Log from #neuros IRC channel

first fiance cleaned me out. Let her borrow some pc's for her media design classes, she stripped them before she gave them back to me, 2 years after we broke up.

[00:17]

crweb: the liar/alkie is a deadly combo, i'm glad you are okay

[00:17]

<crweb>

eh, i didn't really like her

[00:17]

<crweb>

that one was just kinda "there"

[00:18]

ahh

[00:18]

<crweb>

for 1.5 years..

[00:18]

crweb: look behind you and up..see anything dark trailing you?

[00:19]

<crweb>

i fixed the problem

[00:19]

<crweb>

a.) i love being single

[00:19]

<crweb>

b.) no dating girls that come onto me.

[00:19]

towed cars, crazy gf's, can't make rice...sound like a good country song

[00:20]

<crweb>

if she's not worth me persuing, then she's not worth it

[00:20]

yep, in most cases if they come on to you then you aren't the only one getting that treatment

[00:20]

except for me bc im really really good lookin

[00:20]

<crweb>

well, same here

[00:21]

<crweb>

problem is, i'll be single for like a year, not date anyone. then drop my criteria

[00:21]

agreed on the pursuing

[00:21]

<crweb>

then it seems like they just pile on me all at once

[00:21]

<crweb>

they can tell when a awesome man has just become vurnable

[00:21]

vulnerable = horny?

[00:22]

<crweb>

no

[00:22]

:D

[00:22]

<crweb>

well a little

[00:22]

=)

[00:22]

<crweb>

more like vulnerable == can be used

[00:22]

<crweb>

they wait till they see your spirit break

[00:23]

ahh, the man eaters

[00:23]

<daurn>

Johndesigner: tell mgao that we need a complete GUI replacement

[00:23]

<crweb>

not this time though. No breaking happening here

[00:23]

<daurn>

something attractive, sleak etc

[00:23]

daurn: how would you like it replaced?

[00:23]

maybe mention qt? :)

[00:23]

<daurn>

animated, flowing

[00:24]

<crweb>

got the whole ego going now... theres no one around here better than me. Why should i settle for them ;)

[00:24]

attractive and sleek does not really happen on tube TV's

[00:24]

<crweb>

qt is nice

[00:24]

<daurn>

Johndesigner: sure it does...

[00:24]

<crweb>

but, we turned it down as a full replacement right now

[00:24]

crweb: you shouldn't

[00:24]

<daurn>

have a look at some stuff raster once worked on

[00:25]

<crweb>

thats E

[00:25]

<crweb>

nerochiaro has screen shots of E

[00:25]

daurn: where is it.

[00:25]

<crweb>

it is beautiful

[00:25]

<daurn>

Johndesigner: theres at least one clip on youtube i know of

[00:25]

<crweb>

daurn: that wasn't _on_ the osd though

[00:25]

<daurn>

i know

[00:25]

<daurn>

but, thats the sort of thing we should have

[00:25]

<crweb>

I can make beautiful mocups

[00:26]

<crweb>

not that he can't actually do it

[00:26]

<crweb>

i've got qt working pretty nice

[00:26]

sigh, I agree a nice looking Ui would be great, but i have simplified and simplified to the point of designing for a lite brite now]

[00:27]

find the utube clip for me? I dont know waht to search for

[00:30]

Long way between designing a slick interface and being able to have the resources to implement it

[00:30]

<daurn>

Johndesigner: its 656x272 - really wide :P

[00:30]

* Johndesigner pulls out more hair

[00:31]

I like the wide proportion very much, but that also makes for many more pages.

[00:31]

new GUi proportions will be more toward 16:9

[00:32]

toward, but not exatly

[00:32]

to better fit with PAl and NTSC

[00:34]

anyone on that you tube vid or can tell me what keyword to search?

[00:35]

search for "neuros osd" gives www.youtube.com

[00:37]

is that running on the OSD iteslf?

[00:41]

Rasterman's mockup wasn't running on the OSD was it?

