Log from #neuros IRC channel

Hahaha "and blessed be the folks that helped lower the standard of journalism to the point you could write about things without having to pretend you even have a vague understanding of what they mean!"

[06:04]

anders_: yeah, i chuckled on that too :)

[06:04]

well, thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you guys thought it was funny.

[06:05]

I really don't get much feedback on OdNT

[06:06]

<anders_>

Is there some nice way to see what patches there are on nano-x?

[06:06]

anders_: aside of a diff on original source, i don't think so.

[06:07]

<anders_>

nerochiaro: That doesn't really qualify as "nice" to me.

[06:07]

anders_: i know :) Gao and the team might know more, but i'm not sure they bothered preparing patch sets for the things they changed

[06:08]

<anders_>

I wish the buildenvironment was like openwrt's.

[06:10]

anders_: were there really lots of changes on nano-x anyway ?

[06:11]

what do you mean "like openwrt's?"

[06:12]

<anders_>

JoeBorn: An external package is defined like this in openwrt's buildroot: nbd.name

[06:12]

anyway, we're going home, will try to be back online in a couple hours.

[06:13]

i'm going to lunch too

[06:13]

<anders_>

The pristine source is not even included. Only patches.

[06:14]

oh, I see.

[06:14]

anders_: one thing that makes me a bit uncomfortable there

[06:14]

I don't really know enough to fully appreciate that.

[06:14]

anders_: is the way they crate this complex makefile hack, and you build your own reciped upon that

[06:15]

anders_: but if something is not right, i am sure it's hell trying to fix it

[06:15]

nerochiaro, "they" being openwrt?

[06:15]

yes

[06:16]

"Through what can only be described as blatant disregard and abuse of the traditional make format, the makefile has been transformed into an object oriented template which simplifies the entire ordeal"

[06:16]

<anders_>

nerochiaro: Yes, their makefile magic is a bit scary at times.

[06:16]

oh.

[06:17]

anders_: i'm sure as long as it works it's peachy. but i don't even want to start and try to understand what's under the hood

[06:17]

make alone gives me headaches at times

[06:18]

<anders_>

nerochiaro: I was mostly referring to their handling of patches. By putting each change in a separate patch file in a patches/ directory and not even shipping the source.

[06:18]

oh, yes, that is very good

[06:18]

<anders_>

Which makes it trival to see what changes has been done. And also makes it very easy to change upstream version.

[06:19]

well, you probably have to throw away and change some patches if you change upstream, but i agree

[06:20]

<anders_>

Yes, but finding what patches that needs to be changed/removed is much easier.

[06:21]

it can already be done on top of our current system

[06:22]

just it's too late now

[06:22]

also sometimes order of patches is important

[06:23]

<anders_>

Yes. That is why you call them 001-what_it_does.patch 002-...

[06:23]

anders_: ever seen the version control system called "darcs" ?

[06:23]

<anders_>

Never used it.

[06:23]

it works on this exact principle

[06:24]

<anders_>

Seen quilt? :)

nope

linkie ?

<anders_>

anders_: point is, there are many ways of managing that, but it have to be started from initial import. it's a bit too late now

[06:30]

<anders_>

Indeed.

[06:31]

lunch!

[06:31]

be back later

[06:51]

<anders_>

Mixed line endings *sigh*

[07:00]

?

[07:23]

<anders_>

Some files has mixed LF / CRLF line endings.

[07:38]

anders_: doesn't surprise me since there's also no consistent rule for writing code

[08:01]

Oh

[08:03]

Is there a VM appliance being released with all the stuff setup and ready to use for development?

[08:04]

AsGF2MX: an appliance ?

[08:04]

The stuff that you can play using VMPlayer...aren't they termed VM appliances?

[08:05]

ah, not sure. anyway crweb said he was working on that

[08:06]

nerochiaro: It can't be that difficult...can it?

