Log from #neuros IRC channel

hiya gremlin[it]

<gremlin[it]>

is not so bad ...

<gremlin[it]>

and isn't also too difficult to do by hand ....

<gremlin[it]>

not too difficult

<gremlin[it]>

are u planning to change it?

we are specifying the new hardware and I do NOT want a standard DB-9 connector

<gremlin[it]>

me to !

it takes up over 4x the space

<gremlin[it]>

in fact !

and just plain looks old

looks like old tech

<gremlin[it]>

yes!

[09:35]

* JohnDesigner sees that gremlin[it] is pickin up what I am puttin dowm

[09:35]

err,down

[09:36]

<gremlin[it]>

only thing isn't good for me is the power connector ... at least mine s too "weak" it slide off too easily :(

[09:38]

<gremlin[it]>

i 100% on your line about serial connector ...

[09:39]

the power plug will be the standard 2-prong

[09:39]

not the plug the OSD uses. This HW is dvd-player sized.

[09:41]

<gremlin[it]>

for me is good also the current one ... just use one from a different supplier :)

[09:41]

<gremlin[it]>

ahhhh ... bigger ... can u tell us something ?

[09:42]

<gremlin[it]>

can i have one in preview ?!?!? :D

[09:43]

<MattJ>

+1 about the serial port

[09:43]

<MattJ>

I like it the way it is

[09:43]

<MattJ>

+1 about the power supply

[09:44]

<MattJ>

The phono jack that goes into the back of the OSD, it literally disconnects if I so much as move the OSD 1cm

<MattJ>

It causes pain when unplugging the ethernet cable, or pushing in a memory card

JohnDesigner, by two prong, do you mean, figure 8 cord?

vmarks: yes

thank you.

why not the IEC kettle cord?

size?

[09:46]

it's what the chinese have on hand?

[09:46]

;)

[09:47]

ok, the only reason people use db-9 on pro equipment is to do remote control signalling between high end gear.

[09:47]

if that's not an OSD intention, then either don't have the connector, or don't expose it on the outside (you must pull covers if you want this port) -- populate it on the board standing vertical instead of 90 degrees.

[09:47]

the 3-prong plug was originally speced, but I objected on the basis that it "just seems big and computer-related" instead of an entertainment device related

JohnDesigner, that's a faulty objection.

perception of quality related in a round about sort of way

let's talk about that

except that the IEC connector is a higher quality.

<MattJ>

I assume that being unlucky I just got a bad transformer with a bad phono jack? :)

[09:49]

and it's a standard cable that everyone has.

[09:49]

figure eight is also mostly common, but not entirely - there are a few variants that are incompatible (one side of the figure eight is square, etc.)

[09:49]

also, the IEC has ground.

from the previous discussions, kettle cord does give you grounding over 2-prong, but grounding can be done internally

true.

actually, internal grounding is probably more desirable anyway.

but, the kettle cord plug and diameter is larger.

don't have to fool with people who have old outlets, etc.

in the new enclosure, is size really at a premium?

[09:51]

not on the enclosure, but pulling a relatively hefty cable out of the box seems unsavory to me.

In any event, I'm not that hung up on this one, but I think it's a mistake to connect either one to an impression of 'quality' - there are IEC cables that are sleek and flexible, and don't have the bulk annoyance you're thinking of.

not that this matters a great deal, but Tivo and aTV both use 2-prong

yes, they do.

so, either way.

but in aTV, they're trying to make size a premium.

DVD players (the ones I have anyway) use 2-prong

an IEC is higher than the whole device.

but tivo does not use size at a premium

[09:53]

they ground fromt he inside iirc.

[09:53]

yeah, but they've made a series of bad enclosure design choices.

[09:53]

their interface behavior is great. but don't take cues from them on enclosure.

anyway, next topic?

* vmarks doesn't make an issue of this.

as is mentioned "not that it matters a great deal"

So, the whole issue boiled down to the unboxing and assembly experience as it relates to perceived quality (to a non-geek primarily)

[09:56]

the ID is intending to be 'sleek and sexy', but has this husky plug with a relatively unruly cord.

[09:56]

these are minor things I would agree.

[09:57]

I'm just trying to keep the overall perception of quality on the 'scoresheet' wherever possible.

[09:58]

so, is the figure eight cable flat?

