Log from #neuros IRC channel

[00:00]

yeah, we're definately in a race.

[00:00]

but we were in a race anyway, we have plenty of competitors, not the least of which is apple

[00:00]

I work for a company that is trying to utilize open source

[00:00]

believe me I'm just an engineer and leave the hard financial, marketing, sales stuff to people wiser than me.

[00:00]

there is an interesting problem

[00:01]

It's a small company and I was the only tech for a long time (we finally have another, but he's brand new)

[00:01]

The problem is that I am intelligent and can understand how it would be cool to make the company successful

[00:01]

I can see the business needs and golas

[00:01]

but, as a computer geek, I just don't care

[00:01]

I can't *make* myself care

[00:01]

in spite of the potential payoff

[00:02]

good thing there are all kinds of people to make the company work as a whole

[00:03]

I will make a broad overgeneralization here, but I think open source geeks, the kind who actually do the real hacking, have a hard time looking beyond the aspects of having a *Thing* and making it *Work*, to goals such as "improving OS adoption in the business world"

[00:03]

chreekat: I'm with you, I'm a geek at heart too

[00:04]

So I am optimistic about my company (and Neuros), but I think it is important that the visionaries, the kind who want to make good things happen from the fruits of open source hacking, realize who tehy are dealing with

[00:06]

I should make a caveat though

[00:06]

My company does web-based business apps, which I really can't stand

[00:06]

So my opinion is colored by that

[00:08]

hehe

[00:12]

fuck! bunch of red errors in the application list... something is broken in one of my packages again...

[01:52]

<cr-tablet>

there are open source geeks amoung us that have both interests in open source, and the business success of Neuros

[01:52]

<cr-tablet>

actually, most here do

[01:53]

<cr-tablet>

because if neuros isn't business success, then the outcome of all our open source work is very limited

[01:58]

<cr-tablet>

JoeBorn: theres a pretty big debate on how to copy the stuff over to the nfs directory.

[02:29]

cr-tablet: you tere?

[02:29]

<cr-tablet>

for a few min

[02:32]

did you see if you can host my mail etc?

[02:34]

<cr-tablet>

mm, i never got a reply

[02:34]

<cr-tablet>

I'll let you know in +8

[02:34]

<cr-tablet>

i have to wait for him to wake up

[02:42]

heh

[02:42]

k

[05:10]

sourcerror: you there ?

[10:50]

Xorlev: hi, you around ?

[10:50]

Yeah

[10:50]

Xorlev: did you see my email some time ago about using CIA to track svn commits ?

[10:50]

in ML i mean

[10:51]

No I didn't

[10:52]

well, do you know about that service ? cia.navi.cx

[10:52]

Can't say I have

[10:53]

well, it would be really nice to setup our svn server to work with that. from what i read from the docs it's about setting a python script in the commit hook of svn

[10:53]

Not hard

[10:54]

Xorlev: cia.navi.cx , so if i get the ok from the folks at neuros, can I ask you to try and install it ?

[10:54]

Sure

[10:55]

cool, maybe PM me your email, so i can give you a shout if it's ok

[10:55]

and you can try that at your convenience

[13:26]

nerochiaro: i added some mvc text into the wiki, can you please see if it makes sense?

[16:15]

* Hostile has a video crash that can be recreated

[16:36]

ugh the 3.28 versions of firmware suck for me

[16:37]

<crweb>

what video format?

[16:37]

xvid

[16:48]

crweb: its annoying, Unable to play source file I think is the message

[16:48]

something like that

[16:48]

source media maybe

[16:48]

it comes up during the video while its still playing, then 2 seconds later the video freezes and you have to exit back to the menu

[16:49]

<crweb>

what version you using?

[16:50]

3.28-0.73, I even was using the internal 0.79 when I first noticed this issue, I downgraded and it does the same thing

[16:51]

<crweb>

what version of xvid?

[16:52]

crweb: how can I tell with the video file?

[16:53]

crweb: will mplayer's codecs and stuff it uses to play it help?

[16:55]

<crweb>

mplayer -v might tell you

[16:56]

Opening video decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg's libavcodec codec family

[16:56]

INFO: libavcodec init OK!

[16:56]

Selected video codec: [ffodivx] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg MPEG-4)

[16:56]

networking is a nightmare, pure and simple.