[08:07]

i suppose not, but not having tried myself i'm not sure

[08:07]

nerochiaro: I mean seeing as he's got everything setup on his PC - tried and tested configs

[08:08]

yes, but what's below these that have to be setup. a minimal debian-based system that can support the build

[08:08]

putting the dev env on top of that is probably the easy part

[08:09]

I suppose

[08:09]

but when you say minimal, what do you mean?

[08:10]

a debian-based linux system that you can boot into and be ready to do developement. which means it doesn't need a lots of stuff from a full blown system, but also needs to be careful to have everything we need

[08:11]

So sort of absolute-necessities only

[08:11]

indeed

[08:12]

also i'm not familiar with vmware player

[08:12]

but there have to be a way to interact with that env from outside

[08:12]

I've used VMPlayer in windows - I actually used it to try Linux out before I gave it its own partition and set it up.

[08:13]

You can access the optical drive and the network

[08:13]

with respect to serial port, I'm sure it's possible just have to find out how

[08:14]

so probably the system inside vmware have to be setup to read all actual source from an network mounted disk

[08:14]

otherwise it would make no sense

[08:16]

Well

[08:16]

Using shares is an issue

[08:17]

well, any other way to exchange data with the outside ?

[08:17]

But you can still store files inside its virtual disk

[08:17]

Data exchange of what sort?

[08:18]

i mean, you have to be able to put new sources inside the vm env. and to take them out (or to take out the binaries you produce)

[08:18]

otherwise you're developing in a bubble, what is that useful for ?

[08:21]

Oh

[08:21]

I think we'll need two setups for that

[08:22]

If the thing is being run on windows

[08:23]

Use SMB shares , Linux NFS... but you'll have to remember to copy them out once you're done working in the bubble so to speak...I suppose you'd need shares

[08:42]

nerochiaro: a little digging and I came across this rougebob.com

[08:43]

may not be much but at least indicates that there is a possibility of mounting a real disk (not the virtual disk) within VMPlayer

[08:45]

i think many will find messing with partitions unacceptable

[08:45]

i'm sure there's a simpler way, like sharing a disk image

[08:46]

or a partition image

[08:46]

but messing with real partitions are big no no

[08:46]

I suppose

[08:47]

But if setting up shares is the best way to go, won't that get a little messy?

[08:48]

still better than risking to mess up something in the partitions table

[08:49]

Agreed

[08:49]

* nerochiaro is considering curling up into a ball and sleeping for a few hours

[08:49]

Meeting?

[08:49]

<Ycros>

what are we talking about?

[08:50]

AsGF2MX: when is that ?

[08:50]

Wait...no lunch with gao today?

[08:50]

Ycros: we were talking about how is possible to share data from a vmware machine to the outside

[08:50]

AsGF2MX: no idea

[08:51]

<Ycros>

nerochiaro: network

[08:51]

nerochiaro: hang on let me double check

[08:51]

<Ycros>

samba/ftp/nfs

[08:51]

Ycros: yeah, but could me messy to setup. i suppose it's the only way anyway

[08:52]

<Ycros>

messy to setup?

[08:53]

well, you have to setup nfs shares or an ftp server. i'm not saying it's hard, we were just wondering if there was any more straightforward solution

[08:53]

<Ycros>

just use samba

[08:54]

The last meeting was on Saturday at 4PM...there is a meeting today isn't there?

[08:54]

<Ycros>

samba generally just works from the outside

[08:54]

AsGF2MX: there's a meeting 9 hours from now, more or less, if you're interested

[08:54]

<Ycros>

on most operating systems

[08:54]

AsGF2MX: it's for users, not devs. too bad i won't be able to be there this time too

[08:54]

nerochiaro: The user meeting? I'll probably be there

[08:55]

Ycros: ok

[08:55]

JoeBorn: Is there a meeting in an hour?

no

not that i know of

Oh

where did you see that ?

[08:55]

no, it's in 8 hours or so

[08:56]

I didn't I just assumed there's a weekly european hacker meeting at the same time

[08:56]

Like the US one

[08:57]

When I check ODNT, the meeting seemed routine - 13th then 20th...