[09:58]

thank you for that.

[09:59]

the best thing is to handle the cables and decide in the dark.

[09:59]

MattJ: the unit moving when interacting with it (inserting cards, etc) will not be an issue with the new HW

[10:00]

vmarks: I hope it will be flat. and not have the inset line running down the axis like a lamp cord.

as reference, I think the aTV's power cord was +1 in an unexpected area

but that smooth type cord may be too expensive for us.

I don't know yet

<MattJ>

JohnDesigner: Good

[10:02]

<MattJ>

But is the power cord issue known, or is it just my unit?

[10:03]

MattJ: the power cord slipping is not without precedent.

[10:04]

two issues there

[10:04]

one, the jack is set back just a leeeetle to far from the housings outer face

[10:04]

two, sometimes the friction tab in the jack can bend a little.

[10:05]

<MattJ>

Yeah, wiggling the cord will make the OSD reboot

[10:05]

<MattJ>

Even though it doesn't visibly pull away from the socket

[10:06]

MattJ: if you want to fix that for good, get out a dremel tool and remove the plastic face around the hole

[10:07]

<MattJ>

lol, now why didn't I think of that?:)

[10:07]

well, you had no way of knowing that the plug is not bottoming out all the way into the jack due to the housing

[10:08]

bc it feels like it is bottoming out (but really the plug is just hitting the housing, not bottoming out into the jack)

[10:18]

MattJ: Can you easily find a 2.5mm (headphone size) serial cable?

[10:19]

<MattJ>

No idea, I only have the one that came with the OSD

[10:20]

see, the main functional sticking point for serial being either DB-9 or 2.5mm is whether Neuros supplys the cable or not

[10:20]

<MattJ>

I can see why they wouldn't

If a DB-9 is used, then no cable is supplied (thinking that a standard cable of this type is readily available)

<MattJ>

The current OSD lists it as a way to control external tuners, but I don't think that is possible atm, is it?

but you need to buy it

MattJ: no clue on that

[10:43]

Hi JoeBorn

[10:43]

JohnDesigner: how goes it?

JoeBorn: pretty well

and you?

hi JoeBorn !

welcome back!

JoeBorn: ATM, I am grunbling over seeing a male DB-9 serial connector in the spec

[10:44]

JoeBorn, my vote was to populate it but put it vertically inside the enclosure, so people who want to use it have to go for it.

[10:45]

and now trying to build a case (for the third time) to use a 2.5mm jack for serial

[10:45]

rather than a 90 degree with cutout on the back.

[10:46]

vmarks: was that your vote? i missed that

[10:46]

that was my vote.

[10:46]

it came right after we were talking about power cables.

well I think we'll have a heck of a time just fitting in the must have connectors.

* JohnDesigner laments the fact he needs to look at the keybord to type, misses things

use the real db-9, mount it on the board inside the enclosure, people who need it can pull covers.

most people won't, save the pennies cost on the 2.5mm to db-9 patch cable, etc.

vmarks: yeah, but that cosomization will not realiticlaly happen

err, customization

vmarks: it's not a bad idea (assuming we can fit that connector inside.

hey, I'm just some guy talking aloud :)

but anyway, I'm sure we won't have room for an external DB9 or whatver.

vmarks: true, sorry I blew up like that ;)

[10:49]

JoeBorn: we do have room for a DB-9 technically IF the proportions stay the same

JohnDesigner, I didn't think you blew up. We're all just talking.

JoeBorn: but the DB-9 will be the largest connector on the board, and add 1" to the length as compared to a 2.5mm jack

JohnDesigner: well I think we're going to have to go with a smaller extruded case

ala external hard drive.

[10:51]

vmarks: ya, I'm just joking, but have a hard time expressing that in type sometimes ;)

[10:52]

JoeBorn: Hmm, I don't get a warm fuzzy about an extrusion for this HW

[10:52]

JohnDesigner: perhaps you should try having more whiskey?

[10:52]

<gremlin[it]>

JoeBorn, hi !

