[00:22]	<sumasuma>	if software, it is rectifible
[00:22]	<crweb>	I don't believe this is software
[00:22]	<sumasuma>	USB 2 is 45 Mbps capability right ?
[00:22]	<crweb>	it is why usb2 480mbit was invented
[00:22]	<sumasuma>	sorry, i missed one zero, 450 A:)
[00:22]	<sumasuma>	yes
[00:23]	<crweb>	its 480 ;)
[00:23]	<sumasuma>	i guess our videophone is smart enough i guess
[00:23]	<sumasuma>	i can also play h.264 video with 5.1 channel audio
[00:24]	<sumasuma>	and full usb bandwidth available
[00:24]	<crweb>	the DM320 is only capable of 20fps of h.264
[00:25]	<crweb>	the DM320 has usb/mmc/sd/memstick all built in
[00:25]	<crweb>	doesn't mean you have to use them though..
[00:26]	<crweb>	if there were really nice drivers, there wouldnt be any complaints
[00:26]	<daurnimator>	does DM320 only support 4:#?
[00:26]	<daurnimator>	*4:3
[00:27]	<crweb>	sumasuma: the video passthough of recording is done in hardware
[00:28]	<crweb>	sumasuma: btw and is sent directly to the lineout
[00:28]	<crweb>	daurnimator: i am reading for your question
[00:30]	<daurnimator>	i'm thinking about portable devices ALOT now
[00:30]	<daurnimator>	and i'm thinking that N3 would be suited to 16:9
[00:30]	<crweb>	you know how small 16:9 would be on a 3.5" screen?
[00:31]	<daurnimator>	something like those new 800x480 hitachi screens
[00:31]	<crweb>	plus you'd have to run a 16:9 screen
[00:31]	<crweb>	makes the device funny shapped
[00:31]	<crweb>	granged 4:3 isn't the solution
[00:31]	<crweb>	err, granted
[00:31]	<daurnimator>	well, you'd be able to run full screen 16:9 movies
[00:32]	<crweb>	the difference is, with a portable device, you don't worry about ntsc/pal
[00:32]	<daurnimator>	and when watching things in portait, you have room for HUDs etc
[00:32]	<crweb>	so a whole different set of resolutions and stuff are now available
[00:32]	<daurnimator>	i've never delved into that stuff
[00:33]	<crweb>	daurnimator: that kind of support is all about the drivers
[00:33]	<crweb>	daurnimator: the kernel dm320 drivers, and the codec's
[00:33]	<crweb>	it would probably be hardcoded by the vendor for your device
[00:34]	<daurnimator>	i'm just pondering on features, and how they fit with hardware and software design
[00:34]	<daurnimator>	i'm slowly getting a picture of the perfect media player in my head
[00:35]	<crweb>	don't think to hard I have one. 4.5" touch screen with touchscreen disable feature
[00:35]	<daurnimator>	whats that?
[00:35]	<crweb>	so you can lock the touchscreen
[00:35]	<crweb>	you stop the touchscreen from recieving input
[00:35]	<daurnimator>	this is something you own?
[00:35]	<crweb>	so you can put it in your pocket
[00:36]	<crweb>	no, i have "perfect design"
[00:36]	<crweb>	heh
[00:36]	<daurnimator>	4.5" is too big
[00:36]	<crweb>	not when its all screen
[00:36]	<crweb>	you wouldn't have any buttons or anything
[00:37]	<crweb>	you're right, its huge. the good kind of huge
[00:37]	<daurnimator>	no
[00:37]	<daurnimator>	needs hardware buttons
[00:37]	<crweb>	why?
[00:37]	<crweb>	its touchscreen
[00:37]	<daurnimator>	full touchscreen is a nightmare
[00:37]	<crweb>	why?
[00:37]	<daurnimator>	i've had such devices before
[00:37]	<sourcerror>	didn't we just see that announced at **cworld *xpo :)
[00:37]	<crweb>	yes
[00:38]	<daurnimator>	ha, that'll be even worse
[00:38]	<crweb>	daurnimator: explination?