[00:45]

<crweb>

no

[00:45]

that's the first i've seen it, but i would assume it wasn't (if it was, we'd probably be using that interface today)

[00:45]

<crweb>

it a little to much like the 442

[00:45]

you bet your ass we would, or at least the animation capabilities

[00:47]

<crweb>

its perfectly doable

[00:47]

<crweb>

the 442 already does it

[00:48]

<crweb>

and its older hardware

[00:48]

<crweb>

however, that ui is a bit to static

[00:48]

<crweb>

you can't add misc programs to it, etc

[00:48]

<crweb>

Qt4 just added the ribbon bar though

[00:49]

<crweb>

it would be pretty easy for me to make a running mockup of that..

[00:49]

hmm, I'll be finding out this week for the ifrst time what can and can't _actually_ be done on the OSD

[00:49]

<crweb>

well, anything "can" be done

[00:49]

<crweb>

it just has to be put into cooler

[00:49]

yep therein lies the rub

[00:49]

not that I know about the coolr stuff

[00:50]

<crweb>

at the same time, they are kinda flopping around blindly, not knowing what they need to pu tin cooler

[00:50]

I'm frustrated to tell you the truth

[00:50]

<crweb>

join the club

[00:50]

jsut at the situation not so much at anyone or a group

[00:50]

<crweb>

right

[00:51]

I can design a beautiful deck with green 2x4's, but it helps to know thats what Im designing with to begin with

[00:51]

if that makes any sense

[00:51]

<crweb>

you're in a cool spot

[00:52]

<crweb>

there are only "basic" widgets

[00:52]

<crweb>

your in a spot where you can.. make widgets that you need

[00:52]

<crweb>

err, design

[00:53]

I'll put in ANY amount of time designing a new GUI if I thought it would be able to be implemented

[00:53]

<crweb>

you've got the coders to do it

[00:53]

<crweb>

they just don't know what to code

[00:53]

<crweb>

unfortunately, they don't know much about api design either

[00:53]

<crweb>

so its a 3 party process

[00:54]

seems so yep

[00:54]

<crweb>

and without a good api, nobody else can use it except your 1 design

[00:55]

Well, Im not wild about that design either - jsut seemed like something attainable with the known criteria at the time

[00:56]

I was describing it as 'mathematical harmonies' , but not many of those have made it in yet

[00:56]

proper spacial relationships and such

[00:57]

but those guys have had their hand sfull with other stuff so...

[00:57]

<daurn>

Johndesigner: i was tinking that a sort of "L" interface would be good

[00:58]

l ?

[00:58]

L

[00:58]

<daurn>

well, clockwise L

[00:58]

I dont follow

[00:58]

<daurn>

menu hierachy swaps from left to top

[00:58]

<daurn>

Level 1 is on left,

[00:58]

<daurn>

level 2 on top

[00:58]

<daurn>

level 3 on left

[00:58]

<daurn>

level 4 on top

[00:58]

<daurn>

etc

[00:59]

gotcha, I did some work on that for a 442 concept

[00:59]

actually, this ui is an adaptation of the 442 gui work I did while volunteering

[00:59]

so it still needs some of those elements stripped away

[00:59]

and will be

[01:01]

one prob i had with the L is that it makes for different interaction modes depending upon the screen...lists for expample

[01:01]

and it rang a little CE for my taste

[01:02]

<daurn>

as you go through menu options, it would scroll the options - so that the one selected would be at the top left

[01:03]

<crweb>

i still say we base of the tried and true mythtv/tivo interfaces

[01:03]

<crweb>

playlist building and stuff in myth-music is amazingly easy

[01:03]

have you seen the apple TV interfcae?

[01:03]

<daurn>

i've seen 2 pictures

[01:03]

<crweb>

not yet. but apple doesn't impress me

[01:04]

the Itv interface isnt suitable of all the stuff the osd can do, but it is slick

[01:05]

I certainly am not saying to copy, emulate or even borrow from itv GUi, but it is an example

[01:10]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: ping

[01:10]

<crweb>

i could have swore we said cooler had be restructured into cooler-gui cooler-lib etc

[01:11]

I have played with the Itv for a day or two now and it actually has many similarities to what we are trying to do on the OSD

[01:11]

<crweb>

but I'm looking at the source and everything is the same.

