Log from #neuros IRC channel

i think Joe is quite convinced of that already and there was discussion of ditching cooler (nothing definitive, but talks of it). you should really read the logs of a couple day a ago

[10:21]

why so ? allergy to EM radiation ?

[10:21]

<crweb>

allergy to distractions taking all my time instead of programming and homework

[10:22]

<crweb>

it was pretty hard thing giving up tv and nintendo ds/wii

[10:23]

<crweb>

giving up irc is the hardest though. I'll read the logs.

[10:23]

you mean you sold them ?

[10:23]

<crweb>

no, took them home

[10:23]

<crweb>

put them in storage

[10:23]

ah, that would've been criminal otherwise

[10:23]

<crweb>

hah

[10:24]

<crweb>

Gao wanted an example that other toolkits can do what he wants.

[10:24]

<crweb>

so, instead of talking decided to show

[10:25]

<crweb>

and by doing so, the community will also have an alternative

[10:25]

we already have

[10:26]

that alternative, i mean

[10:26]

<crweb>

alternative to osdmain?

[10:26]

<crweb>

oh oh, i meant a whole alternative

[10:27]

eh, sorry, alternative in which sense then ?

[10:27]

<crweb>

as in, Neuros GUI, Crweb's GUI

[10:27]

<crweb>

for using the OSD, there are plenty of development alternatives (toolkits)

[10:28]

ah, ok

[10:29]

well, read these logs though. you will also surprisingly find me pimping QT

[10:29]

<crweb>

hah

[10:29]

<crweb>

I just started figuring out how to do styles and themes in qt

[10:29]

<crweb>

pretty nice

[10:30]

<crweb>

i haven't figured out style sheets, but themes are very easy

[10:30]

it's themeable to the point that you can even alter the shapes of basically everything or just colors, fonts and stuff ?

[10:30]

<crweb>

you can alter everything

[10:31]

<crweb>

you can control the painter

[10:31]

<crweb>

for each kind of object

[10:31]

that means basically you can do full custom paint routines ?

[10:31]

<crweb>

I'm attempting to make round edged buttons now

[10:32]

<crweb>

oh yes, you can physically modify the painter for any object

[10:32]

<crweb>

you could do it 2 ways, via a Qstyle, or via subclassing QPushButton

[10:32]

<crweb>

qt is designed to be subclassed

[10:33]

<crweb>

the base classes provide a basic functionality

[10:33]

well, being C++ that won't surprise me

[10:34]

<crweb>

if you want a feature that a button does do.. say a picture, text, and background

[10:34]

<crweb>

you subclass the button and add background drawing to the painter

[10:34]

<crweb>

( just an example, background drawing already exists)

ok

<crweb>

<crweb>

to make your own custom theme/style, you subclass QStyle

[10:35]

<crweb>

and just override the things you want to change

[10:37]

unless you also did the paint override, i imagine

[10:38]

<crweb>

functionality in your object will always override the style (by default)

[10:38]

<crweb>

so if you want your button to use styles, don't hard code colors and painting into the button

[10:38]

<crweb>

:)

[12:29]

<crweb>

This is actually a really nice web irc client. I haddn't ever used it

[12:57]

it's not bad eh ? but why you appear with a real IP,people with the web client usually have different ips

[12:58]

<crweb>

i'm not sure...

[12:59]

<crweb>

I have a full client. Multiple rooms everything

[12:59]

<crweb>

channels

[12:59]

the one that's linked from odnt, right ?

[12:59]

<crweb>

yeah

[12:59]

<crweb>

ah..

[13:00]

<crweb>

heh, opera intercepted my click and opened its own chat program

[13:00]

<crweb>

i've never actually used opera before..

[13:00]

that page has 2 links. one for the web chat and one for the actual irc:// link. you clicked the latter, it seems

[13:00]

<crweb>

its getting pretty neat. built in bittorrent, irc, mail..

[13:01]

<crweb>

hah, it fooled me

[13:01]

i need to check out opera, but it's QT based no ?

[13:01]

<crweb>

it is, but its static linked, you don't need qt to use it

[13:02]

<crweb>

it definitely shows off the capabilities of Qt

[13:02]

i need a new email client, thunderbird is annoying me. but i'm undecided if to try opera mail or go full web based and to hell with it

[13:03]

<crweb>

I like Evolution

[13:03]

<crweb>

well.. i haven't used evolution since gnome 2.6

[13:03]

oh god no, i've tried that for a while but it felt awful

[13:03]

<crweb>

it does a lot of things thunderbird won't

[13:04]

<crweb>

I need a good windows h264 codec

[13:05]

it's not i need tons of features, it's just that sometimes tbird seems to do weird things, like mysteriously failing to download some email messages or forgetting to update rss feeds. at least it does for me

[13:06]

you can't get opera mail without the whole opera, right ?

