Log from #neuros IRC channel

crweb: quick question about the qt4 stuff you're working on - is the eventual goal of that to totally change the osdmain app over to qt4, or is it just a supplemental thing?

[10:25]

<crweb>

dotslashlycos: i will be providing my own full featured firmware

[10:26]

<Ycros>

the crweb special

[10:26]

its a Landisk NAS box

[10:26]

generic company name

[10:26]

crweb: nice! i'll be looking forward to that :-D

[10:26]

but I beoieve the firmware is shared amoung many different ones

[10:27]

<Ycros>

I bought an external hdd enclosure which has usb2 and lan

[10:27]

<crweb>

Milesy: can you mount Windows Shares by hand? with mount.cifs //<ip>/share /mountpoint?

[10:27]

<Ycros>

does samba and ftp

[10:27]

<Ycros>

haven't tried it with the osd yet

[10:27]

<crweb>

I think this is a codepage problem

[10:28]

crweb: i havent done by hand. but the osd picks up all the shares on the network automatically though

[10:28]

<crweb>

Milesy: do it by hand

[10:28]

ok loggin in

[10:28]

<crweb>

Milesy: we need to see if it works at all

[10:28]

<crweb>

or just not with LanDisk

[10:28]

<crweb>

but, I think the issue is that cifs is built with a US codepage (491) and you're using a UK codepage.

[10:29]

<crweb>

it will take some time to figure that out though

[10:29]

crweb: any news on the keymaps, by the way ?

[10:29]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: If you can, ask in #ubuntu/#kubuntu several times and idle till someone answers

[10:30]

i'll try that, but i don't really like these large support channels

[10:30]

i've had bad experiences in there

[10:30]

<crweb>

me either, but I found how to change it on a random mailing list

[10:30]

ok

[10:30]

<Ycros>

change what?

[10:31]

<Ycros>

keymaps?

[10:31]

<crweb>

yeah

[10:31]

<crweb>

they aren't saving after reboot i hear

[10:31]

<crweb>

I can't experience such nonsense

[10:32]

indeed. they change but they don't stick among reboots

[10:32]

at least, they didn't the last time i rebooted the vm

[10:32]

<crweb>

as, I built the vm, and chose my codepage as default :)

[10:32]

<crweb>

agh. keymap

[10:33]

crweb: that worked

[10:33]

mount.cifs //192.168.0.6/D /media/yoda/ -o username=username,password=password

[10:33]

mounted fine

[10:33]

it's not i'm going to kill myself about this, i can just add to the startup script the call to dpkg-reconfigure

[10:34]

<crweb>

Milesy: see, thats the difference between a bad expensive product, and a cheap bad product

[10:34]

<crweb>

the bad expensive product works right when you don't expect it to.

[10:35]

<Ycros>

nerochiaro: mine stuck across a reboot

[10:36]

<crweb>

yes thats what im talkin about

[10:36]

<Ycros>

?

[10:36]

<crweb>

descrimination of italians

[10:37]

<Ycros>

nerochiaro: you may find it easier to just use loadkeys

[10:37]

well, allright, if no one of you has this problem, i won't fret about it. will look into loadkeys

[10:37]

<Ycros>

in a startup script or in your bash profile

[10:37]

<Ycros>

loadkeys <keymap>

[10:37]

<Ycros>

I use loadkeys dvorak

[10:37]

<Ycros>

heh

[10:38]

Ycros: i would get mad with a dvorak keyboard. but thanks for he tip, i'll use loadkeys

[10:39]

crweb: anything else that could be worth trying?

[10:39]

<crweb>

Milesy: well, its def your NAS

[10:39]

<crweb>

Milesy: either it is missing code pages, or the OSD is. and I'm pretty sure the OSD isn't

[10:39]

any other tools i could download to the writable part of the osd i could use instead of mount.cifs ?

[10:40]

<Ycros>

username and password? hmm

[10:40]

<crweb>

tools aren't the problem

[10:40]

<crweb>

communication between 2 devices is

[10:40]

<crweb>

Milesy: try mounting the NAS shares on your linux machine

[10:40]

i done that successfully last night.

[10:40]

<crweb>

ok

[10:40]

<crweb>

linux usually has all its code pages

[10:41]

<crweb>

try smbclient -L //<ipaddress> again, and send me the output

[10:41]

crweb: seen that post in ML about smbtree ?

[10:41]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: yeah, doesn't work

[10:42]

<crweb>

it uses nmblookup

[10:42]

i know, but was wondering why you didn't show up

[10:42]

<crweb>

don't want to waste the time. I asked for X, nobody gave me X

[10:42]

what is X ?