[01:11]

* Johndesigner asks for the laughter to stop

[01:11]

What doose "bsp" mean in "neuros-bsp"

[01:12]

<crweb>

hellwolf: bsp was provided by ingenient to form the base system. it stands for Bootstrap

[01:12]

<crweb>

hellwolf: it is the "os"

[01:12]

Ok, thanks.

[01:13]

hi; pulled out my neuros ii 80gb after a long time; charged overnight and now it does not come on at all. any ideas?

[01:14]

And I tried nfsvers=3 option when mounting a nfsv4 server, it works

[01:15]

<crweb>

hellwolf: yes we found that was the problem shortly after you left the othe rnight

[01:16]

if i disconnect the backpack and connect the usb2 cable to the pc; the neuros light comes on, but xp doesnt detect the hd

[01:17]

it was in working condition 6 mon ths ago

[01:20]

and, what's the difference between kos and kos_64M

[01:21]

<crweb>

hellwolf: kos was for the units with only 32mb of ram

[01:22]

<daurn>

crweb: could you make an app that accepts pcm data from stdin and outputs to nmsd?

[01:22]

<crweb>

daurn: that would basically be a command line player

[01:22]

<crweb>

daurn: osdmain should beable to play your pcm file

[01:22]

<crweb>

oh wait

[01:22]

<daurn>

i don't want to use osdmain

[01:22]

<crweb>

you're asking for a stream

[01:23]

<crweb>

which isn't implemented yet

[01:24]

<daurn>

i don't want to use osdmain

[01:24]

<crweb>

who does

[01:24]

<daurn>

arg

[01:24]

<crweb>

sorry. bad joke

[01:24]

<daurn>

how did it say that

[01:24]

<daurn>

must have accidently pressed up

[01:25]

That's interesting, I'm learning the osdmain stuff and you want to drop them

[01:25]

<crweb>

hellwolf: its a common theme

[01:27]

<crweb>

the china team, and the community have been duking it out since the intial release on thinkgeek

[01:27]

<crweb>

over osdmain

[01:30]

Oh, exactly speaking, I'm browsing over the current neuros-bsp svn repository, IMHO, a little messy, I want to find a clue of how to package them up, since I took the package manager bounty

[01:30]

<crweb>

you don't package the bsp

[01:30]

<crweb>

it can't quite work like that.

[01:30]

<crweb>

the "base system" can't be in packages

[01:31]

<crweb>

first, flash is read only. 2nd, its flashed onto the osd, not package installed

[01:32]

<crweb>

the bsp is the bootstrap image. I think the goal of the package mananger is to handle 3rd party applications installed to media cards/usb, etc

[01:32]

<crweb>

i mean.. i don't see how else it can work.

[01:33]

You know the dependencies problem, I thought there could be a fake package called "neuros-bsp", every other 3rd package need that.

[01:33]

<daurn>

hmm

[01:34]

<crweb>

packages don't have to depend on anything do they?

[01:34]

<crweb>

the bsp is garantied to be installed..

[01:34]

<crweb>

guarantied

[01:35]

<crweb>

say.. libpng. Why would libpng have to depend on anything?

[01:36]

<crweb>

hellwolf: actually you're right.

[01:36]

<crweb>

hellwolf: it would be nice to say, Package needs neuros-bsp ver 0.2

[01:36]

<crweb>

please update your flash

[01:38]

<daurn>

yay

[01:38]

<daurn>

everytime i do this

[01:38]

<daurn>

my sd card comes out corrupt

[01:38]

<crweb>

you must not be letting it finish before you pull it out

[01:38]

<crweb>

it's not going to be a fast process

[01:38]

<daurn>

finsih?