[16:57]

VIDEO: [XVID] 640x480 12bpp 29.970 fps 1040.1 kbps (127.0 kbyte/s)

[16:57]

[V] filefmt:3 fourcc:0x44495658 size:640x480 fps:29.97 ftime:=0.0334

[16:57]

Clip info:

[16:57]

Software: MEncoder 1.0rc1-4.0.1

[16:57]

Encoded with mencoder 1.0rc1-4.0.1 it seems

[16:57]

crweb: can any of that help you?

[17:04]

well, anyway

[17:04]

so I'm working on the scratchbox vmguide

[17:04]

wiki.neurostechnology.com

[17:05]

and I've got some questions for the wizards

[17:05]

I'm on the "Develop Build and Test part

[17:06]

and I'm kind of confused about the Usage.tx file

[17:06]

<crweb>

as are most of us :)

[17:06]

didn't you create that crweb ?

[17:06]

<crweb>

heh... yes... :)

[17:06]

or was it your evil twin at work again

[17:07]

<crweb>

the part about packing doesn't quite work as advertized

[17:07]

<crweb>

scratchbox didn't work the way i thought it did when I wrote that

[17:08]

<crweb>

basically it should say : "Copy the files that make install installed to Target-Rootfs to /srv/neuros-osd-rootfs

[17:08]

<crweb>

if you copy/tar up everything, you'll destroy the stuff in /srv/neuros-osd-rootfs, which i didn't know

[17:09]

Usage.txt should be modified or I should just put that in the instructions/

[17:09]

?

[17:13]

crweb: I bought one of your linksys APs

[17:13]

<crweb>

probably both

[17:13]

I'm also trying to setup my NSLU2

[17:14]

<crweb>

i just found out out power bill is $300

[17:14]

<crweb>

S. Illinois is being utility raped right now

[17:14]

yeah, we're a part of that too

[17:15]

<crweb>

some 10 year contract ran out and they raised our rates over 60%

[17:15]

<crweb>

Amerin CIPS?

[17:15]

I don't know, but I believe it's a statewide thing

[17:16]

I think the legislature set the rate freeze statewide and it just expired or something like that

[17:16]

<crweb>

ahh, i didn't know it was state

[17:16]

I think so, it's been on the news here

[17:16]

<crweb>

we are now the highest rates int he US by 20%

[17:16]

wow, neat!

[17:17]

<crweb>

the amerin trucks are out and busy turning people's power off

[17:17]

that's just a joke.

[17:18]

<crweb>

not around here

[17:18]

fine, let the bills stack up, but there's no excuse for allowing the power to be cut off

[17:19]

so is there a simple app I can download and build for the OSD?

[17:19]

<crweb>

it is when you are a gas station tendent, and your power bill just went from $250 to $400

[17:19]

I'd love to run through that myself while I'm working on that manual.

[17:19]

absolutetly, we're in agreement

[17:19]

the joke is that ComEd (or amerin) is allowed to cut off power

[17:19]

<crweb>

oh oh

[17:19]

<crweb>

didn't catch that :)

[17:20]

what kind of power is it?

[17:20]

coal?

[17:20]

electric

[17:20]

<crweb>

Hostile: yes

[17:20]

oh, well it comes from a variety of sources, we even have nuclear here in IL

[17:20]

Need more nuclear :)

[17:21]

<crweb>

Hostile: it wouldn't matter, we are being utility raped

[17:21]

We have 2 nuclear plants within 50 miles of here, and at the one they are going to set up an additional reactor

[17:21]

crweb: yeah I understand

[17:21]

yeah, the regulated utility thing is problematic

[17:21]

<crweb>

our University has switched to its on campus power plant

[17:21]

if you really want to get sick you should watch the Enron movie

[17:22]

<crweb>

its cheaper for them to truck in coal than to pay power company

[17:22]

the brownouts/blackouts were a totally economic creation

[17:22]

crweb: I believe that

[17:22]

crweb: idk about around here, but all hospitals around here have their own coal plants

[17:22]

around there*

[17:22]

Enron was literallly inducing power plants to shut down to lower the supply of electricity

[17:23]

<crweb>

the city i live in highschool used to be $5000 a month, now its about $11k

[17:23]

<crweb>

even walmart runs with 1/2 its lights off

[17:24]

hmm sad.

