Log from #neuros IRC channel

nerochiaro: ah. Do we not use those other things (oss, alsa) because it needs to interface with the proprietary stuff? Also, does all data pass through the dsp on its way off the device?

[00:59]

<crweb>

chreekat: think of nms.. as.. oss and alsa

[00:59]

* chreekat needs to look at diagrams, probably

[00:59]

chreekat: both answers yes

[00:59]

chreekat: not 100% sure about PCM data, but i think that too

[00:59]

woot, time for me to call it a night before I start saying things that are patently wrong

[00:59]

<crweb>

everything but the frame buffer

[01:00]

<crweb>

lol

[01:00]

chreekat: they were legitimate questions, you're not slipping into insanity yet :)

[01:01]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: i agree with your email. Wouldn't mind mentoring 2 students.. but I might be starting a new job a little sooner than expected

[01:01]

<crweb>

so, 1 is fine

[01:01]

ok

[01:01]

crweb: new job ?

[01:05]

is there is any latest firmware than .88 ?

[01:05]

<crweb>

.88 is newest released

[01:07]

oh ok

[01:07]

crweb: thanks

[01:32]

crweb: the problem sorune was having is that he wrote a small program to play PCM data thru nmsd and after the first run it won't output anything anymore

[01:35]

<crweb>

ah

[01:35]

<crweb>

well then..

[01:35]

<crweb>

we'll need to take a look at that..

[01:35]

crweb: pastebinning the code if you want to look at it

[01:35]

<crweb>

ok

[01:35]

pastebin.ca

[01:38]

<crweb>

Joe says he's just landed

[01:38]

yeah, i already got one email from him, so he's not in the air anymore :)

[01:39]

<crweb>

ok, queue'ing that up in my todo bin

[01:39]

<crweb>

I've got to go crash

[01:39]

<crweb>

have a good morning.

[01:40]

and you have a good sleep

[01:40]

<crweb>

( i have decided that all future references of morning/day/night will be given in UTC :) )

[01:40]

crweb: i like it

[01:42]

* crweb is away: passed out like... a programmer who hasn't slept since yesterday.

[02:44]

is this the channel for all things neuros?

[02:44]

sure thing :)

[02:44]

khaije1: aye

[02:45]

hey nerochiaro, congrats on yr new employ (i just read the email ;-) )

[02:45]

khaije1: thanks :)

[02:45]

i've just pulled up all the info i could find on the OSD, but would you mind a few questions?

[02:46]

khaije1: sure (first rule is: don't ask to ask, just ask ;))

[02:46]

hehe, ok

[02:47]

what are the current and expected options for lan storage, and the performance / prospects w/ the OSD?

[02:48]

right now you can mount shares with nfs and samba, if that's what you were asking

[02:48]

by that i mean lan-based. i'm thinking in particularly of my networked pc

[02:48]

it is, how is the performance?

[02:49]

side thought: it would be really nice to show some test cases or testimonials from people in order to help people understand what the unit is capable of...

[02:53]

there are some problems with samba, nfs seems to work fine for most people

[02:54]

i have two other questions (2) how smart is this device? in other words is there any progress on a tivo-ish layer? and (3) can you direct me to a place i can see different examples of how it is being used?

[02:54]

khaije1: as for the testimonials, i agree, although i never like these :)

[02:55]

khaije1: if with tivo you mean rewind live tv, that isn't in the feature set.

[02:55]

w/ re: to my question (1) are there other ones, http, ftp , sftp for example?

[02:55]

(1) you mean play from FTP server ?

[02:55]

w/ (2) i mean more of the streamlined but powerful content mgmt interface

[02:57]

(1) yes that sort of thing, i know i'm being very specific but i'm trying to visual what i need to do to personaly impliment it. I don't run nfs, and would prefer sftp if available

[02:58]

nerochiaro: take your time answering, i'm googling these things now :-)

[02:58]

(2) well, we're improving a lot the interface, but if you have specific suggestions on what you think would be useful, they're welcome. i mean, post them in the mailing list so other can discuss these too

[02:59]

and for (1), it can't play from FTP/TFTP. there will be an UPNP av implementation later that will allow HTTP streaming among other things, i think

[03:00]

(1) cool, thats probably better than ftp anyway now that i think of it...

