[00:00]	<daurnimator>	ok :S
[00:00]	<daurnimator>	btw
[00:00]	<daurnimator>	you have the google scripts etc in there
[00:00]	<daurnimator>	just quickly for me
[00:00]	<daurnimator>	have you got that cmd window open?
[00:05]	<daurnimator>	JoeBorn: after in the scripts subdirectory, run:
[00:05]	<daurnimator>	..\lua5.1.exe googlevid.lua 8290171375536414593
[00:08]	<JoeBorn>	seems to work
[00:16]	<daurnimator>	ok
[00:16]	<daurnimator>	and try with youtube as wekk
[00:36]	<srobertson>	JoeBorn: ping
[00:42]	<[g2]>	sumasuma turtle beach sells a $29 USB audio adapter that's got digital out
[00:42]	<[g2]>	iirc it's the "Audio Advantage"
[00:43]	<srobertson>	yeah, and alsa drivers too, although we'd need to rewire the backend to support that (i didn't read all the log, so sorry if i'm repeating someone else)
[00:43]	<[g2]>	I've run it on my XScale, so you could build the driver for it and use that for digital out
[00:48]	<sumasuma>	i c
[00:48]	<sumasuma>	[g2] thanks
[00:54]	<[g2]>	sumasuma I read back a little further in the log and it seems you want a LAN to 5.1 passthrough
[00:57]	<crweb>	I have a question for all those developers
[00:57]	<crweb>	How do I compile my program "MyProgram", and link to a library that I don't have, all I have is headers
[01:00]	<[g2]>	crweb I'm not sure what your question really is. Typically, the "headers" *.h file defines the interface used the the library (static or dynamic) that should be in the linker's library path
[01:00]	<[g2]>	so basically at link time, all the unresolved references get pull in
[01:00]	<crweb>	right, I need to compile without the .so file on my system
[01:00]	<[g2]>	in the static case, or at run-time with the dynamic case
[01:01]	<crweb>	if it is run on target system the .so will be there
[01:02]	<crweb>	i want to compile my app, without having to compile nmsd basically
[01:02]	<crweb>	all I really "have" to have are the headers. My compile complains when it can't find the funtions in the library.so file though
[01:04]	<[g2]>	crweb the linker wants the .so around to resolve all the references
[01:04]	<crweb>	yeah. how do i stop that?
[01:05]	<[g2]>	stub all the references, which may or may not work
[01:05]	<crweb>	how does it work with the kernel?
[01:05]	<crweb>	all i need are headers to compile/use the kernel
[01:06]	<[g2]>	right that's different, as the interface through the kernel is via system calls
[01:07]	<crweb>	it doesn't actually link to anything ?
[01:07]	<[g2]>	so it's basically 2 worlds, user space versus kernel space
[01:08]	<[g2]>	right
[01:09]	<[g2]>	I'm pretty should one could code up a syscall in asm and just invoke the kernel if you setup the API properly
[01:09]	<[g2]>	but your issue is really with the secondary references
[01:10]	<crweb>	right
[01:10]	<[g2]>	you .so uses some stuff like libc
[01:10]	<crweb>	where would i learn about stub ?
[01:11]	<[g2]>	crweb I think all you need to do is dump the references from the .so
[01:11]	<crweb>	k
[01:12]	<[g2]>	then generate a small stub that's got those
[01:12]	<[g2]>	basically, it'd be the information that the linker would need to feel "complete"
[01:13]	<crweb>	could I ignore linker errors and let the link complete?
[01:13]	<[g2]>	you could also compile without linking
[01:14]	<crweb>	how would that work though? link it on the system?
[01:14]	<crweb>	i've got like 50 libs
[01:15]	<[g2]>	well it sound to me like you are building a library of your own
[01:15]	<[g2]>	so you could pre-link all you stuff into a bundle
[01:16]	<[g2]>	your
[01:16]	<[g2]>	your stuff
[01:16]	<crweb>	qt4, neuros-nmsd, taglib, and then my own
[01:19]	<sourcerror>	crweb: you are wanting to call nmsd functions?
