| [00:33] | <crweb> | is there an audio format other than ac3 that can preserve Dolby 5.1? |
| [01:12] | <srobertson> | crweb: define "preserve"... you mean avoid transcoding? |
| [01:13] | <crweb> | mm.. i mean more like.. keep all 6 channels |
| [01:14] | <srobertson> | ogg vorbis, aac, musepack (i think), flac, and more |
| [01:14] | <srobertson> | aac has n-way channel coupling, and i think vorbis might |
| [01:14] | <crweb> | anything that i can embed with h264 audio? |
| [01:14] | <crweb> | and still have pretty high quality, multi channel sound |
| [01:15] | <crweb> | err |
| [01:15] | <crweb> | h264 video |
| [01:15] | <crweb> | i still haven't chosen a container |
| [01:15] | <crweb> | avi is def. out |
| [01:15] | <crweb> | unless i can figure out multi track audio |
| [01:16] | <srobertson> | vorbis + h264 goes will with ogm, and aac+h264 goes well with mp4; anything works with mkv |
| [01:16] | <crweb> | having sync issues |
| [01:16] | <crweb> | when i go mp4(h264) video and ac3 audio into mkv |
| [01:17] | <crweb> | mencoder can't do mkv |
| [01:17] | <crweb> | have to mp4 first |
| [01:17] | <may1937> | vorbis used to suck for > 2 channels, but it's been a while since i really checked |
| [01:19] | <crweb> | i'm attempting to move all my media to next gen |
| [01:19] | <crweb> | and my tests show that 1500 bitrate h264 when converted to 1500 xvid really doesn't lose much at all |
| [01:20] | <crweb> | so i can just convert media when i want to play it in divx hardware |
| [01:24] | <may1937> | really? that would greatly surprise me |
| [01:25] | <crweb> | why? |
| [01:25] | <crweb> | h264 is better quality at same bitrage |
| [01:26] | <crweb> | the "loses" you get from the conversion are pretty close to that of the lose from original source -> divx/xvid |
| [01:26] | <crweb> | losses, loss |
| [01:31] | <may1937> | i would just expect the losses to be greatly exaggerated on the second encoding |
| [01:31] | <may1937> | but maybe h.264 is just "that good" |
| [01:33] | <crweb> | i can tell the difference betwen xvid at 1250 and h264 at 1250 for sure |
| [01:36] | <crweb> | from compression.ru |
| [01:36] | <crweb> | it looks like at 1500kbps h264 is about 6% better than xvid |
| [01:37] | <crweb> | at 1000kbps it is close to 10% better |
| [01:37] | <crweb> | and at 500kbps, its 15% better |
| [01:37] | <crweb> | quality wise |
| [01:38] | <crweb> | compression.ru |
| [01:38] | <crweb> | whoops |
| [01:38] | <crweb> | compression.ru |
| [01:38] | <crweb> | there we go |
| [01:41] | <crweb> | going to need some more sata power connectors.. just added a 400gb sata2 drive to my line up :) |
| [01:42] | <may1937> | have you downloaded the internet yet? |
| [01:42] | <crweb> | i don't think 4TB is going to cut it |
| [01:42] | <may1937> | i highly recommend it |
| [01:43] | <crweb> | i've got most of it filled with rips of dvd's i own though |
| [01:43] | <crweb> | no actually even more of it is content form my PVR-150 |
| [01:51] | <may1937> | you are right of course, i was trying to get at the instruction matching |
| [01:52] | <may1937> | wrong channel :P |
| [11:35] | <crweb> | Apple TV gets blasted for looking like crap on HD tv playback |
| [11:36] | <JoshMalone> | LOL |
| [11:37] | <JoshMalone> | I wondered WTF Jobs was thinking making it HD-only |
| [11:37] | <crweb> | as was i |
| [11:37] | <JoshMalone> | stupidest |
| [11:37] | <crweb> | especially since itunes content video looks like shit at 800x600 on my monitor |
| [11:37] | <JoshMalone> | decision |
| [11:37] | <JoshMalone> | evar |
| [11:38] | <crweb> | he got caught in the, everyone wants it cause its called HD, not because it is quality |
| [11:38] | <JoshMalone> | well sure - make it HD capable |
| [11:39] | <JoshMalone> | but also include SD so you dont instantly alienate 3/4 of your potential customers |
| [11:39] | <crweb> | the only reason for not supporting older TV's is the appearnce of some "next generation" of technology |
| [11:39] | <JoshMalone> | I know Joe would never make that bad a decision |
| [11:39] | <JoshMalone> | :) |
| [11:40] | <crweb> | i won't have an HD tv until they force me to buy one |
| [11:40] | <crweb> | and I stay pretty up to date |
| [11:40] | <JoshMalone> | or becuz your part doesn't support composite. But getting composite is SO EASY |
| [11:41] | <JoshMalone> | im sure almost every video chip that does component also does composite - or at least sep (y/c) |