[00:38]	<daurnimator>	you CANNOT type without tactile feedback
[00:38]	<crweb>	who said anything about typing?
[00:38]	<daurnimator>	its been tried, and failed utterly miserably
[00:38]	<crweb>	why do you need to type?
[00:38]	<daurnimator>	(was in response to sourcerror & i....
[00:38]	<crweb>	daurnimator: the 770 didn't fail, it was amazing
[00:38]	<daurnimator>	HA
[00:38]	<crweb>	still, why do you need to type?
[00:39]	<crweb>	you touch the buttons
[00:39]	<daurnimator>	nearly everyone i've talked to about 770 said they didn't want it cause it had no keboard :P
[00:39]	<crweb>	nearly everyone you talked to didn't HAVE it
[00:39]	<daurnimator>	one of the reasons i myself have bought a C3200 zaurus instead
[00:39]	<crweb>	what are you going to do with a keyboard on a video/mp3 player?
[00:39]	<crweb>	chat with your mp3's?
[00:39]	<crweb>	its not a pda
[00:40]	<crweb>	and the 770 input was amazing
[00:40]	<daurnimator>	first problem, scrathes & fingerprints
[00:40]	<crweb>	you didn't have to type, it could read your cursive no matter how bad you wrote
[00:40]	<sourcerror>	daurnimator: but I think there is a lot to say about having good software. If *pple got it right , then maybe. Most of the time a lot goes into great hardware and then software messes up the full potential.
[00:40]	<daurnimator>	you don't want to be touching the screen of something you watch video on
[00:40]	<crweb>	and scratchs and fingerprints happen anyway
[00:40]	<crweb>	and you touch it anyway
[00:40]	<crweb>	you can't help it
[00:41]	<daurnimator>	my archos gmini has NO scrathes, and everytime i touch it, i clean it in about a minute
[00:41]	<crweb>	hell you probably have fingerprints on your TV and you sit 10 feet away from it
[00:41]	<daurnimator>	(touch the screen/glass)
[00:41]	<sourcerror>	i threaten people who touch my screen :)
[00:41]	<crweb>	i don't use the keypad on my zaurus, i've had it almost 6 years, no scratches
[00:42]	<crweb>	if you're and idiot you scratch it
[00:42]	<crweb>	i've had my nintendo ds since it came out, no screen guards, I play it everywhere, no scratches
[00:43]	<daurnimator>	i just can't stand devices without proper buttons
[00:43]	<crweb>	what is the point of a pda with a touch screen if you don't use the touchscreen...
[00:43]	<daurnimator>	i don't buy them
[00:43]	<crweb>	hate to be you in the future then
[00:43]	<crweb>	i'd take screen viewable over buttons anyday
[00:43]	<daurnimator>	heh, i have an ipaq, my biggest compaint is that it only has 5 buttons + dpad
[00:43]	<crweb>	so would the rest of the world
[00:43]	<crweb>	buttons are in the past, they are pointless and take up space
[00:44]	<daurnimator>	anyway
[00:44]	<daurnimator>	hardware in the N3
[00:44]	<crweb>	virtual buttons can be any size, any where
[00:44]	<daurnimator>	its all about the tactile feedbac
[00:44]	<daurnimator>	and also, you can press as many buttons as you want
[00:44]	<crweb>	you can't feel yourself touch something?
[00:44]	<daurnimator>	multitouch screens are patented by apple :P
[00:44]	<crweb>	what?
[00:45]	<crweb>	if you are typing you can't press 2 keys at once anyway
[00:45]	<daurnimator>	key combinations...
[00:45]	<crweb>	on touchscreen you don't need ctrl or shift
[00:45]	<daurnimator>	shortcuts etc
[00:45]	<crweb>	you don't need them
[00:45]	<crweb>	gestures, and virtual buttons
[00:45]	<sourcerror>	...in the future we'll all be forced to wear black turtlenecks and buy white cased gadgets.
[00:45]	<daurnimator>	sory
[00:45]	<daurnimator>	but i need my buttons
[00:46]	<crweb>	still have your vcr don't you?