[03:01]

what is the appropriate mailing list for these discussions?

[03:03]

it's a bit badly named, but it's this one: groups.google.com

[03:07]

ooooh! I think i've seen this but didn't realize it was what i was looking for, thanks

[03:08]

you're welcome

[03:11]

such a huge amount of fast changing information!

[03:12]

indeed, but on the other hand you have a product that's evolving, which for some is better than having all info, but functionality (and bugs) set in stone

[03:13]

yet another tradeoff :)

[03:14]

i'm pretty sure this is the itch to a long standing scratch, a few years ago i bought a tv-capture card for 150$ that was never much use because of the layout of my apt, i should have just waited and got the OSD. At this point I'm just trying to keep my excitement from getting in the way of my analysis

[03:14]

my initial tutorial ^_^

[03:15]

oh snap! A freenx plugin for this would be amazing... i wonder if thats possible :-/

[03:19]

freenx for the OSD ?

[03:19]

i doubt it. we don't have X on it

[03:20]

the client i mean, o ok, it would probably be pretty cpu demanding too

[03:38]

nerochiaro: yeah, that's still a problem

[03:38]

sorune: 1 sec, i'm at phone

[03:42]

sorune: crweb said he will have a look at that tomorrow

[03:42]

sorune: i wanted to ask you about the thing you posted in ML about sourcing /etc/profile to add stuff to path

[03:43]

ok

[03:43]

sorune: it seems that sourcing from scripts in busybox's ash doesn't work

[03:44]

really? wow, that's a big problem

[03:44]

how are you doing it?

[03:44]

last time i tried didn't work. with ". /file/to/source" inside a script

[03:44]

ash's source is ". file" no ?

[03:45]

. is shorthand for source, so try either . file or source file

[03:45]

not sure which ash use

[03:45]

bbox doens't have the alias "source"

[03:45]

and . works from cmd line, but appearently not from scripts

[03:46]

nerochiaro: ok, let me do some testing

[03:47]

sorune: thank you. i did these tests some time ago, so maybe something changed now. i kinda shelved the issue as "grr, i'm kinda out of ideas" some time ago

[03:51]

nerochiaro: seems to be working now

[03:52]

what test did you do ?

[03:52]

put ". /etc/profile" in mountall.sh and echo'd $PATH before and after

[03:52]

PATH was updated

[03:53]

be sure to use "PATH=$PATH:<new dir>; export PATH"

[03:56]

i'll give it a shot in a second

[03:57]

wow, whole Xiamen office suddently fell off the internet

[04:03]

good morning :)

[04:12]

greetings

[04:26]

sorune: sourcing /etc/profile from mountall seems to work

[04:27]

nerochiaro: good deal

[04:28]

sorune: however sourcing anything that's not /etc/profile seems to not work

[04:29]

ok, that's bizarre

[04:29]

well, i guess that means /etc/profile is the right place to put this stuff :)

[04:29]

yeah, it's enough for me at least :)

[04:34]

sorune: oh, funny. it's not actually the sourcing that worked. it's /etc/profile that gets picked up regardless that you source it or not

[04:35]

nerochiaro: no, it's the sourcing

[04:36]

nerochiaro: i tried with /etc/bogus and that works too

[04:36]

try this code...

[04:36]

but i created /etc/profile and didn't source it and it worked too

[04:37]

uhmmm... that's not what I'm seeing during init

[04:37]

it's sourced when ash is started via telnet if that's what you mean

[04:39]

i'm using serial, no telnet. and i create /etc/profile but don't add any ". /etc/profile" to any file. but the variables i set in there gets picked up

[04:40]

i also tried sourcing /xxx.sh from mountall.sh and it didn't pick up the variable i exported from there

hey all

daurnimator: hey

are you doing it like that post?

