Log from #neuros IRC channel

well, anyway, i was just saying i couldn't have done anything in that regard. speaking of PAL, i have no means to test it quickly. both my monitor and my tv-tuner card seem to do automatic PAL/NTSC switch, but the OSD i think auto-detects it, and it detects it as NTSC. so i have to write a program that do the switch manually on the OSD side, but not now

[04:09]

Hmm

[04:09]

It's in the 63 fix

[04:10]

Hotkey support to properly switch NTSC/PAL output.

[04:10]

Mine defaults as NTSC

[04:10]

I have to connect up everything and see

[04:12]

I want to flash on the new firmware but what's the command for booting from ram again?

[04:12]

*flash

[04:12]

cool ,but... which hotkey ?

[04:13]

The one on the top right corner of the remote

[04:13]

*left

[04:13]

* AsGF2MX thinks today is truly opposite day

[04:18]

on my remote i think that freezes the remote and you need to reprogram it

[04:18]

Hmm

[04:18]

unless i'm mistaking it for some other key near it

[04:18]

maybe you have a later version with the right remote

[04:19]

i remember being some differences in these

[04:19]

I'll test it in a sec but I can't for the lifeofme remember how to boot from RAM

[04:19]

Mine's a gamma so perhaps it's different

on uboot

bootm doesn't work

yes

you say "set bootcmd cramfs_boot"

[04:22]

then boot

[04:23]

er, sorry. "set bootcmd run cramfs_boot"

[04:23]

That was it

[04:23]

I missed the word boot at the end

[04:23]

and also the run

[04:24]

Also my big ext3 disk yesterday showed the same problems...can see folder but can't get in

[04:25]

PAL is working for me

[04:25]

theolodian: That's great

[04:25]

says the input is NTSC when it's PAL, but set it to PAL anyway

[04:26]

Oh

[04:26]

It's flashing now, if it could just access my ext3 disk then I'd be good to go for the moment

[04:28]

theolodian: What quality did you try recording at if at all?

[04:28]

fine and superfine

[04:29]

ASF not so good, MP4 is fine

[04:29]

Strange

[04:29]

ASF loses audio sync

[04:29]

What do you use to play the MP4 back on your PC?

[04:29]

haven't tried playback on the laptop. MP4 doesn't play in WMP

[04:29]

I never managed to get them to play. Even using VLC

[04:30]

Tried to download VideoLan, bet ever since IE7 my laptop corrupts downloads, even though I am using Mozilla

[04:30]

Corrupts?

[04:30]

pics, pages, and dowloaded files

[04:30]

Sure it isn't to do with your connection settings?

[04:31]

was fine until IE7

[04:31]

installed as an update3

[04:31]

Me too

[04:32]

But the update was smooth

[04:32]

so you guys installed IE7 and it fucked up stuff completely unrelated to the browser ?

[04:32]

not for me

[04:33]

system is fine, other than any pages, pics, files accessed through browser

[04:33]

maybe software firewall?

[04:33]

Hmm

[04:33]

I'm thinking MTUs

[04:33]

I;m gonna have to rebuild XP again :(

[04:34]

theolodian: Perhaps not...grab one of those internet tweaking programs

[04:34]

Oh boy

[04:34]

it's booting

[04:35]

can you walk me through that sometime? (not now)

[04:36]

theolodian: I'll see if I can but I'm just guessing at the moment

[04:36]

I'm going to go and have breakfast...be back in a few

[04:36]

I'm off too

[04:48]

back

[04:49]

theolodian: The hotkey registers but doesn't seem to change the output

[04:49]

how'd you do it?

[04:52]

nerochiaro: Does it work for you?

[04:53]

after you press the hotkey, the other keys still work ?

Other?

Yes

It just rebooted

If it gets into PAL mode

That would be sweet

But it isn't in PAL

let me try

It just switched

But under record

I can't select 640x512

[05:00]

ntsc/pal button doesn't do anything for me

[05:01]

If there's no video in

[05:01]

it doesn't do anything

[05:01]

but if there's a video in it works

[05:01]

Now if I could just set the correct resolution for pal

[05:02]

I got it set....now if it could just read my EXT3 disk

[05:05]

nerochiaro: When creating folders for access by OSD

[05:06]

Does it have to be root?

[05:06]

creating folders on media cards ? no

[05:07]

What's the default user/perm

[05:09]

wait. you're creating folders from the OSD on a media card that is ext3 formatted ?