[01:21]	<crweb>	yes
[01:21]	<crweb>	but I didn't want to have to compile nmsd
[01:22]	<crweb>	or have the libs on my system
[01:22]	<crweb>	its ok though, I'll just do it the normal way
[01:22]	<sourcerror>	ok. yea you shouldn't have to. from what I understand you talk to it through the socket, right?
[01:25]	* [g2]  trundles off to sleep
[01:25]	<[g2]>	nite all
[01:27]	<sourcerror>	...but for testing interaction outside of the OSD, it would be nice to have a stubbed nmsd (just logging commands and state change)
[01:37]	<sourcerror>	crweb: I think the only source you need in your code is the client (Neuros-Cooler/src/nmc/client-nms.c).
[01:37]	<crweb>	I don't need any source code
[01:38]	<crweb>	that is why there are libraries
[01:38]	<sourcerror>	Oh I didn't notice whether the client-nms was a library already or built into cooler.
[01:39]	<sourcerror>	I guess it is built into libncooler
[01:39]	<sourcerror>	But there is not much to it. The client should be it's own library.
[01:40]	<sourcerror>	...not merged into ncooler I think.
[01:45]	<daurnimator>	i think most things so far have been done the wrong way
[01:46]	<sourcerror>	It could make sense if you really think ncooler is the monolitic platform to do everything else, but in this case for what crweb wants it seems it would be better to have smaller sub modules.
[01:47]	<crweb>	sourcerror: you are correct
[01:47]	<crweb>	sourcerror: i'm not happy about having to build ncooler and include it
[01:47]	<crweb>	sourcerror: it should be different systems. Ncooler should provide and interface, not be part of the interface.
[01:47]	* sourcerror  finally catches up
[01:48]	<crweb>	hopefully, i will be writing a non-ncooler interface for other people to use
[01:48]	<crweb>	IF i can't get gao to take out ncooler
[01:49]	<sumasuma>	what is the DSP chip does the OSD has?
[01:50]	<daurnimator>	c54x
[01:51]	<sumasuma>	you mean there are two processors inside the OSD
[01:51]	<sumasuma>	one for the host and one for the DSP ?
[01:52]	<daurnimator>	yes
[01:52]	* sourcerror  deja vu
[01:52]	<sumasuma>	what is the host processor details ?
[01:52]	<daurnimator>	arm9
[01:52]	<daurnimator>	200Mhz
[01:52]	<sumasuma>	where can i get complete information about the processor capabilities ?
[01:53]	<daurnimator>	you can't
[01:53]	<daurnimator>	top secret stuff
[01:53]	<sumasuma>	:)
[01:53]	<daurnimator>	wikipedia
[01:53]	<daurnimator>	;)
[01:53]	<sourcerror>	a guy named suma asked about that earlier and... well you know
[01:53]	<sourcerror>	...never heard from again
[01:54]	<daurnimator>	ARM926EJ-S
[01:54]	<daurnimator>	220 MIPS @ 200 MHz
[01:54]	<daurnimator>	now, you can go look on arm website with that model #
[01:55]	<daurnimator>	also look here: wiki.neurostechnology.com
[01:57]	<crweb>	JoeBorn: ping
[01:58]	<daurnimator>	also for suma's interest: focus.ti.com
[01:59]	<crweb>	JoeBorn: i was thinking about writing a ML post about how alternative gui's, custom flash's, and other alternative software not developed by neuros effects neuros business and development.
[01:59]	<crweb>	JoeBorn: I'm not going to waste my time if internal dev's don't read it.
[02:01]	<sourcerror>	crweb's manifesto :)
[02:01]	<sumasuma>	thannks alro
[02:02]	<sumasuma>	*thanks all
[02:02]	<sumasuma>	sourcerror: i was the one asking about it, i was in assumption that dsp and hos are the same processor
[02:02]	<sumasuma>	*host
[02:03]	<sumasuma>	How is the data is passed to the DSP? (I2C, PCI .... ?)
[02:04]	<crweb>	sumasuma: it is passed to the dsp by the arm cpu
[02:04]	<crweb>	the dsp is another "core" of the DM320
[02:05]	<crweb>	DM320 consists of a arm9, and c54x dsp
[02:05]	<sumasuma>	ic both are in a single chip ?