| [16:17] | <concept10> | Hello all. I am new to Neuros and ive been reading the wiki for about an hour. Is the OSD the Recorder III ? |
| [17:37] | <srobertson> | concept10: yes. |
| [17:47] | <concept10> | srobertson, thanks, i ended up finding out somewhere eventually on the wiki |
| [17:48] | <concept10> | seems to be a great platform for starting with embedded linux |
| [19:49] | <crweb> | who was here talking about wavpack the other day? |
| [19:59] | <TasogareNoKagi> | sure it was wavpack? I remember someone talking about some hacks that had flac working, don't know who though |
| [19:59] | <crweb> | yes, wavpack |
| [20:00] | <crweb> | sorune was flac i believe |
| [20:01] | <sorune> | i believe daurn uses wavpack |
| [20:01] | <crweb> | mm.. |
| [20:01] | <crweb> | well, i did a bunch of tests |
| [20:01] | <crweb> | and wavpack didn't perform nearly as well as most of the websites claim |
| [20:02] | <crweb> | flac (at best) and wavpack (at best) were within few kb. Ape at best was 1mb smaller |
| [20:02] | <sorune> | i've confirmed that the OSD can playback wavpack w/o trouble |
| [20:03] | <crweb> | using arm? |
| [20:03] | <sorune> | yeah |
| [20:03] | <crweb> | how do you output the audio? |
| [20:03] | <sorune> | wavpack/flac/vorbis/mp3 |
| [20:03] | <crweb> | go from format -> pcm -> nms? |
| [20:03] | <sorune> | yeah |
| [20:03] | <crweb> | can't do much else on the cpu while that is going on though |
| [20:04] | <sorune> | actually, it's not that bad |
| [20:04] | <crweb> | well, decoding probably isn't |
| [20:04] | <sorune> | you just have to buffer it correctly |
| [20:04] | <crweb> | even my old Zaurus could play flac |
| [20:04] | <sorune> | yeah, i didn't try a high q vorbis file |
| [20:06] | <crweb> | would be nice to have the dsp on that though |
| [20:06] | <crweb> | shouldn't be to hard to write a flac codec |
| [20:06] | <sorune> | for the dsp? |
| [20:08] | <sorune> | anyways, i'm looking into doing it on the arm... i'll let somebody else port it to the dsp if they want to |
| [20:09] | <crweb> | yeah, once there is a bridge you can write anything for the dsp |
| [20:11] | <crweb> | looks like wavpack, monkey's and flac are all really lossess |
| [20:11] | <crweb> | all sha1sum's match atleast |
| [20:14] | <TasogareNoKagi> | what, you're compressing and then decompressing? |
| [20:15] | <crweb> | yes |
| [20:15] | <crweb> | wanted to make sure they were really lossless |
| [20:21] | <crweb> | going to test a 500mb wav file now too |
| [20:21] | <crweb> | then post results |
| [20:23] | <chreekat> | the bridge is a SoC project, right? |
| [20:23] | <TasogareNoKagi> | it was an idea at least |
| [20:24] | <crweb> | chreekat: dont know yet |
| [20:24] | <crweb> | chreekat: had 7 picked out, they gave us 5 slots |
| [20:24] | <chreekat> | crweb: ah, ok |
| [20:24] | * crweb just got a letter from a google recruiter | |
| [20:25] | <crweb> | wanting me to setup a phone interview time |
| [20:25] | <crweb> | for, exploring career opportunities at Google.. |
| [20:27] | <crweb> | wonder how they found me. |
| [20:28] | <chreekat> | woohoo, a patch to irssi that makes scrollback scroll whole lines minus N lines of context |
| [20:28] | * chreekat switches | |
| [20:35] | <TasogareNoKagi> | for SoC, is everyone else going to get a "we picked someone else" letter or will hear nothing? |
| [20:45] | <crweb> | Google will announce the picks april 11th |
| [20:45] | <crweb> | other than that, i don't know |
| [20:46] | <crweb> | there will be a list, if you're not on it, you didn't get it.. |
| [20:46] | <crweb> | i suppose |
| [20:52] | <TasogareNoKagi> | crweb: did you get that or do I have to jump through the registration hoops with freenode? |
| [20:55] | <crweb> | you have to register, sorry |
| [21:06] | <crweb> | www.limesg.com |
| [21:07] | <crweb> | whoops |
| [21:08] | <crweb> | ok, all better |
| [21:09] | <gl2tosl2> | are the levels of flac the compression level? |
| [21:10] | <crweb> | yes |
| [21:10] | <gl2tosl2> | huh, very little gain in size |
| [21:11] | <crweb> | they are mini steps yes |
| [21:12] | <gl2tosl2> | what is the cpu cost, encoding not such a concern, but decoding might be |
| [21:12] | <crweb> | we are just discussing that in another channel |
| [21:12] | <crweb> | can't choose a way to best measure |
| [21:13] | <gl2tosl2> | you know crweb, this is exactly the kind of thing that you could use some more advanced math to figure out |
| [21:13] | <gl2tosl2> | wink |
| [21:13] | <crweb> | pfft |
| [21:13] | * crweb pulls out stop watch | |