[17:24]

crweb: any idea why my OSD behaves like that with xvid?

[17:25]

<crweb>

Hostile: no, but I'd love to have that video

[17:25]

I can link you :)

[17:25]

<crweb>

that'll work

[17:25]

<crweb>

JoeBorn: did you get the ap working?

[17:25]

videos.revision3.com

[17:26]

crweb, no, that's next

[17:26]

crweb: once you have it downloaded, Ill give you the place where mine dies everytime

[17:26]

<crweb>

what is nice though is our city has 2 power providers

[17:26]

for some reason, my AP here is assigning 192.168.2.xx

[17:26]

and so I can't see that NSLU2

[17:26]

<crweb>

if you're on the north side of town you have the old rates :)

[17:27]

<crweb>

JoeBorn: well, you should have only 1 ip scheme

[17:27]

<crweb>

and 1 dhcp server

[17:27]

AFAIK, there's only 1 ip scheme, but the NSLU2 came with a different one

[17:27]

<crweb>

JoeBorn: you'll have to tell the nslu2 to use dhcp

[17:27]

so I can't see it, and so I can't change it to the one I'm using

[17:27]

<crweb>

ah

[17:28]

<crweb>

all you have to do is change your pc's ip scheme to match the nslu2, change the settings on the nslu2 and then change your pc back

[17:28]

really? hmm, ok, let me give that a shot

[17:29]

brb after I try this

[17:29]

<crweb>

in theory naturally

[17:36]

crweb: in that video, about 11 minutes and 30 seconds is when mine gets close to messing up, right after that point

[17:38]

<JBorn_Handheld>

crweb: i disconnected switch from lan, set pc ip to static 192.168.1.1

[17:39]

<JBorn_Handheld>

Aargh

[17:39]

* JBorn_Handheld bails on nslu2 for time being

[17:43]

alright, well enough of that for now

[17:43]

crweb: any thoughts on an app I should try to dl build, etc?

[17:44]

<crweb>

you probably want to try something with very few extra files..

[17:44]

<crweb>

say.. wget

[17:45]

ok, great

[17:45]

oh, that's perfect!

[18:00]

* JoeyBorn just got introduction to wget, falls in love

[18:00]

um, excuse me wget and I will need a moment alone

[18:06]

hahaha

[18:06]

check out curl too

[18:19]

well, I first need to figure out this Linux thing generally

[18:20]

* JoeyBorn unshelves "beginning Linux Development" book... Page One...

[18:22]

*ahem* um, there's no kind of ...um ...er GUI with this VM is there?

[18:24]

not to sound like a total ignoramous, but how am I supposed to do anything without some gui tools

[18:24]

pardon, if I'm asking an ignorant question, but how do I even find wget to download without a browser?

[18:25]

<crweb>

very good questions :)

[18:26]

<crweb>

on the vm there is a nfs share that you can mount on your desktop. So you can use your desktop to save files onto the vm drive

[18:26]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: also, at the bottom of the vm guide on the wiki, i put instructions for installing desktops

[18:27]

right, I saw that X thing

[18:27]

can windows see an nfs share

[18:27]

<crweb>

not easily

[18:27]

<crweb>

you're right, i should add samba

[18:28]

I have other clients WinSCP, would that be easier?

[18:28]

<crweb>

yes winscp would be way eaiser

[18:28]

<crweb>

easier

[18:29]

there are two vmnetworking cards, how do I know which to use?

[18:29]

<crweb>

?

[18:29]

ie. which IP do I point to?

[18:29]

from windows to ssh/ point wscp

[18:29]

<crweb>

in winscp, you use the same ip as the osd

[18:29]

<crweb>

your vm's ip address

[18:30]

<crweb>

for your network

[18:30]

oh, gotcha, I guess I should have figured that.

[18:30]

<crweb>

you can pretty much fully pretend that the vm is a phsycial box downstairs connected to the network :)

[18:31]

* JoeyBorn continues to firmly grip on steep end of learning curve

[18:32]

cool, I'm in, wow, neat-o

[18:32]

<crweb>

good thinking on the winscp btw

[18:33]

I'll be pretty excited the day I can regularly make reasonable suggestions at least.