[04:41]

i saw we have flac

[04:42]

sorune: ah, no. i'm trying to see if the variables are set in my shell after the init completes. that is, i'm trying to look if these variables are available to any other script outside of the one that did the sourcing

[04:42]

sorune: the script that does sourcing get the variables, i agree with that

[04:44]

it's working correct then...

[04:45]

your shell shouldn't pick up changes to files that are sourced during init

[04:45]

you have to source those files manually yourself or use /etc/profile which is auto sourced

[04:45]

where does it pick up path and similar global variables then ?

[04:46]

ah, ok

[04:48]

is the following correct, then ? if i want these vars available to the shell, i just put them into /etc/profile. if i need these variables available to programs that start up during init, i have to source /etc/profile from the init scripts themselves.

[04:48]

yep, that's how to do it

[04:48]

sorune: cool. thanks a bunch, i was really foggy on this

[04:49]

you're welcome

[04:58]

<DeepB>

anyone has tried P2P Pango in Linux?

<DeepB>

<DeepB>

<DeepB>

??

[05:02]

DeepB: doesn't seem much better than bittorrent. also it's only windows and osdX, in linux you need wine, no ?

[05:02]

i mean, it uses bittorrent inside

[05:05]

<DeepB>

img398.imageshack.us

[05:05]

<DeepB>

no wine

[05:06]

<DeepB>

256AES P2P

[05:08]

DeepB: where do you download the native linux app ?

[05:08]

<DeepB>

and yes, it uses BitTorrent inside

[05:09]

<DeepB>

nerochiaro: www.pando.com

[05:10]

<DeepB>

it is closed source :(

[05:12]

meh, it seems pretty useless to me

[05:12]

i really hope it doesn't become popular

[05:13]

<DeepB>

very very little load

[05:13]

DeepB: of course it has little load. all the files are hosted on Pando's servers and they seed them

[05:14]

<DeepB>

nerochiaro: yes, exactly

[05:15]

well, what's the point of using bittorrent inside then ? you can just host the files on Pando's server and give out HTTP links to download the file

[05:17]

<DeepB>

nerochiaro: 5 millions of dl, www.pandoblog.com

[05:18]

DeepB: well, i really hope no one ever sends me a .pando file

[05:19]

<DeepB>

nerochiaro: jejeje

[05:22]

sorune: would you consider working on wavpack now? ;)

[05:23]

sorune: the flac work you did was to port the flac decoder to ARM (if not already ported) and have it pipe the decoded PCM to nms, right ? or there was more ?

[05:24]

daurnimator: i have that working too (sort of)

[05:25]

nerochiaro: that's right

[05:25]

nerochiaro: nothing fancy yet

[05:26]

nerochiaro: just a proof of concept... now i'm looking into using libFLAC

[05:28]

sorune: it's fine. i was just curious how you did it

[05:30]

actually, if someone wanted to support a lot of codecs quickly, that would be the way to go

[05:30]

i got wavpack/vorbis/mp3/flac working in less than an hour

[05:31]

indeed. faster way even if less elegant

[05:32]

sorune: yay ;)

[05:32]

sorune: the arm optimized, portable one, or the full thing?

[05:32]

daurnimator: that arm one you sent out

[05:32]

ok

[05:33]

daurnimator: i think it's outputting wav though, yes?

[05:33]

raw PCM

[05:33]

daurnimator: cool

[05:33]

daurnimator: i guess it's working fine then

[05:34]

sorune: do you have wavpack files to test with? ;)

[05:35]

daurnimator: just one i created with the arm encoder

[05:35]

i'm not sure about that arm encoder...

[05:36]

the full encoder has so many options

[05:36]

how do you pass things to it?

