Log from #neuros IRC channel

I'm using the term shortcut from user perspective. The ability to jump to a given location. If it 'technically' works different doenst concern me (not sure if this is what you are saying)

[01:25]

<crweb>

which is why spatial browsing was "supposed" to become popular (never caught on though because people expect desktop to act like internet (forward back etc)

[01:26]

<crweb>

yes, that is how i refer to "shortcut"

[01:26]

I'd debate the '2 folders deep' thing.

[01:26]

<crweb>

Apple doesn't lie

[01:27]

<crweb>

deep folders is a concept for people who understand tree structures

[01:27]

<crweb>

most people do not have the "file folder" concept

[01:27]

<crweb>

because a real filing cabinet doesnt have sub folders

[01:28]

right, right. I get what you are saying, but I know we will get complaints about 'forcing shallow tree structures' or 'tedious broswing"

[01:28]

verily, most people i know keep *all* their files on the desktop. many don't even know "my documents" exits

[01:29]

exists

[01:29]

<crweb>

hah

[01:29]

<crweb>

i was just typign that

[01:29]

<crweb>

"when you are a technician you find out that most people don't even know what a folder is, everything is on desktop"

[01:30]

I think those are some dangerous assumptions to make

[01:30]

<crweb>

there are many studies

[01:30]

<crweb>

its a huge GUI design topic

[01:30]

<crweb>

the next-gen gui isn't even suppose to have multi level folders

[01:31]

i don't want to go there. it's up to you John, i'm ok either way

[01:31]

shortcuts in main menu, no shortcuts, or a shortcuts folder

[01:31]

<crweb>

we can keep them. but the should be in a shortcuts folder

[01:31]

with the first as least preferred

[01:31]

I would like nothing better than to limit things, bu the fact is, thats not what we do

[01:32]

<crweb>

or an option to move to main list?

[01:33]

mind you, I'm more talking this through than stating a concrete opinion

[01:33]

<crweb>

i as well

[01:33]

<crweb>

i don't actually care. shortcuts anywhere cause the same design issue

[01:33]

<crweb>

err, same programming issue

[01:33]

<crweb>

which, i have to write in regardless because the "Media Cards" in the main list ARE shortcuts

[01:34]

crweb: don't dump programming issues on John

[01:34]

crweb: ;)

[01:34]

I mean, I can see how much more simple many issues would be if apps were limited to a given folder or two. want to view video? put it in the video folder. that sort of thing

[01:35]

<crweb>

no no, nobody would like that

[01:35]

<crweb>

definitely not what i'm saying

[01:36]

One aspect that is against the pure browsing is the remote control is not very responsive and the gui speed is limited also

[01:37]

<crweb>

which for really long list of folders shortcuts could help

[01:37]

<crweb>

shortcuts won't help with long lists of files in a folder though

[01:38]

for that we have pageUP/DN. its an issue that exists universally in media devices. Dont want long lists? make folders.

[01:38]

generally you have many folders when you have an album-artist or genre-movie tree structure, or you have a imperial ton of files in a single folder if you're the type that justs dumps the most popular singles in the "music" folder and be happy

[01:38]

sadly, most people are the latter type

[01:39]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: metadata in music managers is eliminating folder structure

[01:39]

even for videos

[01:39]

Id say especially for videos

[01:39]

tons of clips in the same folder. funny clips, random clips, that crap

[01:39]

music video s

[01:39]

it's really the same mentality as for music singles

[01:40]

dump them in a place, never categorize, never cleanup

[01:40]

<crweb>

all my mp3's and flac files are in 1 dir

[01:40]

so a larger issue is DB vs. playlist-type vs. file browsing - to find and play media

[01:40]

<crweb>

i use Amarok and iTunes to play

[01:41]

crweb: way to go when you change player or want to manage them on another device

[01:41]

but i guess i have the anal librarian syndrome, so don't mind me ;)

[01:42]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: i don't have any players that are non-metadata anymore..

[01:42]

<crweb>

cept for osd

[01:42]

even for video ?

[01:42]

<crweb>

oh, video folders are usually only 2 deep

[01:42]

crweb: hop on jabber please, i need to poke you there

[01:42]

<crweb>

Show/Season/File

[01:43]

well, anyway, not going to debate management policies

[01:43]

I really think if you ask 10 people their media playing tendencies, you will get 8 different answers. Also, what system we use is limited by HW and SW resources, so that seems to be a deciding factor more than preference

exactly

John, you nailed it

\0/

JohnDesigner: anyway, as i said, either way is ok, with shortcut items in the main menu as least favorable (because of clutter)

[01:54]

agreed on the clutter. I can support the assumption that typical usage will see only about 5 or less aliases

[01:54]

but not typical ? we let them clutter up ?