[10:42]

<crweb>

even when I begged directly for config files, no body would send them

[10:44]

config files for what ?

[10:44]

<crweb>

smb, dhcp servers, etc

[10:45]

<crweb>

I'm not sure why his smbtree works

[10:45]

pastebin crweb?

[10:45]

<crweb>

thats the problem, its very sparatic when it does work

[10:45]

or here ?

[10:45]

<crweb>

Milesy: cpp.sf.net

[10:45]

crweb: it should work only on non-xp servers, no ?

[10:45]

er, non-xp hosts

[10:45]

<crweb>

correct

[10:46]

so he's probably seeing only the non-xp machines in his network

[10:46]

<crweb>

smbtree works at my office

[10:46]

<crweb>

but I setup a wins server

[10:46]

<crweb>

so, even browsing works

[10:46]

cpp.sourceforge.net

[10:46]

<crweb>

smbtree does not work at my house

[10:46]

works at mine too, but doesn't see xp machines, only servers. that's why i was asking.

[10:47]

and that's what i think he's seeing

[10:47]

<crweb>

wait...

[10:47]

<crweb>

oh nvrmind

[10:47]

<crweb>

i just picked up a roommates XP machine

[10:47]

<crweb>

but, he's running SP1

[10:47]

<crweb>

cli_start_connection: failed to connect to MATT-1959C3B8C7<20> (192.168.1.135)

[10:47]

<crweb>

\\MATT-1959C3B8C7

[10:48]

but as you said sp2 is the problem

[10:48]

<crweb>

right

[10:48]

<crweb>

I'll upgrade him tonight

[10:48]

your roommate ?

[10:48]

<crweb>

He's the only XP machine in the house

[10:48]

<crweb>

yeah

[10:49]

<crweb>

its very hard to test widnows connectivity around here

[10:49]

geek's house ?

[10:49]

<crweb>

no

[10:49]

<crweb>

one has a mac, the other XP

[10:49]

<crweb>

and I have 10 linux

[10:50]

overpowering

[10:50]

<Ycros>

crweb: do not upgrade him to sp2 without him knowing or agreeing

[10:51]

<crweb>

pfft, I do everything for him

[10:51]

<Ycros>

crweb: it will probably break shit

[10:51]

<Ycros>

ah, well, I guess if he's a total noob

[10:51]

<crweb>

I've never had it break anything

[10:51]

<crweb>

you know.. cept samba

[10:52]

<Ycros>

I have

[10:52]

<Ycros>

and I am not alone

[10:52]

<crweb>

I admin about 250 machines, haven't had any problems as of yet

[10:53]

<crweb>

most of the government software runs in dos windows anyway

[10:53]

<Ycros>

we had issues at work as well

[10:53]

<crweb>

i had to make a wins server, that was all

[10:55]

any ideas crweb?

[10:56]

<crweb>

see all that CP850

[10:56]

<crweb>

thats because your NAS is trying to do CP850

[10:56]

<crweb>

set your nas to english

[10:56]

<crweb>

or file a bug with the people that make the NAS

[11:08]

u still about crweb, or are you off now?

[11:09]

<crweb>

i'm still here

[11:14]

did you get the link?

[11:14]

<crweb>

[10:56] <crweb> see all that CP850

[11:14]

<crweb>

[10:56] <crweb> thats because your NAS is trying to do CP850

[11:14]

<crweb>

[10:56] <crweb> set your nas to english

[11:14]

<crweb>

[10:56] <crweb> or file a bug with the people that make the NAS

[11:15]

ah sorry thought that was for someone else

[11:16]

it has lots of encoding options i can choose from

[11:16]

english is the only one that doesnt list a CPxxx number

[11:16]

its set on english at the momebt

[11:17]

<crweb>

cp491

[11:17]

<crweb>

4 something..

[11:17]

i have saved on english again and it says reboot to allow codepage change

[11:19]

the osd still says - init_iconv: Conversion from CP850 to UTF-8 not supported

[11:19]

dont have cp4xx

[11:19]

<crweb>

pick a UTF

[11:20]

dont see that anywhere

[11:20]

only lets me change encoding

[11:20]

i have "central europe" ?

[11:20]

<crweb>

find one that works

[11:21]

<crweb>

then if none, get back to me

[11:21]

cp1250

[11:21]

<crweb>

i got to run

[11:21]

ok thanks :)

[11:22]

<crweb>

btw, it may or may not be the actual problem.