[05:10]

then yes, they will be created as root, since you're running as root

[05:10]

The thing is I have some folders right now on the disk that are marked as my username and group

[05:11]

they will work

[05:11]

It doesn't matter if it's root just so long as it writes...

[05:11]

let me test

[05:16]

Seems to work

[05:16]

But I can't get the right resolution

[05:25]

Funny thing is it can't see the files it itself created

[05:34]

nerochiaro: ?

[05:34]

what ?

[05:35]

How did you get the resolution to switch?

[05:36]

I cannot get it to switch fro 6??x448 to 640x512 so I'm experiencing some cropping

[05:37]

can't help you much there, i'm afraid. recording and video formats are an area where i didn't have much time to look into so far

[05:37]

I managed to get it to switch once

[05:37]

But I can't repeat it

[05:37]

but you mean it's not selectable in the GUI ?

[05:38]

It's not updating to the PAL list

[05:38]

It's still listing NTSC resolutions

[05:40]

let me recap here. you switched pal/ntsc with hotkey, then it records as pal, but you still only select ntsc resolutions ?

[05:40]

No

[05:41]

Output is PAL but input is stuck on NTSC

[05:41]

So I'm seeing image rescaled and record options only list NTSC resolutions

[05:44]

I should be seeing 320x256 or 640x512

[05:44]

Instead I see 320x240

[05:44]

672x448

[05:44]

The minimum and maximum respectively...something's not switching properly

[05:46]

definitely not. right now i can't put an eye on this, i'm writing a long and convoluted email and trying to properly upgrade my osd at the same time. i hope i'll be able to look at that later

[05:47]

No problem, if this doesn't work today, I'm going to have to go and grab a TV tuner of sorts of the get the job done.

[05:48]

But if I find a way, I'll make sure I let you know

[05:50]

it might be worth posting in ML, or bugzilla. really this is an issue that should be fixed. even if you find a way to hack around this, it's not something that should be in a final consumer product

[05:51]

You're right but having a suspect OSD to begin with and theolodian claiming he has it working, I don't want to send anyone on a wild goose chase of sorts

[06:00]

ah, yeah, i keep forgetting your osd might be faulty

[06:01]

hey JoeBorn, back to the US ?

[06:01]

I reproduced it

[06:02]

I figured out how to get the PAL resolutions

[06:02]

yep, I'm back

[06:02]

still jet-lagged ?

[06:03]

well, not really. I have a great system for jetlag

[06:03]

red bull ?

[06:03]

and I'm lucky that I have no biological clock.

[06:03]

haha, not exactly.

[06:04]

Basically I just stay up, and go to bed early the first night.

[06:04]

you're lucky indeed

[06:04]

8:30pm last night and then I get up real early the next day, but I'm pretty much on schedule

[06:04]

I can pretty much sleep at will, I'm good at sleeping :)

[06:05]

That's nice, how was your trip?

[06:10]

Was it something I said?

[06:12]

AsGF2MX: c'mon, people drop in and off conversations all the time in irc ;). phone calls, the cake in the oven, people at the door ...

[06:13]

oh nice, i'll probably be at able to make it to the meeting today

[06:13]

nerochiaro: I'm guilty of that too just that I put in a new router yesterday and I'm still testing it out...last night I had a fair few times when people were chatting to me then went quiet -- connection problem.

[06:14]

AsGF2MX: i see

[06:40]

sorry, checking on cake in oven

[06:45]

I'm making a long recording by the looks of it. Just hope it works well...

[06:46]

Speaking of cakes its almost lunch time here.

[06:47]

I'm going to have to be away again

[07:20]

hi all

[08:52]

As: I just set PAL under Settings/Regional

[08:53]

I can't find the resolution settings?

[08:56]

Is there a way to do widescreen on the OSD, or a player for XP/Mac that will play it as widescreen?

[09:07]

* theolodian is just talking to himself . . . :)

[09:11]

theolodian

[09:11]

theolodian: If you choose custom you can set the resolution

[09:12]

As for playing as widescreen, you can't really cleanly scale 4:3 to 16:9 without losing some of the image

[09:13]

The OSD is recording away at the moment, so far so good unfortunately I have to finish up something so I'll be back in a bit in time for the meeting

[09:16]

Record and playback is fine to the tv, but comes out 4:3 on laptop. Would prefer to see it in 16:9 on laptop

[09:35]

sorry all, I'll be a few minutes late for the meeting today

[09:35]

you're here now!

