[11:39]	<diafic>	wrong button
[21:47]	<JoeBorn>	hi all
[21:47]	<MattJ>	Howdy JoeBorn
[21:47]	<JohnDesigner>	hiya
[21:56]	<JohnDesigner>	anyone have a favorite uPnP app? I guess the right term is server.
[22:04]	<JohnDesigner>	tversity.com
[22:05]	<JohnDesigner>	is this one worthwhile?
[22:05]	<JohnDesigner>	I really know nothing about uPnP, so any advice is helpful
[22:07]	<MattJ>	I know nothing either
[22:09]	<JohnDesigner>	I can't even remember when or where I dl the app, but I discovered its been running by seeing it on the OSD
[22:10]	<JohnDesigner>	So now I'm trying to setup a library in it or at least use it a little.
[22:10]	<MattJ>	I believe uPnP is for streaming media, that's as much as I know :)
[22:11]	<JohnDesigner>	seems pretty easy so far even tho this is a beta app. therin lies the rub (possibly).
[22:11]	<MattJ>	btw, the beta group that was announced on the list & forums... is that equal to the beta mailing list which I am on?
[22:12]	<JohnDesigner>	an excellent question MattJ !
[22:12]	<JohnDesigner>	I have no idea
[22:12]	<JohnDesigner>	sorry
[22:12]	<Xorlev>	My recommendation is to disable any UPNP enabled routers immediately and never look back.
[22:13]	<Xorlev>	The upnp functionality that is.
[22:13]	<JohnDesigner>	oh Xorlev ? not a fan?
[22:14]	<Xorlev>	The fact that they can be used to exploit within a network is well know, but since it's your network, nobody else should be on it, right?
[22:14]	<Xorlev>	But then something like flash can talk to it from within your network and open it for taking over.
[22:14]	<Xorlev>	Quite easily too.
[22:14]	<JohnDesigner>	yeah, its a home network
[22:15]	<Xorlev>	www.gnucitizen.org
[22:15]	<JohnDesigner>	so upnp can be a security risk? does it also raise the likelyhood of gumming up the network?
[22:16]	<MattJ>	Wait a min
[22:17]	<MattJ>	I also know uPnP as a way for a device to ask a router to forward ports
[22:17]	<MattJ>	Is this uPnP == media streaming uPnP?
[22:19]	<Xorlev>	UPnP = universal plug in play used by media applications to open remote ports
[22:19]	<Xorlev>	eg azureus, msn, skype, etc.
[22:21]	<MattJ>	Then what is the "UPnP Browser" on the OSD for? Opening ports on my router? :)
[22:22]	<Xorlev>	different afiak but the content is relevant if you use a router w/ upnp
[22:23]	<vmarks>	upnp is not the same as upnpav.
[22:23]	<Xorlev>	sorry very sick, usually more cohrent..
[22:23]	<vmarks>	they're just confusingly named.
[22:23]	<vmarks>	because they both want to be universally plug and play.
[22:24]	<vmarks>	MattJ, the upnp browser on OSD is mis-named - it's a UPnPAV browser.
[22:24]	<MattJ>	Ah, rightio, that clears that confusion up :)
[22:25]	<MattJ>	Maybe it explained why I never found anything to stream UPnP then
[22:25]	<vmarks>	set up a upnpav server and away you go.
[22:26]	<Xorlev>	just remember your router is most likely vulnerable
[22:26]	<vmarks>	which is unrelated to audio video.
[22:26]	<Xorlev>	yes
[22:28]	<Xorlev>	Someone could steal your porn though
[22:28]	<Xorlev>	Then download more through your network
[22:31]	<Xorlev>	anyways 102 fever im out
[22:31]	<MattJ>	groups.google.co.uk
[22:31]	<MattJ>	So soon?
[22:32]	<vmarks>	wooble!
[22:32]	<MattJ>	wooble :)
[22:59]	<MattJ>	I'm going to sue Neuros for my lack of sleep :)