Log from #neuros IRC channel

when I try to mount an NFS export on the OSD it locks up the OSD. I thought I was able to do this before. Anyone know if there are special options needed: mount -t nfs x.x.x.x:/remote_path /osd_patt ???

[02:24]

sourcerror: try -o ro,nolock,tcp,nfsvers=3

[02:26]

nice, I'll try that. My eyes were glazing over as I was reading all the options just now for NFS :)

[02:27]

sourcerror: took everyone a while to fin the right set of options

[02:27]

yep, and it works still ;) cool.

[02:28]

cool. i think it should be plastered somewhere on the wiki, but i have no idea where

[02:29]

should we have a troubleshooting section on the developer, or is this outside the scope?

[02:29]

JoeBorn: this is also for users

[02:29]

JoeBorn: power users, that know how to use the command line, but still users

[02:29]

it is?!?

[02:29]

booting thtrough NFS?

[02:30]

JoeBorn: no, not booting. just mounting an NFS share

[02:30]

oh, I see.

[02:30]

JoeBorn: yea I was just mounting the share (not for booting)

[02:30]

oh, I see.

[02:30]

;9

[02:31]

* nerochiaro goes have some tea, he can't even type smileys

[02:33]

you shouldn't have said anything, I just assumed that was a fancy smiley with a toung sticking out or something

[02:36]

JoeBorn: i'm the fancy smiley type

er, i'm not

=~o~=

a satellite ?

natetrue!

how's the gearlive stuff going?

[02:39]

I have you on my to-do list to talk to about multiple things

[02:39]

super

[02:39]

i know, i somehow keep missing you

[02:39]

also i've been busy lately

[02:39]

new software rollouts at the office

[02:40]

the =~o~= is supposed to be a yawning kitten

[02:41]

kind of a stretch

[02:41]

heh, a bit. i have live cats here yawning all the time, and they shook their head when they saw that

[02:42]

yeah, live cat yawning has more tongue

[02:42]

and more teeth

[02:42]

i try to yawn like that

[02:42]

and more bad breath

[02:42]

but no one ever notices that it looks like cat

[02:42]

and they sure don't thank me for it

[02:42]

yawning like a cat is liberatory

natetrue: use �?

?

=~�~=

see now that's just confusing

[02:48]

i've got some sleeping to do, it's late

have a nice rest

night, nate

evenin JoeBorn

hi daurnimator

hows life etc

welcome jtootf !

life, we'll I'm living in a van down by the river if that's any indication

[03:55]

with a large jug of wood alchool always at hand, if you need more indications ;)

[04:37]

jtootf: by the way, i think i understand now what you meant when you said that the cooler widget API is not as easy to use as it could be

[07:04]

<Dark_Aurel>

Yeah, the trouble was nothing: some crazy man changed nfs_root to r/o export in /etc/export

[07:30]

hi folks

[07:31]

crweb: I dont know what you done with the last firmware update... but my NAS box is being detected and mounted :)

[07:31]

the one I had all the probs with

[07:34]

you probably have to thank the neuros folks for that :)

[07:35]

thot crweb was working on the samba stuff?

[07:36]

works a treat anyway. thanks to whoever it was

[07:36]

i'm just saying maybe the change came from neuros instead, i'm not sure

[07:36]

well, anyway, glad you got it fixed

[07:36]

has the custom loadup script been added yet?

[07:37]

what is that ?

[07:37]

so you can add your own commands to run at startup

[07:37]

i.e to manully mount things etc

[07:38]

ah. not sure

[07:40]

Milesy2: /tmp/media/OSD/rc.user << if this exists it will run it

[07:40]

and only if you use runlevel 3 and 5

[07:40]

5 is the default

[07:42]

thanks :)

[07:43]

not able to try out some files yet, but how is avi playback now? any improvements?

[07:43]

ops, /mnt/OSD/rc.user

[07:43]

didn't check much, sorry

[07:56]

hmm, that script doesn't seem to actually work, though

[07:57]

hehe

[07:58]

todo: got to check on that

[09:02]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: already submited patch

[09:03]

crweb: for the script ?

[09:03]

<crweb>

yeah

[09:04]

one question though. if it runs from the extrasetup script, you won't be able to set env vars from there, right ?

[09:04]

<crweb>

you have to export them

[09:04]

<crweb>

but it runs from /etc/init.d/rc

[09:05]

the one i saw was from the extrasetup

[09:05]

<crweb>

extrasetup is nothing but loading closed modules

[09:05]

<crweb>

and was suppose to be named neuros-media-codecs

[09:07]

<crweb>

ah, its in mainsetup

[09:07]

<crweb>

the filepath has changed I think

[09:07]

<crweb>

it shouldn't be there anyway

[09:07]

ah, yes mainsetup not extrasetup. i thought i was going mad

[09:08]

<crweb>

it needs to e the last thing executed

[09:08]

so you put it at the end of init.d/rc

[09:08]

<crweb>

yes

[09:09]

<crweb>

they failed to grasp the concept of init

[09:09]

ok. and what about exporting vars from scripts ? doesn't that only work from cmd line ? when you need to set an env var from a script don't you ned to source the script ?