[01:38]

<crweb>

it is only 180 mhz

[01:39]

<daurn>

i wait for it to finsih

[01:39]

<crweb>

finish processing/writing

[01:39]

<daurn>

even another 5 mins

[01:39]

<daurn>

still nothing

[01:39]

<crweb>

right

[01:39]

<crweb>

you know how long it would take to make a 3 minute mp3?

[01:39]

<crweb>

on the arm

[01:39]

<daurn>

it finishes

[01:40]

<daurn>

you get the cmd prompt again

[01:40]

Ok, the dependencies is automatically calced by the power of RPM, and if things like /usr/lib/libxx is packaged in package xx then anything link against it will depend on package xx. And if you like we don't package /usr/lib/libxx, then we don't have the dependencies over package xx(it doesen't exist). It can be so, but I just want things to be accordant

[01:41]

<crweb>

hellwolf: well. i see that as being wasted kb, making packages for things that basically "have to exist"

[01:41]

<crweb>

its not like someone can remove /usr/lib/libxx

[01:41]

<crweb>

or remove a base package

[01:41]

<crweb>

or even reinstall a base package

[01:42]

<crweb>

but having a form of version contol on cooler/osdmain, and the bsp would be helpfull to

[01:43]

<crweb>

the mentors haven't discussed the package manager project yet

[01:43]

<crweb>

waiting to think/talk about different aspects, problems, ways to handle things

[01:50]

www.awkwardtv.org

[01:51]

apple tv plugin to play local content

[01:52]

<crweb>

Johndesigner: it was suppose to do that anyway

[01:52]

<crweb>

oh i see

[01:52]

but they cut it for the realease?

[01:52]

<crweb>

no, thats used for 3rd party codec's

[01:52]

<crweb>

the itv does store files, but it does it like the ipod does

[01:53]

"ericiii has released ATVFiles, a plugin (�frappliance�) for the Apple TV that plays video files without transcoding and syncing/streaming them. Together with 3rd-party codecs, it can play a wide variety of formats."

[01:53]

<crweb>

and without a 3rd party app, you have to convert the video to itunes/ipod video

[01:53]

this thing is oing to get the shit hacked out if it it seems

[01:53]

<crweb>

for people like us, yes

[01:54]

<crweb>

for people like apple/itunes users, probably not

[01:54]

<crweb>

the ipod has actually got the shit hacked out of it too

[01:54]

crweb: true, the average person wouldn't

[01:54]

<crweb>

but, still not to popular

[01:55]

<crweb>

heck.. even my ipod is non-hacked

[01:55]

wow

[01:55]

you must have been too busy?

[01:55]

<crweb>

it plays music.. it does what i want...

[01:56]

crweb: I'll beinterested to talk to gao at length especially since hearing you talk about the stuff that was decided that I have no clue about

[01:56]

<crweb>

haha

[01:56]

not that I need to always know, but this stuff is killing me

[01:57]

<daurn>

man

[01:57]

<crweb>

you're only been in here what.. 2 weeks?

[01:57]

<daurn>

i love high quality stuff :P

[01:57]

crweb: yeah 2 weeks

[01:57]

<daurn>

i'm seeing more of a thing these days that you get what you pay for

[01:57]

<crweb>

Johndesigner: you've got 8 months backlog

[01:57]

<crweb>

daurn: its called getting older

[01:57]

heh, web stuff too

[01:58]

<crweb>

daurn: you start to notice that trend when you stop being so excited about the newest greatest trends

[01:58]

<daurn>

its not that

[01:58]

<daurn>

eg, when i buy designer clothing, it always feels of superior quality

[01:58]

<crweb>

oh

[01:59]

<daurn>

- like, smoother, silkier

[01:59]

daurn: what do you mean High quality stuff

[01:59]

<crweb>

that's just a mental handicap due to 20 years of marketing

[01:59]

<daurn>

na, I just try on clothing

[01:59]

<daurn>

i don't even look at the label

[01:59]

<crweb>

daurn: most of the time, the clothes come from the exact same material, at the exact same factory