[05:36]

daurnimator: i getting a pop at the beginning of the file (indicative of a wav header)

[05:37]

daurnimator: so, i think that wavpack decoder is outputting wav instead of pcm... just a guess though... i should verify

[05:37]

did you get the docs?

[05:37]

nope

[05:38]

is there a switch? :)

[05:41]

daurnimator: verified... "wvfilter < foo > bar" ... bar has a wav header

[05:43]

look in the source :P

[05:43]

ok

[05:44]

source for decoder: www.wavpack.com

[05:47]

daurnimator: bummer, no switch, gotta recompile it

[05:54]

daurnimator: ok, i ifdef'd the wav header out and no more pop :)

nice

the question is

is that good enough?

should we be using full wavpack - with all the goodies?

[05:56]

full sources: www.wavpack.com

[05:56]

no idea, i'll let you research that since it's your format. :)

[05:56]

using the tinydecoder, we don't have lossless output - wavpack correction files are not even taken into account

[05:57]

but, we have optimisation for ARM - and a small footprint

[05:57]

sorune: could i get you to compile the full sources, and compare performance?

[05:58]

daurnimator: i can compile it and give it to you to test since you have more input files (will that work?)

[05:59]

i would have more input files

[05:59]

but the variety is minimal

[05:59]

assuming you have more than 1 :)

[05:59]

- i encode mine with all the same settings ;)

[05:59]

i will

[06:00]

if you have the interest, here's a zip of heaps of different wavpack files - encoded with different settings: www.rarewares.org

[06:06]

i can take a look at that, but it'll be after i've investigated flac some more

[07:07]

* cr-tablet is away: passed out like... a programmer who hasn't slept since yesterday.

morning

even

ing

hey folks, anyone knows the max amount of memory we can allocate with kmalloc ?

[08:11]

i mean, on the OSD

[08:11]

or how to know what that limit i

is

comment spam fixed

srobertson: thanks

srobertson: isn't there a way to delete comments more than one a time ?

[08:43]

don't think so, but i'll check. the problem was with the spam filter, it needed to be upgraded, so we shouldn't get it in the future.

[08:43]

that's fine then. captcha style tests on submit of comments might also be nice

[08:44]

seems to be enabled... i'll check and make sure it didn't break either

[08:45]

ok, cool

[08:47]

captcha is deprecated, and we should upgrade, but we knew that already ;) i'll throw in a dev version and see what happens

[08:48]

with captcha i mean a system with image verification, not a specific module

[08:48]

we need a

[08:48]

"tick this box if you're not a spambot"

[08:48]

- our own making

[08:50]

or a "what is 1+1"

[08:50]

might also work for us, since we're not that big to be targeted by custom spambots

[08:50]

sure, totally agree; but our version of drupal is very outdated and unsupported, so not many modules are available outside of CVS snaps

[08:51]

why don't we update drupal?

[08:51]

daurnimator: it's coming, it's coming! ;)

[08:52]

i'm willing to do some of that if need be

[08:52]

drupal upgrades are not simple, and although I'm now getting 5 hours of sleep a night as opposed to 2...

[08:52]

the biggest thing is the theme.

[08:53]

can i chime in with "we need a new theme"

[08:54]

* srobertson quietly agrees

[08:54]

i can live with the current one until our man John makes a new one

[08:55]

hey, here's an idea: why don't we just switch to the new Drupal default until that happens, and then we can jump right on to 5.0?

[08:56]

try asking around to the higher ups, but i'm not really sure how soon that will happen

[08:56]

but maybe having a crappy default will encourage work on that

[08:57]

<daurn>

[23:52:59] <daurnimator> also "theme backwards compatability will not be an issue

[08:57]

<daurn>

[23:53:45] <daurnimator> AND, "all we need to keep are article details - title, content, comments, tags; images; and user accounts/details"

[08:58]

you're quoting yourself ?