[09:09]

<crweb>

still putting everything in main setup instead of doing services

[09:09]

<crweb>

DEV="/mnt/Dev" on cmdline

[09:10]

<crweb>

export DEV="/mnt/Dev" in script

[09:10]

DEV="foo" ; export FOO in script, if you need it permanent

[09:10]

er, export DEV

[09:10]

<crweb>

same thing

[09:10]

and dammit me, i mean "in command line"

[09:11]

where's my head today ?

[09:11]

if you do just VAR="foo" on cmd line that doesn't make it permanent

[09:11]

<crweb>

makes it perm for that session.

[09:11]

<crweb>

right?

[09:12]

<crweb>

anyway, file/cmdline is the same.

[09:14]

crweb: hmm, if i do a script with export XXX="foo" in it, then run it, then call set, i don't see the variable XXX in there

[09:17]

<crweb>

did I ever mention that I hate bash?

[09:17]

heh, i'm learning to deal with it peacefully

[09:21]

<crweb>

ah

[09:21]

bash is beautiful

[09:21]

<crweb>

you do have to source it

[09:21]

<crweb>

bash scripts are run in a new process id, and can't touch the running pid

[09:22]

chreekat: i respectfully disagree

[09:22]

chreekat: but it's basically everywhere, so there's no way around it

[09:22]

* crweb disrespectfully disagrees

[09:23]

crweb: with who ?

[09:23]

nerochiaro: I used to think it was 'nice' until I went to modify some absolutely beautifully-written bash scripts

[09:23]

<crweb>

chreekat:

[09:24]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: exports only work for child processes

[09:24]

<crweb>

Exported variables

[09:24]

<crweb>

are seen by all processes created by that script

[09:24]

chreekat: i actually thing it's "ugly", but still

[09:25]

How do you guys feel about Perl? Because I really like it, too, and it seems that most people would either like both or dislike both

[09:25]

crweb: which means that we can't still set vars env from init scripts ?

[09:25]

chreekat: i don't like it much either, but had not much close contact with it

[09:26]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: you have to source the script, which is why /etc/profile exists

[09:26]

chreekat: but the "hate both" thing comes from the fact both look and feel like a mismatched patchwork

[09:26]

<crweb>

i like perl

[09:27]

<crweb>

bash is super crazy dumb about spacing, white space, etc

[09:27]

crweb: ok, but users can't touch it, right ? unless we make /etc/profile source in turn something else that is user-writable

[09:27]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: we could source /mnt/OSD/rc.user

[09:28]

crweb: go ahead, whatever allows people to setup some env vars.

[09:28]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: or maybe source /mnt/OSD/.bash_profile

[09:28]

<crweb>

that would be better

[09:28]

more standard, no ?

[09:28]

"standard" would be ~/.bash_profile

[09:29]

chreekat: which is ro

[09:29]

<crweb>

chreekat, that would be a desktop standard

[09:29]

but we can make that a symlink

[09:29]

<crweb>

we have to put things where they can be rw

[09:29]

understood

[09:29]

symlinks ? no ?

[09:29]

<crweb>

I really don't like the symlink thing

[09:29]

<crweb>

but yes

[09:30]

ok, fine. whatever works best for you

[09:30]

Either a symlink or actually sourcing a r/w file from the ro file

[09:30]

<crweb>

true

[09:31]

Hm, I really shouldn't have jumped into the middle of this conversation... I'm supposed to be getting ready for work anyway

[09:31]

<crweb>

if profile existed to begin with

[09:37]

then probably better to source it if it exists

[10:19]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: terry just updated the rc.user script thing. but got it wrong again

[10:19]

what happened this time ?

[10:19]

<crweb>

wrong path

[10:20]

<crweb>

he's still using the pre 0.34 path

[10:20]

beat him with a clue stick

[10:20]

<crweb>

its midnight there, so it'll be 12+ hours before they review my patches

[10:21]

<crweb>

if you want to test them, they are on the ML

[10:21]

<crweb>

and did you see the updating the M430 hack?

[10:21]

don't see them yet. just the one about the image

[10:21]

no, didn't see that too

[10:22]

<crweb>

I'm going to put a ban on adding things to the end of /etc/init.d/mainsetup

[10:22]

<crweb>

#check flag if need upgrade msp430

[10:22]

<crweb>

if [ -x /sbin/430upk ]; then

[10:22]

<crweb>

if [ -x /sbin/ubootcmd ]; then

[10:22]

<crweb>

/sbin/ubootcmd up

[10:22]

<crweb>

fi

[10:22]

<crweb>

fi

[10:23]

<crweb>

i have one problem with this script..