[11:22]

<crweb>

but it is a prob

[13:53]

crweb: no joy with that

[13:53]

when you get back....

[13:53]

i checked dmesg

[13:53]

it says

[13:53]

rejecting I/O to dead device

[13:53]

CIFS VFS: cifs_mount failed w/return code = -5

[13:54]

FAT: bread failed in fat_clusters_flush

[14:31]

crweb: myxman.org

[14:31]

this is my exact problem

anders_: you there?

Good evening!

howdy :)

<cr-tablet>

hello

[17:11]

Is it true that anything compiled in GCC becomes open source?

[17:11]

I strongly doubt it, although I can't point you to a definitive answer off the top of my head

[17:13]

I am told the license more than implies it, but that Visual Studio is the same way. I need to read it myself, but I was wondering what other people's interpretations were.

[17:14]

<cr-tablet>

theolodian: no

[17:14]

<cr-tablet>

theolodian: that is not true

[17:15]

<cr-tablet>

gcc is a compiler. It produces <x> from text files that have special code in them

[17:16]

<cr-tablet>

if your program adds features and takes source code from gcc, then your program would be also open source

[17:16]

that covers the copyright

[17:16]

<cr-tablet>

copyright covers the gcc source

[17:17]

<cr-tablet>

not things produced by gcc

[17:17]

I know that you can dynamically link to some libraries

[17:17]

<cr-tablet>

its not illegal to link to gpl libraries

[17:17]

<cr-tablet>

linking to a library is not the same as modifying and including source code

[17:17]

sorry, I'm being a little slow wiht my responses :)

aha, found something

Is there anywhere 'official' that I can confirm this? If I write 100% original code and compile it in GCC that it will not be open source?

[17:19]

again, I'm too slow ;)

[17:20]

wouldn't GCC copy part of itself into the compiled code?

[17:22]

<cr-tablet>

all a compiler does is take human text, and convert it to machine code

[17:22]

<[g2]>

theolodian GCC output is like open office documents

[17:22]

<cr-tablet>

yeah

[17:22]

<[g2]>

the real question is what libraries you link against

[17:22]

<cr-tablet>

its like saving a html file

[17:22]

That is actually an interesting question. How often do you guys actually look at and read the output of GCC?

[17:22]

<cr-tablet>

netscape/firefox doesn't save a piece of itself with the html file

[17:22]

<[g2]>

chreekat [g2] does from time to time with objdump

[17:23]

I'm sure theolodian isn't the first to ask it, and I'm sure the answer is still "gcc's output is not gpl'd", but I'd be interested to see the discussion

[17:23]

<cr-tablet>

chreekat: thats debugging

[17:23]

<[g2]>

theolodian check with the FSF

[17:23]

<cr-tablet>

gnu doesn't licese the use of gcc

[17:23]

<[g2]>

but really, my understading is that glibc is licensed under LGPL (lesser GPL)

[17:23]

<cr-tablet>

they licensed the source code

[17:24]

<cr-tablet>

and linking is in glibc, not with gcc

[17:24]

I am still reading the bit about the bindings, trying to understand it

[17:24]

<[g2]>

and LGPL allows on distribute the code with less restrictions than GPL (hence the name)

[17:24]

<cr-tablet>

theolodian: you don't need a copy of source, or binary of gcc to run gcc compiled applications

[17:24]

<[g2]>

cr-tablet gcc is built against a libc

[17:24]

<cr-tablet>

"a" libc

[17:25]

<cr-tablet>

built against, just so it can execute.

[17:25]

<[g2]>

it could be glibc/uclibc/newlib/dietlibc/etc...

[17:25]

<cr-tablet>

it reads headers and libraries

[17:25]

<cr-tablet>

it isn't the headers and libraries

[17:25]

cr-tablet: correct, but GPL code could be copied into the application during the compile process

[17:25]

I do realize that people actually objdump stuff, but I guess what I was implying was that most people don't read _all_ its output, and if gcc wanted to be sneaky it could shove stuff in to large programs without much chance of it being caught

[17:25]

<cr-tablet>

theolodian: how?

[17:26]

An extremely hypothetical situation, to be sure. :)

[17:26]

<cr-tablet>

theolodian: you don't ahve any gcc source code when you compile

[17:26]

<cr-tablet>

you don't need gcc's source code to compile

[17:26]

<cr-tablet>

even if it did sneek stuff in

[17:26]

<cr-tablet>

gcc's source code is gpl'd

[17:27]

<cr-tablet>

if you use visual c++, it doesn't suddenly make your app owned by microsoft

[17:27]

Well, if you have 'dothis' and compiling means that it is replaced with a block of code, then that block of code could be GPL?