[08:58]

<daurn>

yes

[09:00]

<[g2]>

nerochiaro, he _really_ meant it :)

[09:00]

<[g2]>

nerochiaro, congrats btw! :)

[09:01]

[g2]: oh, thanks

[09:01]

<[g2]>

nerochiaro, I finally got around to playing a little with xmltv data... it's pretty sweet

[09:01]

<daurn>

nerochiaro: i got d/c - wasn't sure if the msg got through

[09:02]

[g2]: yep, it has space for a lot of info, too bad most grabbers don't pick up most of it

[09:03]

<[g2]>

I'm just looking the na_dd stuff

[09:03]

<[g2]>

as that's where my TV is :)

[09:03]

<daurn>

srobertson: so, you are looking to upgrade to 5.1?

[09:03]

[g2]: where is that ?

[09:03]

<[g2]>

nerochiaro, that's the north american market

[09:03]

ah, ok. i suppose it has lots of details

[09:04]

<[g2]>

seems to have plenty

[09:04]

try the grabber for .it and feel sorry for us

[09:04]

daurn: yep, the 5.x series

[09:08]

* srobertson is away: class

[11:15]

<cr-tablet>

nerochiaro: it might be time for that busybox update

[11:15]

<cr-tablet>

nerochiaro: only they removed -r which is auto login

[11:15]

* cr-tablet is back.

[12:30]

crweb: what about that bbox update ?

[12:31]

<crweb>

might have these source problems fixed

[12:31]

<crweb>

they are on 1.4 now, and we are using 1.2.2.1

[12:33]

well, sorune pretty much explained to me how that works, and it does make sense to me. the bugs were in my head i think :)

[12:34]

<crweb>

ah

[12:36]

<crweb>

yeah /etc/profile is sourced automatically on shell startup

[12:36]

<crweb>

i was having the oposite trouble. couldn't manually source

[12:36]

<crweb>

but i admit, i didn't know that "source" was .

[12:37]

<crweb>

thats a big thing not to know.. but hey.. oh well

[12:38]

. sourcename

[12:42]

heh, i didn't know that until some time ago too

[12:48]

crweb: just to check i'm not completely mad. suppose i have in a driver a kmalloc followed by another kmalloc of the same amount. the second fails because out of memory (i suppose). if i comment out the first, the second should then work, no ?

[14:26]

<may1937_work>

cr-tablet: ping

[14:28]

<cr-tablet>

hey

[14:33]

<may1937_work>

hey can we talk soc for a min?

[14:37]

<cr-tablet>

yeah

[14:42]

<cr-tablet>

may1937_work: sorry bout that, don't know what happened

[14:55]

<cr-tablet>

Just posted flash/cramfs sizes measurements cramfs/bmp vrs cramfs/png

[14:55]

<cr-tablet>

to the mailing list

[14:56]

<cr-tablet>

original BMP size: 3.9 same image in png: 160k

[14:56]

<cr-tablet>

BMP in cramfs: 425k PNG in cramfs: 145k

[14:56]

<cr-tablet>

we need to switch to png's for sure

[14:57]

<nero_neuros>

cr-tablet: i think they committed some code today to have splash images loaded with gzip compression though

[14:57]

well, i guess the good news is that freenode hasn't gone away... the bad news is i can't connect to it from work. :-/ It's my own firewall, too, so I doubt that it's the problem...

[14:58]

<nero_neuros>

cr-tablet: i have a png loader for the splash screen ready, but it doesn't use libpng. and since we want to enable png in nanox, and that uses libpng, then i held it back until i have some time to rewrite it to use libpng

[14:58]

<cr-tablet>

nero_neuros: even with gzip, they are still +100k

[14:58]

<nero_neuros>

see above. i think it's a stopgap for now

[15:04]

* chreekat readies his pitchfork and looks up his isp's address

[15:05]

<cr-tablet>

chreekat: i'm having some strange issues here

[15:05]