[09:41]

theolodian: Do you mean that you managed to record a 16:9 source and play it back in 16:9 format?

[09:42]

yes

[09:42]

theolodian: It would help if you can get the resolution of the recorded media

[09:43]

I mean the resolution as stated in the file properties

[09:43]

I am sure that as far as the OSD knows it is 4:3

night all

i gtg sleep

night daurnimator

theolodian: if the file is 4:3, there's no way to get 16:9 on the PC without cropping the picture or zooming in. You can however have it letterboxed

[09:46]

As: can't find res in file properties

[09:46]

What are you using for playback?

[09:46]

Window can't just be stretched?

[09:46]

You can stretch it

[09:47]

Was using WMP

[09:47]

But the image will still be 4:3

[09:47]

<Ycros>

oh yeah

[09:47]

<Ycros>

meeting

[09:47]

auto stretched to 16:9?

[09:47]

you want that kind of stretch

[09:47]

Hmm

[09:47]

I think VLC can do that

[09:47]

looks fine on the tv stretched

[09:48]

yeah, I'll need to fire up the mac to download VLC

[09:48]

Heh

[09:48]

also see if mac will stretch

[09:48]

Well

[09:48]

There's VLC for OSX

[09:49]

need it to download XP version thnx to POS IE7

[09:50]

It's like having to have 2 cars b/c your main one is a Lada %)

[09:50]

True

[09:51]

Since you have a Mac

[09:51]

I'm not sure but can you actually access XP shares? If so, test if sharing files on the network works

[09:51]

if it doesn't, then IE definitely messed with some connection settings

[09:59]

<swoag>

hi, all

[10:00]

<swoag>

am I talking to anyone here? ;-)

[10:00]

I am here

[10:01]

JoeBorn said he'd be a few minutes late

[10:01]

<swoag>

well, guess I'll just start from a brief status update...

[10:02]

hey swoag, just got in from the market

[10:02]

Go for it

[10:02]

<swoag>

other than stuff that's been covered in 0.63 release note, team is still fixing various GUI bugs.

[10:03]

<swoag>

hi, nero

[10:03]

<swoag>

as you may know, all driver, cooler, main-app, nmsd build warnings have been cleaned up.

[10:04]

<Ycros>

excellent

[10:04]

I guess I should start digging into that soon

[10:04]

swoag: has -Werror been turned on to prevent this from happening again ?

[10:04]

<swoag>

recording till storage is full bug is fixed (due to too small a reserved diskspace before auto-stop)

[10:04]

<swoag>

nero: -Wall -Werror, yes.

[10:05]

<swoag>

fast-forward/rewind is working properly.

[10:06]

<swoag>

Track change is fixed for normal operations (well, I just discovered some boundary bug there).

[10:06]

<Ycros>

-pedantic? :P

[10:06]

swoag: i'm noticing that the MSP430 press/release update is not working correctly. at least with my remote

[10:06]

<swoag>

scheduled recording is working.

[10:06]

oh, sorry. i'll tell that later

[10:07]

<swoag>

new features:

[10:07]

nerochiaro: Press release seems to work for me

[10:08]

<swoag>

- file based bookmark is working (you can set a bookmark and unplug the disk, later to restore the playback from bookmarked point)

[10:08]

AsGF2MX: let's get swoag to finish, then we'll see

[10:08]

sure

[10:08]

swoag: good feature

[10:09]

<swoag>

- preset button is working, you can hold preset button (a,b,c,d) during playback to set a preset, and any time later to click preset button to start the playback from where it stopped.

[10:10]

<swoag>

well, for those who are using the gamma remote, preset button is not working as you may know. :-(

[10:10]

swoag: neither is ntsc/pal

[10:10]

swoag: I haven't tested it yet

[10:10]

nerochiaro: hold on

[10:10]

AsGF2MX: ntsc/pal button, i mean

[10:10]

<swoag>

yep, sorry. :-(

[10:10]

actually it does work

[10:11]

On my unit it does

[10:11]

well, that's understandable

[10:11]

But only if and if you have an input connected

[10:11]

no input, doesn't matter what you press, stuck on NTSC

[10:11]

As: VLC will stretch it. Cool!