[00:46]	<daurnimator>	but.... this isn't the comversation i wanted to have :P
[00:46]	<daurnimator>	no
[00:46]	<daurnimator>	i don't have a tv with a remote
[00:46]	<crweb>	you mid 30's?
[00:46]	<daurnimator>	only antenna input
[00:46]	<daurnimator>	late teens
[00:46]	<crweb>	damn
[00:46]	<daurnimator>	my tv is older than me
[00:46]	<crweb>	oh wait.. austrailia
[00:46]	<crweb>	sorry, couldn't spell it
[00:47]	<crweb>	i'm j/k, i wasn't being offensive
[00:47]	<crweb>	i was actually curious
[00:47]	<daurnimator>	ANYWAY
[00:47]	<crweb>	(about age)
[00:47]	<daurnimator>	i wanted to talk about features :P
[00:47]	<crweb>	I'm actually a sociologist
[00:47]	<daurnimator>	and hardware
[00:47]	<daurnimator>	interface is to come
[00:48]	<crweb>	fine i'll compromize
[00:48]	<crweb>	4" screen, and a power button
[00:48]	<daurnimator>	as a side note, i want a 16:9 3.5" high res screen
[00:48]	<daurnimator>	joystick on one side
[00:49]	<crweb>	fine, 3.5" screen, powerbutton, and a shift button
[00:49]	<daurnimator>	3 tiny buttons on top & bottom edges
[00:49]	<sourcerror>	screen projected onto your retina
[00:49]	<daurnimator>	and 4 buttons on other side of screen
[00:49]	<crweb>	so, you want a smaller 770 with a keyboard?
[00:50]	<daurnimator>	keyboard... no
[00:50]	<crweb>	wtf
[00:50]	<crweb>	what was the huge deal about the buttons and no keyboards then
[00:50]	<crweb>	you can put all the buttons you want around the edges
[00:50]	<crweb>	full touchscreen, 4" highres and buttons over every inch of the side
[00:51]	<daurnimator>	on the face, all i want is a joystick (like psp stick), and 3 or 4 buttons on the other side, i'm thinking in a cresent
[00:51]	<crweb>	thats a full 4" viewable
[00:51]	<crweb>	you lose viewable with stuff on face
[00:51]	<daurnimator>	i'm losing battery power with a bigger backlight
[00:52]	<crweb>	not as much as space you lose
[00:54]	<daurnimator>	anyway
[00:54]	<daurnimator>	what hardware features do you want
[00:55]	<daurnimator>	eg, i want a CS4398 D/A
[00:55]	<daurnimator>	wifi (for wireless transferring, and listening to streams)
[00:55]	<daurnimator>	bluetooth (so you can directly interface with A2DP headphones)
[00:56]	<crweb>	what do i want, I want atleast an xscale 400mhz arm, with a digital signal processor at like 250mhz
[00:56]	<daurnimator>	i would *like* a gps, something like the Epson S4E19863
[00:57]	<daurnimator>	i'm undecided on a camera, but the dm320 has a great camera interface SITTING there, the new superthin 3mp samsung chip would be nice
[00:57]	<crweb>	so.. you want an iphone with buttons?
[00:58]	<crweb>	only bigger and more clunky
[00:58]	<daurnimator>	uh
[00:58]	<daurnimator>	did i say phone?>
[00:59]	<crweb>	who said you had to use the phone
[00:59]	<daurnimator>	i want something close to a pda, but with lots of storage in a small package
[00:59]	<crweb>	all it is is a speaker and a mic slit on each side
[00:59]	<crweb>	bam, you have phone
[01:00]	<daurnimator>	heh
[01:00]	<daurnimator>	that wouldn't be bad, but aren't gsm chips rather expensive?
[01:01]	<crweb>	and gps is cheap?