[02:05]	<daurnimator>	yes
[02:05]	<crweb>	everything is on a single chip
[02:06]	<daurnimator>	the one in the very middle
[02:06]	<daurnimator>	with a TI logo
[02:06]	<crweb>	usb, ethernet, dsp, arm9, sd, CF
[02:06]	<daurnimator>	ethernet isn't
[02:06]	<sumasuma>	how to interface the dsp chip through arm9 ?
[02:06]	<daurnimator>	i think
[02:06]	<crweb>	it snot?
[02:06]	<crweb>	sumasuma: you don't
[02:06]	<daurnimator>	pretty sure ethernet is seperate
[02:06]	<crweb>	sumasuma: actually with asm
[02:07]	<sumasuma>	ooo, hectic right ?
[02:07]	<crweb>	wiki.neurostechnology.com
[02:07]	<crweb>	read this
[02:07]	<crweb>	lots of links about what DSP's, DM320 and all these things are
[02:07]	<sumasuma>	if we write a application for dsp, we should be able to pass the binary to it and make it to execute
[02:08]	<crweb>	yeah you can
[02:08]	<crweb>	thats what the codec's are
[02:08]	<crweb>	but you'd have to write your application in c54x asm
[02:08]	<sumasuma>	i have the TI compiler for c54x
[02:09]	<sumasuma>	Code Composer Studio
[02:09]	<sumasuma>	I guess, i can make use of it ?
[02:21]	<crweb>	daurnimator: you are correct, my mistake. It has a davicom ehternet chipset
[02:21]	<daurnimator>	yes!
[02:21]	<daurnimator>	i HAVE learnt something
[02:21]	<daurnimator>	:D
[02:22]	<sumasuma>	is there next version of OSD in release ?
[02:22]	<sumasuma>	442 ?
[02:23]	<daurnimator>	no
[02:23]	<sumasuma>	oh ok
[02:23]	<crweb>	there is talk of the next unitx using davinci
[02:23]	<daurnimator>	neuros has 3 product lines
[02:23]	<daurnimator>	recorder (osd too) - records tv to portable devices
[02:23]	<daurnimator>	N - portable music players
[02:24]	<daurnimator>	and the 442 line (442v2 is next) - a video player
[02:24]	<sumasuma>	mmmm ..
[02:24]	<daurnimator>	JoeBorn: have we decided to put N3 ahead of 442v2?
[02:25]	<daurnimator>	sumasuma: most of us are all hanging out for the N3
[02:26]	<crweb>	they are?
[02:26]	<crweb>	huh
[02:26]	<crweb>	the osd is so much more fun though
[02:26]	<nerochiaro>	crweb: why ?
[02:27]	<nerochiaro>	crweb: why more fun, i mean
[02:27]	<crweb>	cause it does so much
[02:27]	<crweb>	it could be like a little tivo
[02:28]	<crweb>	ethernet, tvout.. IR, usb keyboards and mice
[02:28]	<crweb>	loads of potential
[02:28]	<nerochiaro>	i grant you that, but it's stuck too near to a full blown pc. so one would use the pc for all the cool stuff
[02:28]	<daurnimator>	i don't even have a tv
[02:28]	<nerochiaro>	with a portable, you're more tempted to experiment
[02:28]	<nerochiaro>	at least me
[02:28]	<daurnimator>	nerochiaro: i agree
[02:29]	<crweb>	N3 is portable audio though
[02:29]	<crweb>	right?
[02:29]	<daurnimator>	well, it was originally
[02:29]	<nerochiaro>	crweb: will do video too, it's the fad today
[02:29]	<crweb>	ah
[02:29]	<daurnimator>	but, its been soo long since it was incepted
[02:29]	<daurnimator>	that its grown
[02:29]	<crweb>	nvmind then
[02:29]	<crweb>	all it will miss is usb
[02:29]	<daurnimator>	- and the DM320 just calls for things
[02:29]	<crweb>	err, ethernet
[02:29]	<nerochiaro>	"we have a processor that does video, why not doing video since "it's free"" (and of course i can give out a ton of good reasons, but ...)