| [21:15] | <gl2tosl2> | oh sure, just ask "some stupid machine" as one of my professors puts it |
| [21:15] | <gl2tosl2> | I would only point out that computers have limited use for figuring out some of this algorithmic stuff |
| [21:15] | <gl2tosl2> | however, if you are concerned with applicable stuff, they tend to be useful |
| [21:16] | <crweb> | i can do O notation |
| [21:16] | <gl2tosl2> | nice |
| [21:18] | <crweb> | heh |
| [21:18] | <crweb> | doing some decode tests |
| [21:18] | <gl2tosl2> | and cpu usage by compression level shows? |
| [21:19] | <crweb> | takes flac -d 2 seconds to decode the level 8 compression of flac |
| [21:19] | <crweb> | takes mac (monkey audio tools), 221 seconds to decode the "insane" level of the ape file |
| [21:20] | <gl2tosl2> | I'll be interested in seeing the decode times against the file size |
| [21:20] | <gl2tosl2> | etc |
| [21:20] | <crweb> | the file size is the same |
| [21:20] | <gl2tosl2> | ? |
| [21:20] | <crweb> | in those 2 |
| [21:21] | <crweb> | same original wav file |
| [21:21] | <gl2tosl2> | I meant for the same audio file, the compressed file size versus time to decode |
| [21:21] | <gl2tosl2> | for the different compression methods/compression levels |
| [21:21] | <crweb> | ah |
| [21:21] | <crweb> | yeah, i'm not going to do all that yet |
| [21:21] | <crweb> | i just wanted to see if i could shave a few gig off my collection |
| [21:22] | <gl2tosl2> | and I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble :) |
| [21:23] | <crweb> | everything is already flac |
| [21:23] | <crweb> | and flac it stays |
| [21:23] | <crweb> | takes almost no cpu to play flac |
| [21:23] | <crweb> | to cut a 1mb off of each file, but to add 90% more cpu load to play, not worth it |
| [21:23] | <crweb> | though.. that would save me about 1.5 gigs |
| [21:24] | <gl2tosl2> | what device are you storing this on? |
| [21:26] | <crweb> | the testing was done in tmpfs |
| [21:26] | <crweb> | i have a 500gb firewire2 drive |
| [21:26] | <crweb> | firewire 800 sorry |
| [21:30] | <crweb> | i can't get my raw h264 video, and ac3 audio to sync up |
| [21:31] | <TasogareNoKagi> | is it dropping frames trying to decode everything? |
| [21:32] | <crweb> | its failure on encoding |
| [21:32] | <crweb> | trying to put video track, and ac3 audio track into a matroska container |
| [21:38] | <crweb> | if the AC3 audio stream was used for a 29.970 fps video, and i changed the video to 23.something and tried to put them back together, would that hurt sync? |
| [21:39] | <TasogareNoKagi> | are you re-encoding it to 23 fps or just poking the number? |
| [21:39] | <crweb> | poking? |
| [21:39] | <crweb> | it was a mixed fps video |
| [21:40] | <crweb> | telecined/progressive |
| [21:40] | <crweb> | so i made it progressive 24000/1001 |
| [21:40] | <crweb> | then i took progressive.h264 and merged it with audio.ac3 |
| [21:41] | <crweb> | i have a 24000/1001 file, and a AC3 audio file... need someway to combine them into 1 file and keep sync |
| [21:42] | <TasogareNoKagi> | look for "mkvtool" or "mkvtools" if you're not using them already |
| [21:43] | <crweb> | yeah mkvmerge |
| [21:43] | <crweb> | thats what i'm using to merge the video and audio file onto a mkv |
| [21:45] | <crweb> | its in sync until the first fps switch (which I removed with pullup,softskip) with mencoder |
| [21:49] | <TasogareNoKagi> | do you do the transcode in one go or split it up into chucks with constant video fps? |
| [21:49] | <crweb> | mencoder was suppose to handle it |
| [21:50] | <TasogareNoKagi> | I wouldn't know, the last time I messed with video in any significant degree was virtualdub on windows |
| [22:21] | <crweb> | works fine if i leave them together, falls apart if i do them in seperate files... |
| [22:39] | <leif> | hey |
| [22:40] | <leif> | so if my cat just stepped on my power switch |
| [22:41] | <leif> | and freenode thinks I'm still logged on from the last time |
| [22:41] | <leif> | how do I get my nick back? |
| [22:45] | <crweb> | what was your nick? |
| [22:46] | <leif> | gl2tosl2 |
| [22:46] | <crweb> | /msg nickserv ghost <nickname> <password>ah |
| [22:46] | <crweb> | err |
| [22:46] | <crweb> | leave off the ah |
| [22:46] | <chreekat> | or you just wait for a bit. :) |
| [22:46] | <chreekat> | but yeah if you have nickserv it's the best |
| [22:47] | <chreekat> | ...way |
| [22:48] | <gl2tosl2> | seems to have done the trick |
| [22:48] | <gl2tosl2> | thanks |