[10:23]

<crweb>

the file system is read only

[10:23]

<crweb>

when booting this firmware version that "as the update"

[10:23]

<crweb>

/sbin/430upk will always exist

[10:23]

<crweb>

and will always /sbin/ubootcmd up

[10:23]

<crweb>

"has the update"

[10:24]

<crweb>

the put that at the end of mainsetup

[10:24]

<crweb>

damn keys. they

[10:26]

well, first off the msp update should not really happen there, if you ask me. it's a delicate operation that should happen during the update at uboot time

[10:26]

with a huge "do not unplug power" warning

[10:26]

if it happens during main setup people think it's safe to unplug

[10:27]

at least i would

[10:27]

<crweb>

well, even if it failed, it can be reflashed next boot

[10:28]

gao said the msp updates contain both the upgrade logic and the upgrade data itself. if something gets screwed and the update logic part doesn't get written correctly, you can't update any more

[10:28]

i don't have specifics

[10:28]

but he stressed the fact that msp update is fragile and should be done

[10:28]

less frequently as possible

[10:28]

<crweb>

well then, i'd say this is a pretty big risk

[10:29]

yeah, need to check with him on this. maybe someone did it "behind his back" so to speak

[10:29]

or maybe no, but still

[10:29]

i don't like that

[10:33]

<crweb>

do you know what securetty is?

[10:33]

<crweb>

/etc/securetty ?

[10:34]

<crweb>

list of terminals on which root is allowed to login.

[10:34]

<crweb>

I think maybe your X problem with tty could be solved with adding tty0 to that

[10:35]

<crweb>

maybe, maybe not

[10:39]

i think the problem is the fact that /dev/tty0 doesn't really exist.

[10:40]

there seems to be nothing underneath that char device to back it up

[10:40]

at least the "no device" error message seems to suggest that

[10:40]

<crweb>

well.. they are pretend..

[10:40]

why pretend ?

[10:41]

<crweb>

they don't really exist to begin with..

[10:41]

so why creating the nodes in the first place ?

[10:41]

<crweb>

well, the kernel provides them

[10:41]

<crweb>

somehow..

[10:41]

i'd say better nothing than a fake that doesn't work

[10:41]

<crweb>

i read a lot. and didn't gain any knowledge on the subject

[10:42]

it's a bit of a grey area for me too

[10:42]

<crweb>

not very many guides on, building a distro from the ground up

[10:42]

LFS maybe ?

[10:42]

<crweb>

even they have a tar/gz with initial setup

[10:42]

<crweb>

maybe the guide says something though. I'll give it a look

[10:43]

i think the tarballs are just for convenience. it should really be from scratch

[11:51]

<oznav>

Re all

[11:52]

<oznav>

i am a total newbie....with the neuros...and need some help from you guys....

[11:52]

k :)

[11:53]

<oznav>

10x...

[11:54]

<oznav>

i need to get started with the new neuros osd i just got

[11:54]

<oznav>

i am an israeli ...and the majority of my files are in hebrew...

[11:55]

<oznav>

i will defintiley look into the possibility of "playing" around with firmware so as to enable it to work with an OSD in hebrew as well

[11:55]

<oznav>

as adding it the ability to recognize hebrew fonts

[11:55]

ah

[11:55]

<oznav>

any idea ....where and how to start

[11:55]

I think someone else is working on fonts as well

[11:55]

<oznav>

?

[11:55]

Are you on the ML?

[11:56]

<oznav>

i am in israel

[11:56]

sorry, I mean mailing list

[11:56]

<oznav>

nop

[11:56]

<oznav>

heheh ...what lame of me ...

[11:56]

Ok. I wasn't paying attention really, but someone was discussing fonts

[11:56]

Might check out the archives

[11:56]

<oznav>

how do i get my self into the ML ?

[11:57]

it's a google group, Neuros-DM320Hardware@googlegroups.com

[11:58]

I'm still mostly on the periphery of all of this myself. Someone else will have better answers for you

[11:59]

<oznav>

thanks alot my freind...seems like a "deep" world to dive into...

[12:00]

yes indeed. :) Have you read the wiki much? Its url is in the channel topic

[12:02]

<oznav>

yes...i have looked at it in a glance...

[12:02]

<oznav>

quite a knowledgebase

[12:14]

chreekat: oznav: the guy "discussing" fonts in ML actually just posted a couple messages, and was already hard to understand what he said or wanted, given he spoke very bad english

[12:20]

Hm, what does it take to get changes to ~/.Xresources noticed? :-/

[13:33]

nggg my morale concerning my current job continues to plummet

[13:34]

* chreekat vents

[13:35]

depressing work ?