[02:29]	<daurnimator>	it will have wifi if i get my way
[02:30]	<crweb>	i want bluetooth
[02:30]	<daurnimator>	the OSD was sort of presented as a run up to N3 - something to get use to the platform
[02:30]	<daurnimator>	i want bluetooth, wifi, FM (Rx&Tx)
[02:30]	<nerochiaro>	daurnimator: which was perfectly true. it made know the platform
[02:30]	<crweb>	i want it to have wheels and push it around like a matchbox car too
[02:31]	<daurnimator>	theres tiny, low power,low cost chips that do bluetooth, wifi and recive FM
[02:31]	* crweb  really hopes its not c54x based
[02:31]	<daurnimator>	and FM transmit is a given - the highest requested feature a while back
[02:31]	<daurnimator>	crweb: N3 will be DM320 :(
[02:31]	<crweb>	dm320 != c54x
[02:32]	<nerochiaro>	crweb: sorry ?
[02:32]	<daurnimator>	TMS320C54S or something
[02:32]	<daurnimator>	its c54x dsp'd
[02:32]	<daurnimator>	same as OSD
[02:32]	<crweb>	the 320 is a platform
[02:33]	<crweb>	the dsp's change
[02:33]	<nerochiaro>	crweb: yeah, but neuros invested in the 54x codecs, they would've to buy others if we go another dsp
[02:33]	<crweb>	the davinci stuff has gstreamer codecs
[02:34]	<crweb>	is what i've been hearing
[02:34]	<daurnimator>	yeah
[02:34]	<daurnimator>	but.... we're using c54x
[02:34]	<nerochiaro>	crweb: davinci is a different plaform from dm320 no ?
[02:34]	<nerochiaro>	crweb: dsp aside
[02:34]	<daurnimator>	i don't think there is any argument on the topic :S
[02:35]	<crweb>	i guess.. its very hard to tell
[02:35]	<crweb>	from their website at least
[02:35]	<nerochiaro>	anyway, joe has been talking a lot about the catalog group (which is davinci's) so maybe there will be a move to that
[02:36]	<crweb>	TMS320DM64x
[02:36]	<crweb>	is divinci
[02:36]	<crweb>	TMS320 seems to be constant
[02:36]	<nerochiaro>	didn't know that. the 64x dsps are FP and have a gcc port, IIRC
[02:37]	<crweb>	devinci's are completely 100% compat with all C6*** cores
[02:37]	<crweb>	TMS320 is the platform so, same platform, different DSP's
[02:38]	<nerochiaro>	nice
[02:38]	<crweb>	the core's change depending on purpose C5x for power efficiency, C6x for high performance
[02:39]	<nerochiaro>	on a portable power is king, though
[02:39]	<crweb>	new managment over the Davinci line, i guess warrants the "name change"
[02:39]	<crweb>	but it is still TMS320
[02:39]	<nerochiaro>	yeah, although they should've respected the poor man and spelled the name properly
[02:40]	<crweb>	well, its actually, DaVinci
[02:41]	<nerochiaro>	and it's still wrong. it's Da Vinci
[02:41]	<crweb>	they have to make it look "cool"
[02:41]	<nerochiaro>	yeah
[02:41]	<crweb>	coud you trade mark Da Vinci
[02:44]	* nerochiaro  hears him rolling in a grave
[02:45]	<crweb>	i misspelled jwu in my last ML post...
[02:45]	<crweb>	to bad theres no, wait, edit button before mass mailing
[02:46]	<nerochiaro>	there's. read carefully before posting
[02:46]	<crweb>	pfft
[02:46]	<crweb>	that would just be rediculus
[02:47]	<crweb>	hah
[02:47]	<crweb>	what are the odds
[02:47]	<nerochiaro>	heh
[02:47]	<jwu>	crweb: you are hold day not present
[02:48]	<crweb>	whole?
[02:48]	<crweb>	yeah, life sometimes gets in the way when you work on projects for free.