[01:59]

if you use that apple tv for too long a dentist visit will be in order...bit too candy like for me over time

[01:59]

<daurn>

eg, jumper i'm wearing now, i walked into a discount store, saw a nice colour jumper, tried it on

[01:59]

<daurn>

went "i love the feel of this"

[02:00]

<daurn>

looked at the tag, and its ralph

[02:00]

<crweb>

its built into your submind. you can't avoid it at any level

[02:01]

<crweb>

colours, styles, they are already programmed in you. You can tell the difference between name brand and non. You're not always 100% correct, but the thought is still there somewhere

[02:01]

<daurn>

lol

[02:01]

<daurn>

i have no idea about fashion

[02:01]

<daurn>

i don't know any brands

[02:01]

<crweb>

you don't have to

[02:02]

<crweb>

look at the people around you. what do they look like

[02:02]

<crweb>

compaired to how they act

[02:02]

<crweb>

how they spend

[02:02]

<crweb>

etc

[02:02]

<crweb>

watch tv

[02:02]

<daurn>

haha, the guys i hang out with are rich clubbers :P

[02:02]

<crweb>

they don't tell you the brands the actors wear. But you see waves of people with the same styles/looks

[02:03]

<daurn>

yes you do

[02:03]

<daurn>

i read a trash mag once - its all about who wears what label

[02:03]

<crweb>

you know the brand name of every piece of clothing the friends cast wears during an episode?

[02:04]

<daurn>

its in the magazines

[02:04]

<crweb>

you don't need to be told

[02:04]

<crweb>

you know what it looks like

[02:04]

<crweb>

thats all that matters

[02:04]

<daurn>

crweb: can you download this for me?: fileho.com

[02:04]

<crweb>

the tv programs your brain.

[02:05]

<daurn>

i don't have a tv

[02:05]

<crweb>

you've seen tv though

[02:05]

<crweb>

you've seen movies

[02:05]

<crweb>

you can't escape marketing.

[02:06]

<crweb>

and they do market you. even though it looks like they are marketing for someone else

[02:06]

<crweb>

what am i suppose to do with this?

[02:08]

<daurn>

unzip to a mem card

[02:08]

<daurn>

open telnet to osd

[02:08]

<crweb>

whats the .exe about?

[02:08]

<daurn>

excute: ./wavpack/wvfilter < sly.wv > sly.wv

[02:08]

<daurn>

crweb: its a 7z auto extractable

[02:09]

<daurn>

crweb: you can decompress with 7z on linux

[02:09]

<crweb>

well have to wait

[02:09]

<crweb>

i'm about to crash

[02:09]

<crweb>

it's 7:09

[02:09]

<daurn>

its 5:08

[02:10]

<crweb>

no, its 7:09. Guaranty it

[02:11]

<crweb>

which btw, means its way past my bed time

[02:19]

The osd kernel seems to preserve 64-16 M memory for av system, and some one told me it could shrink to 2M, is it true, and how to do it?

[02:56]

<daurn>

hellwolf: can you do it?

[02:58]

No, only when I use "boot kernel_addr initrd_addr" in uboot, I got full of 64M memory, but some device driver failed to work e.g. the ethernet card

[03:02]

<daurn>

no

[03:02]

<daurn>

i mean

[03:02]

<daurn>

the wavpack test

[03:04]

Well, any guide on it? I missed your discussion

[03:42]

<daurn>

[17:03:46] <daurn> crweb: can you download this for me?: fileho.com

[03:42]

<daurn>

s/crweb/hellwolf

[03:42]

<daurn>

[17:07:15] <daurn> unzip to a mem card

[03:42]

<daurn>

[17:07:23] <daurn> open telnet to osd

[03:42]

<daurn>

[17:07:45] <daurn> excute: ./wavpack/wvfilter < sly.wv > sly.wv

[05:27]

Johndesigner: crweb: anyone of you folks was looking for me ?

[05:27]

irssi tells me something,