[10:12]

I also found that in order to get the PAL resolutions, I had turn on the input while waiting at the record options screen. Then it detected correctly and started to show the PAL resolutions

[10:12]

<swoag>

that is about it, and

[10:12]

theolodian: you're welcome

[10:13]

<swoag>

new Samba search algorithm is being implemented, hopefully will get included in next release too.

[10:13]

As: mine is recording PAL as 640:480

[10:13]

looks just fine tho'

[10:13]

swoag: 640x512, all nice here :)...let's let swoag finish first

[10:13]

<swoag>

speaking of the MSP430, there is a pitfall for those who are used to emergency upgrade.

[10:14]

<swoag>

emergency upgrade will not upgrade the MSP430 code, thus if you emergency upgrade to latest trunk,

[10:15]

<swoag>

you may end up with a non-functional main-app if you still using 3.27 and lower version.

[10:15]

swoag: i've managed to work past that by downgrading and re-upgrading via GUI. i'm worried about my remote and msp press/release. it really doesn't seem to work properly in 0.63 (didn't try trunk)

[10:15]

basically even if i hold, it shoots the key press and then immediately shoots release (00)

[10:16]

<swoag>

nero: did you mean that you can not consistently get the UP key or what?

[10:16]

swoag: no, i always get the UP. but it always comes immediately after the DOWN, even if i hold the key for long

[10:16]

<swoag>

nero: for that I just fired a bug on it. I am not sure what is the root cause yet.

[10:17]

<swoag>

nero: if you use the latest trunk as of today, hold basically works but sometime you got only one DOWN or none, as I specified in the bug report.

[10:18]

swoag: Is this a bug on all the devices? If I hold a button down, after like 1 second it starts repeating properly

[10:19]

<swoag>

AsGF2MX: it is supposed to repeat after about 2 seconds, but sometime it just refuses to repeat, should be an easy one to fix.

[10:20]

<swoag>

For NTSC/PAL support, a new bug was found this afternoon,

[10:20]

swoag: i'll try trunk in a moment

[10:20]

swoag: I see but I'm having trouble getting it not to repeat but I do see the occassional retrying count

[10:21]

<swoag>

if you reboot OSD with PAL video input connected, video monitor (video with GUI overlay) will not work properly, it looks

[10:21]

swoag: this is what I tried to mention to you earlier

[10:21]

<swoag>

like being stretched or shinked, this is mostly like because

[10:21]

<swoag>

OSD always defaults to NTSC when starting up, this will be fixed in following formal release,

[10:22]

<swoag>

before that, you need to unplug the PAL input, wait a second or so, then plug it back in.

[10:22]

But I did manage to perform some recordings from a PAL source at 640x512 successfully just now

[10:22]

swoag: when I do that it doesn't list the PAL resolutions in the recording options

[10:23]

In order to get the PAL resolution I need to do it while in the recording menu...perhaps this is a non related gui bug?

[10:23]

<swoag>

AsGF2MX: did you mean that even when setting vido input as PAL in Settings->Regional, you don't see 640x512 as an option?

[10:24]

Yes, I only see that as an option IF I turn on the input while I am at the recording menu

[10:25]

<swoag>

AsGF2MX: ok, can you help submit a bug on what you are seeing?

[10:25]

swoag: Sure

[10:26]

<swoag>

AsGF2MX: thanks.

[10:27]

<swoag>

now, shall we move to communtiy projects? anyone has any update?

[10:27]

* swoag left his notebook in the office and now scratches his head to try figuring out what projects are being active...

[10:28]

Maybe you should have a look at the new wiki page ;)

[10:28]

* swoag is looking...

[10:29]

wiki.neurostechnology.com

[10:30]

<swoag>

damn a lot of stuff going on, any news?

[10:31]

As: VLC locks up where I paused recording. OSD continues fine.

[10:31]

<swoag>

is crweb available to talk about the new Network init system? is it working now?

[10:31]

theolodian: that's a little strange

[10:32]

swoag: as you know i'm working on enlightenment at the moment. i've got a quick demo app ready, might show up a little screen shot or a video in a little

[10:32]

As: It also doesn't FF or RW.

[10:32]

VLC that is

[10:32]

<swoag>

JoeBorn: you missed the big part, we just figured a new feature for OSD to light a cigarette automatically for you.

[10:32]

JoeBorn: cigars too

[10:32]

overclock the cpu to 1GHZ?