[02:48]	<jwu>	yes , i am type wrong
[02:49]	<crweb>	heh, i'm lyin. I slept. life... hah...
[02:50]	<crweb>	err, lieing even
[02:50]	<jwu>	aren't you feel so free
[02:50]	<crweb>	:)
[02:50]	<jwu>	before
[02:51]	<crweb>	anyway, all the networking system changes are in the svn. and it all works and is ready except osdmain
[02:51]	<crweb>	how is your code coming?
[02:51]	<jwu>	the code is availabe
[02:52]	<crweb>	is it in svn, or can i get it somewhere?
[02:52]	<jwu>	I have not commit it
[02:53]	<crweb>	ok, could I get the code (patch) so i can continue to test with the full system. before we commit to it.
[02:56]	<jwu>	how do i send file to you?
[02:56]	<crweb>	mailing list please
[02:56]	<crweb>	under "new networking system"
[02:57]	* daurnimator  wishes for an fpu
[02:57]	<nerochiaro>	daurnimator: for what ?
[02:58]	<daurnimator>	more selection in things to port
[02:58]	<daurnimator>	and better audio reproduction
[02:58]	<jwu>	btw what is the meaning of "what are the odds"
[02:58]	<nerochiaro>	what you need to port that needs fp so badly ?
[02:59]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: "what just happened have really a low probability of happening"
[02:59]	<daurnimator>	origin being that if you put a bet on it happening, the odds (winnings) would have been really high
[03:00]	<nerochiaro>	daurnimator: very low
[03:00]	<nerochiaro>	daurnimator: isn't "the odds" the probability, not the winnings ?
[03:00]	<daurnimator>	yeah
[03:00]	<daurnimator>	w/e
[03:01]	<daurnimator>	i'm tired :P
[03:01]	<daurnimator>	and very bored
[03:01]	<nerochiaro>	:)
[03:01]	<daurnimator>	but, its onlu 8ppm
[03:01]	<daurnimator>	i can't goto bed yet :S
[03:05]	<jwu>	crweb: where is the mail list i am not farmiliar with it
[03:06]	<crweb>	jwu: the google groups mailing list where we started the discussion on the new network system
[03:06]	<nerochiaro>	groups.google.com
[03:06]	<crweb>	yeah, that
[03:06]	<crweb>	nerochiaro: coolers coming out of nmsd
[03:07]	<crweb>	or actually nmsd library is coming out of cooler
[03:09]	<nerochiaro>	will need some time to thaw
[03:09]	<crweb>	will happen, is good enough for me
[03:09]	<crweb>	at least it wasn't shot down
[03:09]	<nerochiaro>	was actually a stupid joke on "coming out of cooler"
[03:10]	<crweb>	ah, yeah i missed that
[03:10]	<crweb>	funny though
[03:10]	<nerochiaro>	don't worry, it's just that i have to get another cup of tea. it's just 10 AM
[03:12]	<nerochiaro>	but it's good news, that separation
[03:14]	<daurnimator>	can someone please explain what all these parts art?
[03:14]	<daurnimator>	*are
[03:14]	<daurnimator>	nmsd, cooler, etc
[03:14]	<daurnimator>	i'm lost in defs
[03:15]	<nerochiaro>	nsmd = media server, cooler = widgets + support library. what else ?
[03:16]	<daurnimator>	nanoX is just slimmed down X?
[03:16]	<daurnimator>	what actually sends stuff to mnsd?
[03:17]	<nerochiaro>	no, nano-x is not x on a diet. is a windowing system of his own
[03:17]	<nerochiaro>	your app sends stuff to nmsd
[03:19]	<jwu>	nerochiaro: you like tea?
[03:20]	<nerochiaro>	jwu: a lot
[03:20]	<crweb>	i make tea by the gallon
[03:20]	<crweb>	coffee makes me choke
[03:20]	<nerochiaro>	cofee drills holes in my stomach
[03:21]	<crweb>	i love the smell though
[03:21]	<jwu>	cofee smell good
[03:21]	<nerochiaro>	smell is ok. but can't drink it. especially espresso, which is 99% of the cofee here
[03:22]	<jwu>	but its alimentation is not so good as tea
[03:23]	<jwu>	Joe love cofee very much
[03:25]	<crweb>	jwu: get that code sent?