[08:59]

So when is the next meeting for the european devs?

[09:02]

AsGF2MX: keep an eye on odnt and you'll find out

[09:03]

nerochiaro: Will do, just making sure I didn't miss it

[09:05]

Let me quickly sift through the last meeting's IRC log

[10:16]

<arkla>

hi all, anybody awake here? downloaded Darren's gapless software for the N II yesterday, works great, it's somewhat faster than the Nueros official i had on too, like scrolling when playing for example. anybody know what the possibility of merging this gapless code into the official one is? not that i really want that, but i liked the play queue and the DJ speed thing was useful for not having to retune my guitar to play along and also for slowing stuff down t

[10:17]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

where did ya fid it

[10:17]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

find

[10:17]

arkla: the chances are really slim, i think

[10:18]

arkla: nobody that i know of is still actively working on the N2

[10:18]

arkla: but then again i didn't know of that gapless version, so i'm a bit out of the N2 loop obviously

[10:19]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

I've posted several time with no reply "How can I turn on and off the record feature on the OSD via the network?

[10:19]

Ya-Nvr-No: posted where ?

[10:19]

in mailing list ?

[10:19]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

Tell me there is a script I can use

[10:20]

Ya-Nvr-No: where did you post about that ?

[10:20]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

Sorry I was assuming he was talking about the OSD

[10:21]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

in the I Need Help forum

[10:21]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

and the Google forum

[10:21]

oh, ok, i've seen that

[10:22]

<arkla>

It's a shame, it would be great to have gapless functionality with the other good stuff from the last official release.

[10:22]

<arkla>

tetris could stay out...

[10:22]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

Is there a script that would Start and Stop Recording using the Built-in Commands at the "#" Prompt?

[10:22]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

I would like to remotely start and stop the Record function via the network without the serial port interface.

[10:22]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

Or is there a circuit layout that would give me the contact points to turn on the record function and then turn it off. I could wire a remote device to that feature.

[10:22]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

My unit is in a different location in my house and I would like to beable to start it quickly online.

[10:22]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

Thanks for any help.

[10:23]

<arkla>

a link to the gapless firmware is here open.neurosaudio.com

[10:23]

<arkla>

or here

[10:23]

<arkla>

www.firelikethis.com

[10:23]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

well how come I dont get "get lost" at least, lol

[10:23]

arkla: i understand that, but officially neuros can't do it, since the product is end-of-the-line. and frankly i don't feel like messing up again with the N2. but why Darren didn't just do the merge himself ?

[10:24]

nerochiaro: hi, what's up?

[10:24]

<arkla>

yeah i don't understand that either, and i don't see any mention of it on the sorune site, and certainly no source

[10:25]

Ya-Nvr-No: to do what you ask you can either write a program that uses nmsd to record and listens to the network for start/stop messages

[10:25]

<arkla>

nerochiaro, i don't remember.. what happened, was the source for the official final official N II source released, wasn't there something with copyright and TI?

[10:25]

Ya-Nvr-No: or you can modify osdmain to listen to the network for these messages

[10:26]

arkla: it was released, but it was incomplete initially. also I and DeepB tried to merge the new official one with GarBage branch but it was hell and basically we gave up

[10:27]

at least i did

[10:27]

shirour: i'm fine. life is quite good at the moment. you ?

[10:27]

<DeepB>

uh?

[10:28]

DeepB: do you remember the merge of 2.28 and the open source version ?

[10:28]

DeepB: the memory map and stuff. it was hell

[10:28]

<arkla>

i suppose i should just forget about and move on away from old technology... i always wanted to have a go at hacking the nII code though.. i had that complier thing installed for ages here, only uninstalled it a few months ago.

[10:29]

arkla: the osd is a much more fun platform for hacking. i still have my n2 here, but don't hack on it anymore

[10:29]

<DeepB>

nerochiaro: yes, i remember

[10:29]

nerochiaro: i'm good.... have been very busy lately

[10:29]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

How about a hardware modification to the board so I can add a remote switch to access the record feature, any chance on getting a circuit layout?