<gremlin[it]>

JoeBorn, take a look wiki.neurostechnology.com

perhaps that will help with the warmth and fuzziness, both

gremlin[it]: will do.

no expertise in extrusions, Steel is heavy, aluminum is expensive, both will require a costly amount of after machining

[10:54]

JohnDesigner: yeah, well the external hard drive ones are pretty cheap

[10:54]

can we use pig iron?

that oringinal extruded design (where the front and back are open) is the only way I can see an extrusion working out okay. But that part is heavy and expensive.

jimmychen: hello

JoeBorn: what extruded external HDD housings do you have as reference?

JohnDesigner: well, we're ditching the second hdd

[10:56]

Joeborn: hello.

[10:56]

JohnDesigner: well I just have quotes from a couple of the ext hdd mfg

[10:56]

JoeBorn: ya, but that does not buy as much space as you might think. Well, one HDD will eliminate maybe 2" from the depth

[10:57]

really?

[10:58]

what's taking up so much space vis a vis an external hdd?

[10:58]

that is assuming the unit still wants to be stackable with DVDplayers and VCRs

[10:59]

JohnDesigner: no, I think we've ditched that constraint just out of necessity.

[10:59]

but actually no decisions on anything has been made

[10:59]

we need to talk about all that.

[11:00]

Or, if we go the "kinda small as possible" route, the biggest x/y/z component is the power supply.

[11:01]

yeah, the power supply.

[11:01]

and its related needs of cord space and distances internally. Unless a non-plasitc-housing PS is used.

[11:02]

right, that's a good issue.

[11:02]

JoeBorn: If there anywhere i could put my own application on Neuros WIKI ? I hope someone that take interest on it could join in.

[11:02]

JoeBorn: something similiar to sourceforge.net.

[11:03]

an application for the OSD?

[11:03]

JoeBorn: ya. i had port Bit torrent on osd.

[11:03]

JoeBorn: but still on the early stage, console interface only.

[11:04]

sure you can put it on the wiki

[11:04]

JoeBorn: if you are so inclined, you can open the 3d eDrawing I sent you, hide the housings, and pull around the components to get a rule of thumb idea of spacing.

[11:04]

just make sure that BT doesn't link to any of the illicit search engines

[11:05]

gremlin[it]: I'm reading about OE

[11:06]

<gremlin[it]>

JoeBorn, i just create the page but isn't linkged from enywhere ... someone who play/admin the wiki will put on the right place

<gremlin[it]>

JoeBorn, if (as i hope) be able to make it play video i'll carry my neuros at FOSDEM with me :)

jimmychen: add the link to wiki.neurostechnology.com

gremlin[it]: did you see my suggestion to MattJ earlier about how to fix your power cord issue?

<gremlin[it]>

no sorry JohnDesigner ...

FOSDEM?

<MattJ>

FOSDEM!

* MattJ will be there

<gremlin[it]>

free opensource developer european meeting

<gremlin[it]>

i'll be there as OpenEmbedded staff ;)

<gremlin[it]>

MattJ, goo so we'll meet !

ok, all, I have to attend my nephews birthday party

<MattJ>

gremlin[it]: You'll probably find me with the Jabber/XMPP guys :)

<MattJ>

bb JoeBorn

[11:09]

JoeBorn: got it .

[11:10]

gremlin[it]: Basically, take a dremel tool or similar, and cut away the plastic around the power jack.

[11:10]

gremlin[it]: then your power plug will fully insert and should be solid

[11:11]

<gremlin[it]>

ah ok thank JohnDesigner

[11:11]

gremlin[it]: as JoeBorn suggests, have some whiskey first to calm your nerves

[11:11]

<gremlin[it]>

uhhh why i have to calm down ?

[11:12]

gremlin[it]: in case using a tool that spins at 10,000 rpm on your beloved Neuros OSD is nerve wracking

listen. the proper procedure is this: drink 100 cups of coffee.

hold the dremel in its off position.

<gremlin[it]>

hahahah

your hand will move at 10k rpm due to the jitters

you'll go right through the case.

:)

[11:14]

all good ideas also!

[11:15]

you know, the other option is to take a pocketknife and shave the plastic around the barrel connector on the power tip down a little.

[11:16]

that's probably easier.

[11:26]

<gremlin[it]>

JohnDesigner, mhhh have to do the operation on the OSD case or on the plug ?

I say, plug.

easier.

you know, just remove the cover. :)

covers are for frou frou pretty boys.

:)

real men use their hardware BARE.

(note, the hardware is bare, not the men.)

[11:28]

(that is all.)