[10:33]

* AsGF2MX watches has JoeBorn's house gets lit by the OSD

[10:33]

<swoag>

nero: is the demo available now?

[10:33]

theolodian: perhaps the file didn't get finalized properly

[10:34]

swoag: yes, still a bit crappy though. it's not the "gut out cooler and replace it" project though

[10:35]

As: Same thing with QT

[10:36]

swoag: it's "just" a simple media player that shows some e17 gui and uses nmsd to play stuff

[10:36]

theolodian: Sounds like the file didn't get finalized properly :s

[10:36]

<swoag>

understood, however it is the right time to _really_ dig into different GUI toolkit, as I am thinking to move toward to a win-manager for Nano-X (actually Nano-X ships with a sample one),

[10:36]

swoag: they are two different topics though

[10:36]

<swoag>

it will be a waste of effort if we decide to ditch Nano-X.

[10:36]

swoag: WM and toolkit are separate

[10:36]

As: I guess I'll do a bugzilla. Gotta go.

[10:37]

swoag: apps that use nano-x as a window manager have to be written in nano-x, right ?

[10:37]

theolodian: Sure

[10:37]

<swoag>

yes.

[10:38]

At the bottom of it all, is Nano-x present? Even in crweb's enviroment?

[10:38]

<swoag>

and without a WM, it is not easy (if possible at all) for a 3rd party GUI app.

[10:38]

swoag: in general any window manager for an embedded system (i.e. a wm that does not use X) needs you to write software for it

[10:39]

swoag: since we don't have X, we just need to pick one, and then anyone who doesn't want to write stand-alone software needs to change their apps to conform to it

[10:39]

swoag: at least, that's my understanding

[10:40]

<swoag>

hmmm, not sure I am following you, but here is what I think,

[10:41]

<swoag>

WM is needed for standalone GUI app (those who have their own main() routine), WM will take care of focus management, app switching, rerouting events etc,

[10:41]

ok so far

[10:42]

<swoag>

basically WM is just another piece of app that captures all events and treats all apps as its children.

[10:42]

<swoag>

*all other apps.

[10:42]

I guess that's agreeable

[10:42]

swoag: yes, and for that reason all other apps must conform to WM specification

[10:42]

<swoag>

ya

[10:43]

<swoag>

WM does all the window decoration stuff.

[10:43]

swoag: and gives apps a piece of the screen where they should draw themselves

[10:44]

<swoag>

Nano-X ships with a demo WM and the basic logic is there, I am thinking to reuse that and tailor it to mouseless friendly.

[10:44]

<swoag>

nero: yes, correct.

[10:45]

swoag: but all apps need to link to nano-x and adapt their drawing logic to match nano-x

[10:45]

swoag: i'm ok with that, i'm not saying it's bad. just wondering if there are alternatives

[10:46]

<swoag>

yes. that is why I think now is the right time to dig further into other GUI tookit to determine it is worth the effort to go further with Nano-X or not.

[10:46]

How well does Nano-X scale?

[10:47]

<swoag>

in reality, it is already a little bit too late, I'd say.

[10:48]

swoag: i need to ask you a question about nano-x before going formward

[10:48]

<swoag>

but still doable, if other better alternative is working, we can create a brach to start to merge/integrate the main-app.

[10:48]

<swoag>

if WM starts to working which also means some significant changes to cooler (not 100% sure yet),

[10:49]

swoag: question is: once i get a "piece of screen" from nano-x... can i draw over that in any way I please ? or do i need to use nano-x API to do all the drawing on that ?

[10:49]

<swoag>

it might be too much of a waste.

[10:51]

That's a good question

[10:51]

<swoag>

nero: you can draw over that in any way you want, I suppose. Nano-X does not keep screen buffers, it directly draws to framebuffer (or whatever display buffer), that is at least my current understanding.

[10:51]

<swoag>

when Nano-X tells you to redraw of course.

[10:52]

<swoag>

AfGF2MX: what do you specifically mean by 'scale'?

[10:52]

* swoag feels finger crooking when typing mix-cased screen name. ;-)

[10:53]

swoag: i'm not sure it works like that, how would it handle clipping, when two widows overlap ?

[10:53]

For future use, do you think more products can make use of the work done on nano-x?

[10:53]

* nerochiaro suggests swoag to use an irc client tha does auto-complete

[10:54]

* swoag tris the TAB, hmmm, it works. damn...

[