[01:43]	<crweb>	you would think that apple could lock the phone "area" of the firmware and allow 3rd party apps to not touch the "cell network"
[01:43]	<crweb>	i think the truth is, they didn't want to
[01:44]	<crweb>	then you wouldn't have to buy apps from them
[05:04]	<crweb>	nerochiaro: got taglib working. statically linking though
[05:04]	<crweb>	dll wouldn't be hard though
[05:04]	<crweb>	qt's build system handles it very nicely
[05:04]	<crweb>	off to bed for real.
[05:04]	<nerochiaro>	wasn't you asleep ?
[05:04]	<crweb>	got destracted
[05:05]	<crweb>	distracted
[05:06]	<nerochiaro>	:)
[05:06]	<crweb>	that was a lot easier than writing it
[05:06]	<crweb>	Im just going to use the c/basic api right now
[05:07]	<nerochiaro>	yeah, for basic stuff is ok
[05:07]	<crweb>	learned how to access strange libraries though, and how to read the docs'
[05:07]	<nerochiaro>	"strange" ?
[05:07]	<crweb>	most people just dont realize how amazing qt's docs are
[05:07]	<nerochiaro>	like, me
[05:07]	<crweb>	i've been babied into this nice list of classes with each function throughly described on usage
[05:08]	<nerochiaro>	shows they have people paid to write docs, which is a good thing
[05:08]	<crweb>	qt-assistant
[05:08]	<crweb>	the web docs are almost as good
[05:08]	<crweb>	same thing just not as searchable
[05:08]	<crweb>	you actually have to look and click
[05:09]	<crweb>	yeah, they are def. not autogenerated
[05:11]	* nerochiaro  point to the clock ;)
[05:51]	<daurnimator>	hi
[07:18]	<daurnimator>	hey
[07:18]	<daurnimator>	anyone else have an issue with 0.54 and tv?
[07:19]	<daurnimator>	its as if its always on ntsc or something similar
[07:19]	<daurnimator>	though when i change it to PAL, it changes a bit
[07:19]	<nerochiaro>	sure your cabled are ok ?
[07:19]	<nerochiaro>	cables
[07:19]	<daurnimator>	yes
[12:50]	<may1937>	is nathhan crawford here?
[13:15]	<natetrue>	i'm nate true
[13:15]	<natetrue>	does that count
[13:18]	<may1937>	that depends
[13:18]	<may1937>	did you work at ingenient?
[13:31]	<may1937>	hello JoeBorn , how did cces go?
[13:32]	<JoeBorn>	not too bad, it was pretty tiring, but it was cool to meet Nate and his posse
[13:39]	<may1937>	so it was just kind of bad? =]
[14:08]	<JoeBorn>	well, it's just a really tiring show, I've been attending for 12 years or something so the novelty has really worn off for me.
[15:55]	<crweb>	nerochiaro: i have the offical uImage/rootfs if you want it
[15:55]	<crweb>	nerochiaro: and I think an ftp login to get them
[17:09]	<JoeBorn>	sorry for the late notice
[17:09]	<JoeBorn>	open.neurostechnology.com
[17:17]	<crweb>	JoeBorn: you've missed a lot of the build talk
[17:18]	<crweb>	JoeBorn: we all actually decided what we should due on tuesday or so. You might want to read the logs
[17:23]	<JoeBorn>	oh, well that's great then.
[17:23]	<JoeBorn>	read the logs from tuesday you say?
[17:33]	<crweb>	i think it was tues
[22:39]	<daurnimator>	yo
[22:57]	<Ycros>	argh, 3am
[22:58]	<Ycros>	I'll see if I'm able to make it
[22:58]	<daurnimator>	hey Ycros
[22:58]	<daurnimator>	you ready?
[22:58]	<Ycros>	hmm? :)
[22:59]	<Ycros>	for lca?
[22:59]	<Ycros>	yeah. I got dual head going on my laptop, which took a while to get the hang of
[22:59]	<Ycros>	I hear keith packard has some awesome stuff which will make it all plug and play under X
[23:00]	<Ycros>	he's giving a talk on it infact
[23:00]	<Ycros>	I've got a structure for my show and tell, I'm just filling it out
[23:13]	<daurnimator>	make sure its recorded
[23:16]	<Ycros>	it probably will me