[17:27]

<cr-tablet>

theolodian: no

[17:28]

<cr-tablet>

there is no "do this"

[17:28]

<cr-tablet>

that stuff comes fromt he standard libraries

[17:28]

<cr-tablet>

gcc is just a compiler

[17:28]

That was just a fancy 'X'

[17:28]

And this bindings thing means that the libraries could make your stuff GPL

[17:29]

<cr-tablet>

theolodian: thats an issue between the libraries an your application

[17:29]

<cr-tablet>

not gcc

[17:29]

<cr-tablet>

assuming you're using glibc, it is lgpl, which allows linking by closed source application

[17:30]

<cr-tablet>

library code isn't "copied" into your binary

[17:30]

<cr-tablet>

its in libraries

[17:30]

<cr-tablet>

gcc doesn't "copy" things into your binary

[17:30]

<cr-tablet>

it takes what you type and turns it to asm

[17:30]

OK, so if the libraries allow dynamic linking without making your stuff GPL, then you can use GCC with no other worries?

[17:31]

<cr-tablet>

kind of

[17:31]

<cr-tablet>

you can always use gcc with no worries

[17:32]

<cr-tablet>

but as always, you have to look at what you link to

[17:32]

<cr-tablet>

you don't have to use the standard libraries

[17:32]

<cr-tablet>

you can write your own

[17:32]

I think that I'm following you. Thanks for being so patient

[17:32]

<cr-tablet>

compilers don't have a "dothis" function. They build the function you type in your src

[17:33]

<cr-tablet>

so output is totally based on your source

[17:33]

<cr-tablet>

not on gcc

[17:33]

<cr-tablet>

libraries are just things other people have typed

[17:33]

<cr-tablet>

that you can reference

[17:33]

C isn't a high-level programming language to the point that 'dothis' applies like I was asking?

[17:33]

<cr-tablet>

you don't combine two books into your research paper just cause make a reference to one of them

[17:34]

<cr-tablet>

the 'dothis' doesn't exist in any compiler

[17:34]

<cr-tablet>

it comes from provided libraries

[17:34]

<cr-tablet>

if/while/then/ that stuff are structures

[17:34]

<cr-tablet>

not code

[17:34]

OK

[17:35]

<cr-tablet>

square() is a function in a library. The compiler reads it and says "its there, you can use it"

[17:35]

<cr-tablet>

while/for/if-then those are english representations in the language

[17:35]

<cr-tablet>

they don't exist in machine code

[17:35]

<cr-tablet>

you can build them

[17:36]

<cr-tablet>

but no. an x86 compiler doesn't copy parts of itself into your binary

[17:36]

<cr-tablet>

is the jist

[17:36]

<cr-tablet>

it takes your source, and builds it into something x86 understands

[17:37]

<cr-tablet>

sure, it can optimize and all that kind of stuff

[17:37]

OK, so any higher-level stuff is actually in calls to libraries, not in C itself.

[17:37]

<cr-tablet>

yeah

[17:37]

<cr-tablet>

thats why you include stdlib.h

[17:37]

<cr-tablet>

stdio.h

[17:37]

Cheers for the lesson!

[17:37]

<cr-tablet>

but output of gcc is a different license than the source code of gcc

[17:38]

<cr-tablet>

gpl is to stop you from taking gcc, modifying it, adding features etc, then selling it as your own

[17:39]

<cr-tablet>

without providing source

[17:39]

<cr-tablet>

you can do the above, if you also provide the source

[17:39]

<cr-tablet>

if a compilers licensed their output, nobody would want to use it

[17:40]

<cr-tablet>

gpl or not

[17:40]

<cr-tablet>

or course, rms would love it if everything compiled with gcc was forced to be gpl/opensource

[17:40]

I am told the license for visual studio is a little worrying in that regard %)

[17:41]

<cr-tablet>

but then commercial companies and people wouldn't use it

[17:41]

<cr-tablet>

theolodian: yes, it is

[17:41]

<cr-tablet>

but even so, MS still can't up and demand your source code

[17:41]

Yeah, translation is not original work therefore no copyright

[17:42]

<cr-tablet>

time to go

[17:42]

<cr-tablet>

bbl

[17:42]

cheers again!

[17:45]

once again, too slow :(

[17:46]

Any more news on .61? Want PAL back sometime.

hi

* chreekat waves

howdy

Anyone want coffee? (I wish that I could contribute somehow!)

[18:16]