[18:34]

right now my participation feels like I'm using a jello pliers or something, not very fun

[18:36]

<crweb>

i just got my keyboard input stuff layed out

[18:36]

<crweb>

will be looking at a full music player soon

[18:42]

full music player, i support it ! :)

[18:42]

crweb: how about the existing ones ?

[18:43]

xine, xmms ... etc., on the web ?

[18:44]

<crweb>

those work a bit differently

[18:44]

<crweb>

we already have a music file player

[18:44]

<crweb>

called nmsd

[18:45]

<crweb>

our "music players" are just gui's that use nmsd

[18:50]

got it

[18:51]

well, this whole linux/dev environment/vm is wickedly cool

[19:09]

oh fck! can I just easily download the dev environment vm and run it and compile on it and netboot my OSD?

[19:10]

<crweb>

Hostile: that was the general idea.. yes..

[19:10]

<crweb>

you can even netboot from the vm

[19:10]

crweb: hmm, is that in working order now?

[19:11]

<crweb>

has been for several weeks..

[19:12]

<crweb>

jan 28, 2007

[19:12]

can I download it with torrent?

[19:12]

<crweb>

[17:04] <JoeBorn> wiki.neurostechnology.com

[19:12]

excellent

[19:16]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: i think we have enough changes to warrant an update

[19:17]

crweb: ok

[19:17]

<crweb>

i need to test the apt-get upgrade to see if its going to work as expected.

[19:17]

<crweb>

if so, nobody will have to redownload anything :)

[19:18]

seemed to work for me. I followed the instructions on the wiki

[19:18]

<crweb>

well, forcing apt-get to install packages like cvs, samba, etc

[19:18]

<crweb>

is harder to do

[19:18]

<crweb>

package injection isn't so easy

[19:21]

oh

[19:21]

so again, I appoligize for my ignorance, but do I just type make install wget from within the directory it created when I untarred?

[19:23]

<crweb>

./configure

[19:23]

<crweb>

make

[19:23]

<crweb>

make install

[19:23]

<crweb>

in side that dir yes

[19:23]

<crweb>

./configure --help to see all the options and features

[19:32]

ok, well I just took at the defaults, so it's done

[19:33]

I guess this is where the tar it all up and rootfs thing is wrong?

[19:36]

I really can't explain how cool this is.

[19:50]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: correct

[19:50]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: there are file conflicts

[19:51]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: the Target-Rootfs/usr/* isn't the same as /srv/neuros-osd-rootfs/usr/*

[19:51]

<crweb>

so if you just tar'd, you'd overwrite files that are important on the osd

[19:59]

<jwu_>

crweb: where must libsmbclient.so place? I place it in /lib/ but when osdmain run it will notice that libsmbclient.so not found

[20:00]

<crweb>

well, thats a hard one, because our osd's linux doesn't seem to have the standard library management stuff

[20:00]

<crweb>

and, our busy box doesn't support source, so we can't set env variables from scripts

[20:03]

<crweb>

you can try export LD_LIBRARY=/lib

[20:03]

<crweb>

i'm not really sure what works and doesn't at this point

[20:03]

<crweb>

since as nerochiaro pointed out we can't modify default env from inside of scripts

[20:04]

<jwu_>

crweb: HOW to set export LD_LIBARY=/lib/

[20:04]

<crweb>

in /etc/init.d/osdmain right before the /usr/local/bin/osdmain

[20:05]

<jwu_>

all lib osdmain used are in /lib/ only libsmbclient.so can not be load

[20:06]

<crweb>

put libsmbclient.so in /usr/local/samba/lib

[20:06]

<crweb>

see if that works

[20:06]

<jwu_>

ok

[21:19]

ok, sorry I'm back.

[21:19]

so crweb what are the correct instructions regarding this make install thing, I'll be happy to document as I go

[21:20]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: ok. it goes like this

[21:20]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: there are command line ways to do this but they aren't as clear

[21:20]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: first you ./configure

[21:20]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: then you make

[21:20]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: then you run sb-menu

[21:20]

yeah, I got to configure and make

[21:21]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: then Clean option and when it asks to copy files you choose no

[21:21]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: then exit

[21:21]

<crweb>

err, it might ask you if you want to reselect target. Hit yes

[21:21]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: then go back into the directory that was created when you untar'd

[21:22]

<crweb>

and type make install

[21:22]

<crweb>

then you can tar up the Target-Rootfs/* and untar it in /srv/neuros-osd-rootfs

[21:22]

<crweb>

and basically your tar file will be a "package"

[21:23]

sorry, I've got the sb-menu open, I guess I want to install?