[03:26]	<daurnimator>	if i drink coffee each day for a week
[03:26]	<daurnimator>	i get a saw throat
[03:26]	<daurnimator>	soar?
[03:26]	<crweb>	sore
[03:27]	<jwu>	crweb: which topic
[03:27]	<crweb>	jwu: build system cleanup
[03:29]	<jwu>	you dirrectly give me the e-mail address
[03:30]	<crweb>	tom@limesg.com
[03:35]	<jwu>	you named tom?
[03:35]	<jwu>	crweb: the code sent
[03:38]	<crweb>	Tom Bruno, yes
[03:39]	<crweb>	Tom Bruno on the list, and ondt, and crweb are one in the same
[03:39]	<jwu>	ah
[03:40]	<jwu>	are you still in school?
[03:56]	* TankC  is away: Zzzzz
[03:56]	<crweb>	jwu: I am. I'm a Psychology, and Computer Science student
[03:57]	<crweb>	at a university a few hours south of chicago
[04:00]	<jwu>	I think you do not need to stay at school
[04:00]	<jwu>	crweb: your knowledge and experent is so much
[04:00]	<crweb>	I can't perscribe medicine yet. I've got a year to go before I can do that.
[04:01]	<jwu>	what is perscribe
[04:02]	<crweb>	legally giving out prescription medication
[04:05]	<crweb>	jwu: i've been working with linux sinec 1998
[04:05]	<crweb>	since
[04:06]	<crweb>	I still feel I should finish school
[04:07]	<crweb>	college is more about learning discipline and how to research than learning about things in the course work.
[04:07]	<crweb>	many would disagree with me though
[04:09]	<jwu>	you learn how to research but we learn how to exam
[04:09]	<crweb>	I've heard many chinese in Computer Science say that
[04:10]	<crweb>	We are one of the major exchange student universities in the USA. almost 50% of my classmates are indian and chinese
[04:11]	<crweb>	sorry, indian or chinese
[04:11]	<sourcerror>	crweb: I thought every US university was like that :)
[04:11]	<crweb>	sourcerror: not really
[04:12]	<crweb>	sourcerror: there are thousands of private universities
[04:12]	<jwu>	exchange student? it means there are students from your school to China?
[04:13]	<crweb>	I believe so
[04:13]	<crweb>	I've never asked. I assumed it was exchange
[04:13]	<crweb>	maybe not
[04:14]	<crweb>	i do not know if there is actual exchange students. I do know that we get offered to do overseas studies in sweden, france, japan, china, and india
[04:15]	<sourcerror>	reciprocal agreement between universities?
[04:15]	<crweb>	cost a lot of money
[04:15]	<crweb>	sourcerror: yes
[04:16]	<sourcerror>	human time sharing
[04:16]	<sourcerror>	time shares
[04:16]	<crweb>	my normal semester is $10k, overseas semesters are $22k
[04:18]	<crweb>	We have a huge international population
[04:18]	<crweb>	its pretty cool
[04:18]	<crweb>	especially being stuck in the middle of the USA
[04:20]	<crweb>	It also has the #1 CESL (Center for English as a Second Language)
[04:20]	<crweb>	acording to wikipedia
[04:20]	<crweb>	John Belushi created his "College" t-shirt while he attended SIU.
[04:21]	<crweb>	from animal house
[04:23]	<jwu>	you are not exhausted today
[04:23]	<sourcerror>	crweb: I'm anxious to read your manifesto
[04:23]	<crweb>	jwu: i switched my sleep schedule. I'm basically on china time
[04:24]	<crweb>	sleep 3pm to 11pm
[04:25]	<jwu>	oh, what is your school time?
[04:25]	<crweb>	10am - 2pm
[04:26]	<crweb>	this sleep thing is temporary
[04:26]	<crweb>	I didn't do it on purpose
[04:27]	<jwu>	yes ,but you always do that and be used to that
[04:27]	<crweb>	sourcerror: you mean on alternative flash's and gui's and how it benifits neuros?