[10:30]

shirour: i've seen there's other people doing m:robe stuff like you

[10:30]

Ya-Nvr-No: i'm not an hardware guy, but i think that won't be any useful. the recording is done by software anyway

[10:32]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

i could control it with a contact closure (short across two connections) this can then be remotely triggered from anywhere

[10:33]

<arkla>

was it hell because the 2.28 source was incomplete or because the GarBage branch was too far removed from it? i wonder if the 2.28 code were availble, could darren's gapless playback be merged? i guess you're right, all the energy it would take me to do that, i would be better off doing some paid work and getting an OSD!

[10:33]

Ya-Nvr-No: ok, but how does the software know that you have triggered it ?

[10:33]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

And it sure would be good for my needs, Im not close to the unit when I need to turn it on

[10:34]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

I assume the software turns on the hardware via a command

[10:34]

arkla: it was hell because as far as i can remember some sections of the memory map were changed, and it was very hard to reconcile the two

[10:34]

Ya-Nvr-No: it's more than "turning the hardware on". recording = encoding, and that's all done by software

[10:35]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

must do more than just turn on the stream

[10:35]

Ya-Nvr-No: if you want to control things remotely, why not just using the IR remote controller ?

[10:35]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

Damn, that screws me

[10:36]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

cause im in a different building

[10:37]

Ya-Nvr-No: if the osd is connected to the network, you don't have problems. you just write a program that listens to the network and starts the recording. or a web interface even.

[10:37]

nerochiaro: Is the nmsd well documented?

[10:37]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

might have to set up a switch to control the remote Record button

[10:37]

AsGF2MX: no, but reading the source and the headers should be enough. also looking into osdmain and seeing how it uses it

[10:38]

Ya-Nvr-No: is your osd connected to the network or not ?

[10:38]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

yes

[10:38]

Ya-Nvr-No: then you don't need to do any hardware modification

[10:38]

Ya-Nvr-No: you can just write a software that triggers recording and activate it along the network

[10:38]

nerochiaro: let me have a look at those headers quickly

[10:40]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

Thats what I asked first, but you assume I have the ability to boot the osd from my network and write the code I'm still having issues with getting it to build

[10:41]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

Have not found any straight forward documentation to get my debian system to work with the OSD build

[10:42]

Ya-Nvr-No: Probably going to be a bit troublesome without the sbox setup I think

[10:42]

Ya-Nvr-No: well, we have a guide that's pretty straight-forward. the one in the channel topic. it's a bit outdated but most of it works

[10:43]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

now ya see my issue

[10:43]

Ya-Nvr-No: and for what doesn't work you can ask for help here

[10:43]

AsGF2MX: it can still be done, many do it

[10:43]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

i just found this site today

[10:44]

Ya-Nvr-No: well, welcome

[10:44]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

There is more scattered info all over the Net about this device

[10:44]

* nerochiaro unfortunately needs to leave in a few minutes from now

[10:44]

Ya-Nvr-No: i know, the info is very scattered

[10:45]

nerochiaro: True, would be nice if it were simplified though. by the way I just looked at the nms header file, seems to be clear cut functions but I don't quite get the parameters

[10:45]

<Ya-Nvr-No>

guess thas what makes it FUN

[10:46]

nerochiaro: yeah, i've published my work. who did you see besides cat?

[10:46]

Ya-Nvr-No: i'm sorry if you find it frustrating. we're trying to make it better and easier, but right now you still need some patience

[10:47]

AsGF2MX: i'll be happy to help you out, but not now. i really need to go

[10:47]

sorry people. i'll be back tomorrow around this time, maybe a bit later

[10:48]

nerochiaro: No problem, I'll see what I can find in the sources

[10:51]

<arkla>

thnx folks... cya later.

[11:09]

crweb: Did you say you had a web server running on the OSD?