[21:23]

<crweb>

no

[21:23]

<crweb>

you want to clean

[21:23]

<crweb>

to remove the sbox components fromt he rootfs

[21:24]

there is no clean option, there's setup, INstall, rootstrap, select, reset, remove, show, killall

[21:24]

<crweb>

reset

[21:24]

delete all files of target OSD?

[21:24]

<crweb>

yes

[21:25]

it returned me back to the sb prompt

[21:25]

<crweb>

excellent

[21:25]

<crweb>

now cd back into the wget dir

[21:26]

ok

[21:26]

<crweb>

type make install

[21:26]

what about all the ./config stuff I did previously? what was that all about?

[21:26]

<crweb>

that built wget

[21:27]

<crweb>

from source code

[21:27]

ok, it seemed to have worked

[21:27]

<crweb>

what you did was ./configure configured wget, make compiled the source code

[21:27]

<crweb>

it was compiled using stuff in the rootfs

[21:27]

wow, ok

[21:27]

<crweb>

then you cleaned the rootfs so it is empty

[21:27]

ok

[21:27]

<crweb>

then you make install and it copys wget to the rootfs

[21:27]

ok

[21:28]

<crweb>

so now all there is on your rootfs is wget

[21:28]

<crweb>

if you cd /

[21:28]

<crweb>

ls

[21:28]

<crweb>

you'll see the structure of wget

[21:29]

really? It seems like there's a lot of stuff in there.

[21:30]

<crweb>

like what?

[21:30]

<crweb>

should just be /usr maybe /etc

[21:31]

<crweb>

do the reset part again

[21:31]

<crweb>

and cd / then ls to see if its empty

[21:31]

<crweb>

nvrmind, i'll do it in a few

[21:33]

let me try it again

[21:34]

ok, well when I do the reset, it returns me to a directory that's just parent of wget..

[21:34]

when I type cd /

[21:34]

there's still a lot of stuff

[21:35]

including the scratchbox directory, mnt, all kinds of stuff

[21:35]

<crweb>

oh

[21:35]

<crweb>

i'm sorry, its not /

[21:36]

the sbox-OSD ~] is empty except for the wget directory

[21:36]

I guess that's what you meant?

[21:36]

<crweb>

no

[21:36]

<crweb>

i can't remember right now. Just got the vm decompressed and booting up

[21:36]

ok, what did you mean then :)

[21:36]

<crweb>

target/OSD

[21:36]

<crweb>

should be empty, the target rootfs

[21:37]

<crweb>

JoeyBorn: / is scratchbox's rootfs, not the target system

[21:37]

ok, that makes sense

[21:37]

<crweb>

i'll know soon as its booted

[21:37]

ok, so now I'm there, what now?

[21:38]

<crweb>

oh you found target/OSD ?

[21:39]

"targets" but yet

[21:39]

but yes

[21:40]

<crweb>

cool, it is empty right?

[21:41]

seems to be pretty much empty

[21:41]

<crweb>

ok

[21:41]

<crweb>

now if you go back to that wget dir and type make install

[21:41]

after I did the rest thing, I did make install, owing to my confusion

[21:41]

ok, I already did that

[21:41]

it created some directories in targets/OSD

[21:42]

<crweb>

yep, thats wget

[21:42]

ok, cool. what now?

[21:42]

<crweb>

ok, what you can do is exit

[21:42]

ok

[21:42]

<crweb>

then tar -jcvf wget-package.tar.bz2 Target-Rootfs/*

[21:43]

<crweb>

and you have a wget package

[21:43]

<crweb>

then if you want to install it onto the nfs for the osd

[21:43]

<crweb>

cd /srv/neuros-osd-rootfs

[21:44]

<crweb>

tar -jxvf /home/neuros/wget-package.tar.bz2

[21:44]

ok

[21:50]

wow, I need to run, but I feel like we're right at the cusp of the best part!

[21:51]

* JoeyBorn please, I beg of you, do not panic!