[01:55]

I suppose so. Alternative is to only allow max 5.

[01:56]

lets not put a cap on it for now

[01:56]

sure

[01:56]

crweb: you ok with that ?

[01:56]

and see what happens.

[01:57]

allright

[01:57]

<crweb>

I'm not sure what Im agreeing too

[01:57]

<crweb>

we are already going to have 5+ items in the menu

[01:57]

<crweb>

Network, and each media card

[01:57]

<crweb>

so +5 user shortcuts is going to be +10 or more main FB menu items

[01:58]

only two

[01:58]

or three if you cound CFcard

[01:58]

housing only allows one USB and one card

[01:58]

<crweb>

SD-Card1, CF-Card1, USB-Drive1, Network and if any of those cards have sub partitions

[01:59]

<crweb>

there is a multi port? SD and CF is not supported?

[01:59]

I was wondering about the CFcard, should that be open to user?

[01:59]

<crweb>

it should be open on the 1.1

[01:59]

but that would be TORFU no?

[02:00]

<crweb>

1.0 hardware no CF

[02:00]

initially on the CF-used-by-QT systems, the CF card will not be user-accessible

[02:00]

<crweb>

1.1 hardware yes CF

[02:00]

not according to Gao

[02:00]

it has a cover plate over it or something.

[02:00]

<crweb>

it shouldn't

[02:00]

<crweb>

that would be dumb

[02:01]

on 1.1 housing.

[02:01]

<crweb>

why block it if we don't use it?

[02:01]

alright, that should be one issue for meeting

[02:32]

crweb: I don't know why CF slot is blocked on 1.1, it may be due to a PCB issue. Or could be that I misunderstood Gao's answer.

[02:33]

<crweb>

ok... which meeting?

[02:36]

the one we're in ?

[02:38]

<crweb>

i didn't see him in there so wondered lol

[04:55]

we should just port xbmc to dfb ;p

[06:27]

Porting was considered, but outisde of the legal issues of porting any MC software, there is a limit to what remains after the port is stripped to run on OSD hardware.

[06:28]

i think his ";p" at the end explained much about how seriously we shuold've taken the suggestion ;)

[06:30]

sure, just trying to give the background that porting was actually considered at one time anyway :)

[06:30]

didn't even recall that

[06:31]

it wasnt a main point of discussion. Ended pretty quickly without serious danger of becoming a path

[06:33]

not surprisingly

[06:33]

as far as the MC's go, I like most of the latest Meda Portal

[06:34]

how they incorporate IMDB (or other movie info sites) was a pleasant surprise to me

[06:35]

looks nice, but never tried it

[06:39]

<daurn>

hey all

[06:39]

<daurn>

anyone around?

[06:39]

ya ?

[06:40]

<daurn>

whats new nerochiaro?

[06:41]

everything's fine with the universe, appearently

[06:41]

except you can't boot your machine

[06:41]

<daurn>

I found the correct hdd now :)

[06:41]

<daurn>

just.... its taken 3 hours on a fsck of my ntfs volumne

[06:41]

<daurn>

and I don't know how to tell it to skip or stop it

[06:42]

<daurn>

for the record, its 0,0 and (s|h)daf1

[06:44]

<daurn>

on second thoughts, it could be fat32

[06:44]

well, at least it works now

[06:45]

<daurn>

it still isn't booted

[06:45]

<daurn>

which is what I want/need :(

[06:45]

<daurn>

currently on my mother's laptop >.<

[06:46]

<daurn>

in other news, I just found out I got into university

[06:47]

yay. what kind of studies are you going to do ?

[06:48]

<daurn>

Bachelor of Science at the University of Melbourne (New Model)

[06:48]

<daurn>

I am hoping to do engineering

[06:48]

what kind of engineering ?

[06:49]

<daurn>

probably mechaical

[06:50]

<daurn>

but i don't have to decide for 2-3 more years

[06:51]

like you will be sitting on your arse in the meantime ?

[06:51]

gear lover ;)

[06:51]

a term of endearment that ID guys have for ME's

[06:52]

EE's are Sparkys

[06:52]

<daurn>

:P

[06:53]

i guess CS folks are simply Geeks ?