[13:11]

I'd love a complete solution for email and calendary

[13:11]

calendar

[13:11]

gave up on evolution

[13:11]

but I'm still flipping between linux and XP, and more on xp now that I have the vm option

[13:12]

i'm frankly pretty much using more gmail than anything else for my mail lately. as for calendar, it's tough

[13:15]

<crweb>

I got a Palm TX

[13:15]

<crweb>

other than that, for calender I use tablet xp pack

[13:16]

<crweb>

not that I use it.. but if I do

[13:16]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: i have no idea about opera mail. It seems to be a whole pack

[13:17]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: opera itself is just a little larger than firefox

[13:17]

it's not i'm strapped on space anyway, i'll give it a shot

[13:18]

<crweb>

yeah, they say its part of opera

[13:20]

<crweb>

doesn't appear to do ssl over imap

[13:20]

<crweb>

so I can't even test it

[13:23]

JoeBorn: gcalendar?

[13:23]

vmarks, yeah, looking at that

[13:23]

<crweb>

oh wait. I use kontact

[13:23]

I just got a blackberry, the IMAP sync is amazingly bad.

[13:23]

<crweb>

heh. For everything but mail

[13:24]

and it's funny that you have to dig to figure that out.

[13:24]

the awareness of IMAP is shockingly low, if you talk to people that have a need, they don't even realize its out there

[13:24]

it's exchange or POP to most people.

[13:24]

JoeBorn: I've gone and forwarded email to my gmail, and set my gmail to reply from the address it was originally sent to, so that I can use the gmail client wherever I am, phone as well, and that works reasonably fast.

[13:25]

<crweb>

I use all imap. I have my mail anywhere I go.

[13:25]

I've got imap, but it's damned slow. I have my server that does the imap for me also fwd to gmail so I can have it fast as well.

[13:25]

<crweb>

slow?

[13:26]

<crweb>

it can only be as fast as your internet connection..

[13:26]

what can I say? slow. could just be the ISP, but since that's the one I'm stuck with for hosting this mail, that's how I deal with it.

[13:26]

vmarks: that's pretty much what i'm doing now too. works reasonably well, although switching email "personalities" is clunkier than it needs to be

[13:26]

vmarks: the gmail thing, i mean

[13:27]

the gmail 'reply from the address it was sent to' is almost transparent. I don't even think about it, I just reply.

[13:27]

<crweb>

I haven't seen any general slowness. I mean if i'm on dialup its a little slow indexing and stuff

[13:27]

crweb: server's in england, I'm in the US on cable, what I know is, my particular server is slow.

[13:28]

could be anything between me and it.

[13:28]

<crweb>

that stinks. imap is awesome

[13:29]

<crweb>

except when you're not online and want to read mail

[13:29]

vmarks: i was talking about when i want to use a different name in the from field when sending emails out

[13:29]

it does stink. so I have it, and I have my gmail, and I can read them both.

[13:29]

<crweb>

but, i don't find myself with a pc, and not online very often

[13:29]

nerochiaro: hm.

[13:30]

mostly I use gmail so I can overcome the stupidity of things like blackberry and nokia.

[13:32]

<crweb>

i'm starting to like having irc, web, mail all in the same window/tabs

[13:32]

is that opera?

[13:32]

or some mozilla flavor?

[13:33]

<crweb>

opera in tabbed mode yes

[13:33]

<crweb>

bittorrent, mail, irc, web i mean

[13:36]

<crweb>

hah, quicktime saves me. it'll play h264 while windows media player won't

[13:36]

<crweb>

windows is starting to lose out on the media/codec side of technology

[13:37]

<crweb>

new codecs and formats are coming to linux way faster than windows/media player can support them

[13:37]

<crweb>

wmp still can't even play xvid/divx out of the box.

[13:41]

crweb, the offline on thunderbird works great for me.

[13:42]

remember I spend 20-30 waking hours a month on airplanes, offline email is a must have for me.

[13:42]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: i have every email from 1999 to current, I wouldn't know what to offline

[13:42]

thunderbird and IMAP syncing work great for me.

[13:43]

<crweb>

I might give it a try.

[13:43]

well i have that situation too, I keep old email in offline folders, and I keep 1GB on the server which is automatically made "offline" so to speak and kept in sync with IMAP

[13:43]

<crweb>

I see

[13:43]

<crweb>

that might just work better

[13:43]

so I read emails, delete, mark unread, reply everything I do online

[13:43]

then when I connect I sync and go

[13:45]

it sends the unsent, marks read, etc

[13:45]

I'm not sure how sophisticated the conflict management is, but I don't normally have to deal with that, or at least haven't yet.

[13:46]

* JoeyBorn dives back into OSD hacking with new vm image

[13:46]

<crweb>

do you use more than one pc for connecting to the imap? or always the same?

[13:46]

multiple PCs

[13:46]

<crweb>

so how do the pc's sync up?

[13:46]

<crweb>

with eachother i mean

[13:47]

well, they all just sync with IMAP

[13:47]

some are desktops that are always connected and I have no offline storage

[13:48]

<crweb>

ah ok

[13:48]

if you mean the old offline files, I manually keep those in sync.

[13:48]

once every few months, I archive and take stuff really offline so to speak and put those in the separate folders

[13:49]

then those separate folders I treat just like any other files, and basically treat them Read only between archiving

[13:50]

<crweb>

i see

[13:50]

<crweb>

I've never done the offline/online thing before. always seemed like a hassle. I have my imap folders so organized I haven't needed much syncing and stuff

[13:51]

but how big is your mail on the server?