[11:45]

<overD-OSD>

anyone here?

[11:59]

I am

[12:00]

but too late :?

[12:01]

<crweb>

AsGF2MX: no I don't. I had said I haddn't seen anyone do it

[12:01]

crweb: oh

[12:02]

crweb: I am just looking at the some web pages, I've been conjuring some web interface concepts...

[12:03]

But I'm not sure how to tie the web inteface to the actual functions and I had a look at the nmsd header file as well

[12:05]

Any ideas?

[13:01]

AsGF2MX: just a quick update. there is a web server that already run on osd

[13:01]

nerochiaro: There is? where?

[13:02]

1 sec

[13:02]

Not something related to the XMMS project is it?

[13:03]

open.neurostechnology.com

[13:04]

not related to xmms2, no

[13:04]

got to go again, now. sorry

no prob

I'm looking at it

Lua...interesting

<crweb>

AsGF2MX: qt4 has built in http

[13:32]

crweb: How do you mean? Server?

[13:33]

<crweb>

has the protocol built in

[13:34]

So building a browser would not be difficult

[13:34]

<crweb>

building a browser isn't difficult

<crweb>

But a server? Hmm

<crweb>

looking

Interesting

The qhttp functions seem to be functions you'd expect in a browser, if I'm not mistaken

[13:40]

Are you using it?

[13:51]

<crweb>

I will be

[13:53]

<crweb>

hmm. those are the client doc's

[13:53]

<crweb>

nvrmind, what I have isn't public

Og

*Oh

<crweb>

<crweb>

built on top of that

[13:56]

What was built on top of that?

[13:56]

Or do you mean, I should build on top of that?

[13:57]

<crweb>

QhttpServer inherits qtcpserver

[13:58]

Oh

[13:59]

Hmm

[14:01]

Though it's tempting to use it, that would require the use Qt though.

[14:01]

As far as I know, on the OSD you're only one using Qt

[14:04]

crweb: Which Qt version are you using?

[14:05]

<crweb>

4.2.2

[14:05]

<crweb>

Qtopica-core 4.2.2

[14:06]

<crweb>

they are the same though

[14:08]

Same at the core but different in the classes provided to different versions?

[14:09]

<crweb>

nothing is different

[14:09]

<crweb>

just compiles/setup is different because one is for cross compiling to embedded

[14:10]

<crweb>

I do all my dev on my pc's qt4.2.2, then when ready compile with qtopia-core 4.2.2

[14:10]

Ok

[14:10]

<crweb>

qtopia has a few extra things. like a graphics server, keyboard and mouse drivers, etc

[14:10]

I think i need to fix the Dc power recepticle on my HD.Can anyone tell me how to access it?

[14:11]

20gb HD

[14:11]

<crweb>

hard drive?

[14:11]

crweb: I'll have to look into those differences

[14:11]

Neuros II HD

[14:11]

<crweb>

well, mobile harddrive have their power built into the cable

[14:11]

the mp3 player from days of old apparently

[14:12]

<crweb>

take a look at 2.5" hard drives

[14:12]

crweb: going to have some dinner, be back shortly

[14:15]

ok.. lemme rephrase. I have a 20gb Neuros II HD digital audio player, circa 2004-2005 that removable 20gb backpack contains the battery as well as the HDD. The charging plug also plugs into this. I think I broke a solder point on this backpack and need to fix it. If Neurous still sold seperate backpacks I'd just buy an 80gb

[14:17]

knew i shoulda bought more backpacks while they were still makin em. My neuros has been my faithful morning Radio distraction for 3 years running. As a DHL courier who spends a lot of time in a delivery truck, they neurous has been a godsend. purely for it's capacity and portability

[14:19]

<crweb>

have you contacted neuros support?

[14:20]

closed on the weekends. I just need to know how to open the bloody thing. since there's no external screws that I can find

[14:20]

<crweb>

oh

[14:20]

<crweb>

chreekat: how did you get yours open?

[14:45]