[06:53]

yup

[06:56]

<daurn>

this is what I got into: www.bsc.unimelb.edu.au

[06:57]

<daurn>

Will probably go BSc (Mechanical Systems) (3 years) then a masters in engineering (mechanical) (another 2 years for 5 in total)

[06:59]

<daurn>

Like this: www.eng.unimelb.edu.au

[07:06]

good luck then :)

[07:07]

<daurn>

heh

[07:08]

<daurn>

next phase in life starts

[07:08]

<daurn>

in the meantime.....

[08:01]

<an>

hello

[08:01]

hi

[08:02]

<an>

guys, r u developing soft for media top-boxes?:>

[08:03]

<an>

my first experience with irc

[08:04]

mostly we're developing software for one single media set top box, the Neuros OSD

[08:05]

<an>

exactly Neusos, can u tell me, what kind of chipset for media decoding Neuros is using?

[08:06]

all video decoding is done on a TI C54x DSP, audio decoding is done mostly on an ARM9

[10:55]

I really like the new "shortcuts". changed the little rc.user script to mount my network drives into the shortcuts

[11:08]

nerochiaro: thanks for the mail. I added a the config file to the patch as I tweaked a setting so last.fm worked better.

[11:09]

greyback: actually, i couldn't get it to work. shoutcast streams worked, but when i added a lastfm url it said it couldn't add it to the queue

[11:09]

what did you add to the config to make it work better ?

[11:10]

i want to leave config patch out, since we should not install that, to avoid overwriting settings

[11:10]

nerochiaro: Hmm, will svn up my trunk & check. I just extended the curl timeouts a little, last.fm servers seem a bit slow

[11:10]

That does make sense tho.

[11:10]

greyback: i didn't commit yet, i was trying to make it work before

[11:11]

Yeah, good job!

[11:11]

but so far it's not working, not sure what's making lastfm choke

[11:12]

You're adding something like lastfm://user/kamilsko/personal, yes?

[11:12]

something like that, i added a "similar to" url. let me try a personal url

[11:13]

nope, ERROR: ../src/xmms/xform.c:1273: Couldn't set up chain for 'lastfm://user/kamilsko/personal' (2)

[11:13]

login info should be ok, because before i didnt' use it and it compained about lastfm handshake

[11:14]

but now i have it and it gives just that erro

[11:14]

Yeah, I guessed that (that's a terrible error message)

[11:15]

anyway, i think i may commit anyway, at least shoutcast works. then you can maybe check with the #xmms2 folks what's happening

[11:15]

Right, give me a little time & I'll investigate, I'm not sure what's wrong. It did work when I tested it

[11:16]

no problem. going to leave for a couple hours. when i come back i'll do that commit

[11:16]

All right, thanks v much

[11:16]

thanks to you :)

[13:17]

nerochiaro: I don't understand why, but you're 100% correct, last.fm isn't working now.

[13:17]

I'm quite miffed!

[13:20]

greyback: i'm not sure what's happening either. it takes some time before saying it doesn't work, so it's doing something

[13:21]

greyback: worth maybe putting some trace debug message around and find out where it's going wrong

[13:22]

Yep. You mind holding off on that patch until I sort this out? (although shoutcast is working, and there ppl on the forums looking for that)

[13:22]

Pah, this worked 5 days ago!

[13:23]

bitrot 1

[13:23]

er !

[13:23]

i can simply commit the shoutcast part maybe ?

[13:24]

i think they are separate, no ?

[13:24]

or i can wait, you choose

[13:24]

i'm ok either way

[13:24]

It's all in the one diff file sadly.

[13:25]

i mean only some of the plugins are needed for shoutcast, no ?

[13:25]

curl and something else ?

[13:25]

(i don't have it under my eyes now)

[13:25]

Oh, yeah. Shoutcast needs curl and "icymetaint"

[13:25]

tis all

[13:27]

I'm really suspicious this is a last.fm problem. I'm running a netboot build I made 5 days ago that I know worked and nadaa. The pause feels like a timeout.

[13:27]

But let me check it out. There's no rush on this patch what so ever

[13:27]

that's strange, the embedded flash player seems ok

[13:27]

allright, i'll hold it then

[13:27]

let me know when you have something

[13:28]

Grand, sorry for the bother

[13:28]

absolutely no problem