[13:51]

I'd do it your way, but I have something like 5GB of mail

[13:53]

<crweb>

well, I do archive 2 of the mailing lists i'm on every year or so

[13:53]

<crweb>

qt, and linux kernel

[13:53]

<crweb>

if i didn't do that it would be about 8 gig

[13:53]

<crweb>

only 4 right now

[13:54]

<crweb>

I probably should delete some old stuff

[15:07]

<crweb>

wdl.lug.ro

[16:06]

is there a community documentation team? is documentation handled all internally?

[16:08]

no, most of the documentation is handled by the community, but we've had trouble recruiting folks to commit to documenting

[16:09]

sourcerror did a lot on the scratchbox thing, lots of folks contributed to derobert's guide

[16:09]

(which largely replaced some internally generated docs from Gao)

[16:09]

and user-oriented documentation?

[16:11]

more to the point, how can I help?

[16:15]

* JoeyBorn hugs shaunm in gratitude for asking

[16:15]

:)

[16:16]

what kind of documentation are you looking to contribute to?

[16:16]

user manuals and the like?

[16:26]

yes

[16:27]

ok, are you on the google ML?

nope

oh, ok.

I am now

well, I was going to loop Tim and Gao in on this question

[16:29]

Tim has developed the user manual, Collin did the embedded help and then there's everything else

[16:29]

but we'd like to keep them all in sync

[16:30]

wait, maybe not. is there a group specifically for documentation?

[16:30]

"documentation" ?

[16:31]

the only group I found a reference to on the wiki is Neuros-DM320Hardware

[16:31]

oh, sorry, yeah, that's the only group

[16:31]

unfortunately bad name too.

[16:35]

well, right now Tim's using openoffice to create the pdf that we post on the website as a manual

[16:36]

I guess we could put the doc in SVN?

[16:37]

shaunm, suggestions?

[16:37]

some stuff we can do on the wiki, but we'd like to have a pdf type downloadable "here's our manual" type of thing too

[16:38]

but clearly we need a lot of help even with that.

[16:38]

keeping everything in version control is generally a good idea

[16:38]

adding networking scenarios

[16:39]

IR blaster configs with various set-top boxes, that kind of stuff would be especially great for user input

[16:39]

it would be good to have html versions of all documentation on the web

[16:40]

right, what prompted me to come here was that I'm having a hard time figuring out what the osd can do for me

[16:40]

and specifically, if it will work with the systems I have

[16:40]

yep

[16:40]

Tim's manual is supposed to be an organized, up to date place for that, with no blind alleys so to speak.

[16:41]

great. where is it?

[16:42]

in draft, but I'll post it.

[16:42]

hold on

[17:02]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: trolltech has posted its lectures from Qt dev days

[17:02]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: very good stuff.

[17:02]

<crweb>

www.trolltech.com

[17:03]

<crweb>

The Qt Style Sheets presentation is excellent

[17:07]

<crweb>

very powerful stuff with the new style sheets. You can make a button look like anything you want, with no c++ coding

[17:31]

any easy way to get a link for something I'm posting on OdNT?

[17:31]

<crweb>

link to?

[17:32]

<crweb>

www.trolltechvideo.com

[17:32]

<crweb>

is the style sheet presentation

[17:32]

well, I can upload a file scp, but I don't know the http link to it

[17:32]

I must have some typo I can't fine

[17:32]

<crweb>

ah

[17:33]

s/find/fine

[17:33]

<crweb>

it really depends on the setup

[17:33]

<crweb>

you scp may or may not copy the file somewhere accessible to http

[17:35]

open.neurostechnology.com

[17:36]

well, I deliberately copied it to the location where the drupal files are, but maybe I had a typo or who knows what

[17:36]

anyway, shaunm there it is, sorry for the delay

[22:11]

sitwonade, long time no see!

[22:12]

hey

[22:12]

yea, it's been a long while

[22:12]

sorry about dropping off the face of the planet

[22:21]

you don't have to apologize, you are supposed to come and go as you please.

[22:22]

I'm getting a "network is unreachable" error on the vm, I think I followed the directions

[22:23]

I just downloaded what I think is the latest image (since I had an old one)

[22:23]

it was connecting just fine before, FWIW

[22:58]

hey JoeBorn, I was looking at the doc you posted. Is the OSD serial port able to control set top boxes yet?

[23:30]

no, not yet.

[23:36]

anyone on here familiar with the vm stuff?

[23:36]

thanks. just curious. I finally hooked up my TiVo to use the serial instead of blaster because programs were being misrecorded more often (not changing channel). Serial is very reliable and fast.

[23:36]

if your cable box accepts it.

[23:36]

:)

[23:38]

I can help you troubleshot the VM thing a little.

[23:39]

that sounds like exactly the problem I was having.

[23:40]

* sourcerror starting up my VM now (over on the windows machine)

[23:41]

JoeBorn: type... ifconfig