[11:37]

* JohnDesigner notes vmarks' freudian slip

[11:37]

<orion-uk_>

MattJ: Re: neuros OSD feedback: forums.neurostechnology.com check it out when ur free, are these ideas pos? ;-)

[11:38]

gremlin[it]: I do not know the exact contents of the plug, so stripping the rubber on the plug is up to you

[11:38]

but offhand that seems like an equally good solution

<MattJ>

orion-uk_: I believe you will see in-video bookmarks soon :)

<MattJ>

ie. play back from where you last watched to

<MattJ>

Isn't that so, JohnDesigner ?

<orion-uk_>

;-)

<orion-uk_>

cool

<orion-uk_>

ty

<MattJ>

and about FF/RW, I would like to see a way to skip back/forwards 5min

[11:41]

<orion-uk_>

just as accepable :)

[11:41]

<orion-uk_>

btw fyi.. i have had no issues with power cable! mine sits in nice n tight!

<MattJ>

Interesting

<MattJ>

Perhaps it was worse on the earlier ones

<orion-uk_>

must b so!

<MattJ>

Oh

<MattJ>

Also

<MattJ>

I have a US one, I guess you have a UK one?

they're all made in China.

<orion-uk_>

came from www.Maplins.co.uk so yah prb :)

<MattJ>

vmarks: *Everything* is made in China :)

it will never snow again inside my snow globe.

<orion-uk_>

k

MattJ, you weren't, were you?

<MattJ>

How would I know?

<orion-uk_>

Vmarks: aint that the truth..lol

[11:48]

<orion-uk_>

Mattj: was just thinking, if u gotta scrub 5min alot, (playback issues) where as if you move along the timeline (without showing fromes) then it plays from the time you stop at, would that have a better effect (or mot make much diff?)

<MattJ>

I don't think either would be different

<MattJ>

You have to do the same in each case

<MattJ>

Except with forward/back 5min the skip time is fixed

<MattJ>

You have sync problem with ff/rw?

<orion-uk_>

oh, ok, was not sure if it would be a dif process.. noob n all ;->

[11:50]

<orion-uk_>

yah.. if i go more than 8x-16x the movie starts to go outta sync.. does it even if i dont ff/rwd tbh, but ff/rwd makes it alot worse!

[11:51]

<MattJ>

Odd

[11:51]

<MattJ>

Never seen that :)

[11:52]

<orion-uk_>

could it be codec prob in the films ? (its on ones i have on my puta and transfer to OSD mainly but does happen with OSD recording aswell.

[11:53]

<orion-uk_>

movies some times do that kung fu thing on me..lol

what format?

avi divx?

mp4?

<orion-uk_>

xvid, divx, ffdshow etc

[11:53]

MattJ, orion-uk_ , yes, 'Resume' video from last watched position is planned for implementation soon. In-video bookmarks work now

[11:53]

<MattJ>

Great

[11:54]

<MattJ>

They were in but broken for quite some time

[11:54]

<orion-uk_>

jhondesigner: cool..ty.. can i save bookmarks..they seem to go when i stop the film!

[11:54]

MattJ: and to your request, a "jumpcode" feature is planned also. That means you could "jump to a specific place in the timecode"

[11:55]

orion-uk_: ya, the fact that the bookmarks diaapear after closing the video is a bug

[11:55]

being worked on

<MattJ>

JohnDesigner: Perfect!

MattJ: an undocumented feature, press a remote key to jump forward 30 seconds

it works now.

<orion-uk_>

i use tunebite to convert mostly, could it be error in conversion (for ones i have on puta?) but as for OSD recording going outa sync, no idea!

[11:57]

<orion-uk_>

Jhondesigner: k, ;-) cool, ty.

[11:57]

you are welcome ;)

[11:58]

hmm, what key was that 30 second skip. I think its the * key

[11:58]

or maybe # key. one of those iirc

[12:00]

* MattJ tries

[12:02]

<orion-uk_>

# works for me :)

[12:02]

then that is the one

[12:02]

<orion-uk_>

;)

[12:03]

now I remember...I made it that key bc it was on the right (to go along with a mental image of advancing the playhead on a horizontally linnear timecode meter)

and the * and # seem like 'variable' type keys

<MattJ>

:o

<MattJ>

#

<MattJ>

It works