[13:36]

I'm not cut out for the corporate, silicon valley-type environment

[13:37]

you mean, a shark pool ?

[13:37]

More that business needs come before all else

[13:38]

even before employee mental health and well being. i know the type. sucks

[13:39]

* chreekat pines for mountains of homework and boring lectures

[13:39]

usually the money makes it worth, tough

[13:39]

There is that

[13:42]

Never been much a motivator for me though. In fact, the only reason it motivates me at all right now is that I have ~$17,000 debt from college

[13:43]

crap, that's a damn lot of money

[13:46]

Yeah

[13:46]

I went to Europe in autumn, and was thinking of going again in summer

[13:46]

you were the one with relatives in northern europe, right ?

[13:47]

But I think instead I will not spend any money at all. I think I could get to 5-7k by next autumn

[13:47]

yeha

[13:47]

maybe even further. hmm...

[13:47]

is that debt only part of what you paid in total to access univeristy ?

[13:48]

Yeah, I have already paid off some

[13:48]

I also entirely paid off the car I had to buy to commute to my job

[13:49]

school is quite expensive there. i can see why they always add "starving" to "college students"

[13:50]

yep, and I even had it easy. Because of my family's financial bracket, 2/3 of the cost was paid for by the government, no strings attached

[13:50]

how many years you did ?

[13:51]

5

[13:54]

well, seems in one year at most you'll be repaying these debts with that job you have

[13:55]

btw, better English would be "how many years did you do?". I only mention that because I'd want you to do the same to me if we were speaking Italian. :)

[13:55]

Yes, that is the plan now

[13:55]

thanks for the correction :)

[13:57]

is it mandatory to use capital letters on nationality adjectives ?

[13:57]

formally, yes

[13:57]

in irc it often gets dropped

[13:58]

I go back and forth myself

[13:58]

i always drop it, unless in very formal contexts

[13:58]

you mean in English? Or is it also "correct" in italian?

[13:58]

see there I go

[13:58]

heh

[13:59]

no, we use it always lowercase in italian

[13:59]

er, them

[13:59]

I bet it will be completely dropped eventually

[14:00]

all sorts of nouns used to be capitalized in proper English

[14:00]

like in german

[14:00]

yeah

[14:00]

frankly, i really hate to have to uppercase "I"

[14:01]

it's the most annoying thing in english for me, probably

[14:02]

heh

[14:02]

that's the one capitalization that I only skip when I'm in a *real* hurry

[14:02]

just muscle memory

[14:03]

i have lazy fingers :P

[14:03]

I do think it's pointless though

[14:03]

absolutely. unless you're really an ego-worshipper

[14:03]

the whole capitalization thing in general is kinda ridiculous. Well, it does help with visually separating sentences

[14:04]

it's also good for "proper" names

[14:04]

how so?

[14:05]

Not that I don't believe you, but I'm having trouble coming up with convincing arguments myself. :-P

[14:06]

you do have a point :)

[14:06]

actually it's probably more for historical reasons

[14:06]

<crweb>

shows respect

[14:06]

after all, we don't capitalize chreekat or nerochiaro

[14:07]

Yeah, that's probably what it is

[14:07]

chreekat: i actually lowercase the nickname on purpose when someone upcases it

[14:07]

<crweb>

those aren't real names

[14:07]

crweb: i won't mind having my actual name lowercased

[14:08]

"respect" is another thing entirely from an uppercase letter

[14:08]

It's still "correct" to capitalize *everything* related to God

[14:08]

<crweb>

its about respect

[14:08]

exactly

[14:08]

if you are a christian, yes

[14:10]

see, that's an useful use for capitalization, aside of respect. the word "god" can mean either a generic deity, or the christian God

[14:11]

any probability guys?

[14:11]

I can square a mean standard deviation

[14:11]

ssmasud: i play dice sometimes, does that count ? ;)

[14:11]

err that didn't come out right, mean has two meanings. /me gives up

[14:12]

chreekat: lol. english is terrible in that respect

[14:12]

chreekat: eek, even "respect" means more than one thing

[14:12]

haha

[14:13]

:)....i wanted to know that if AAAA, BBBB are two possibilities of winning a worls series game...then if i play 6 games..then how many possibilities of winning r there??

[14:13]

* nerochiaro has flashbacks of statistics classes back in high school and runs to have dinner. later!

[14:13]

haha

[14:14]

see ya

[14:14]

any body can tell me core probability forum?

[14:15]

ssmasud: You need a primer on basic probability, just google it

[14:15]

I don't mean that in a mean way