Log from #neuros IRC channel

So much of the gui is based on what the HW can do, so I depend a lot on working hand in hand with devs (who have been busy with the basic functionality lately)

[13:20]

I hear that.

[13:21]

hmm, as I go a long, I'll try to float a pDF or two your way, but be warend its prolly some boring stuff

[13:21]

I'm okay with that.

[14:12]

<orion-uk>

Hi ppl :)

[14:13]

<orion-uk>

I have left some feedback on Arizona here: forums.neurostechnology.com feel free to post any comments and or corrections whenm you have time ok, thanx, and keep up the gr8t work :>

[15:05]

thanks Orion

[15:08]

Orion: Much of what you mention is being worked on. The screen transition speed and general stability should improve soon.

[15:09]

Orion: While I'm not the best person to comment on this, the Networking in AZ is "share only" (no live browsing your network)

[15:10]

Orion: however, I misnamed some of those terms in the GUI. Such as "Browse Network" and "map new shortcut". Those are not accurate.

[15:11]

Orion: however, the live network browsing that worked for you in TORFU, did not work well on the whole (as I am informed)

[15:13]

So the networking structure needed to change and I hope learning to interact with the new method (via shares only) doesn't cause you too much pain

[16:22]

<orion-uk_>

JohnDesigner: ty 4 ur comments... any further comments on why my mapped shortcuts seem to appear as disconnected after setting them up, resultinhg in me not being able to re-access them unless i delete the shortcut and create it again?

[16:28]

<orion-uk_>

Orion may look like he is here but he is away!... global away set in Konversation but for some reason Orion still shows as available! I did login on my laptop (but since disconnected) but it still shows me as online!!!... sorry about this! will be away untill morining now (after 9am GMT) ty all and see you all alter :)

[16:31]

Orion: I'm not sure about the disconnected/connected behavior. nerochiaro or crweb could answer that better than I.

[16:32]

orion-uk_

[16:32]

<Orion>

rotflmao@myself!... ignore last comment, my other pc was logged in and minimised..lol

[16:32]

heh okay

[16:32]

<Orion>

Hi JohnDesigner..

[16:32]

<Orion>

:)

[16:32]

<Orion>

still here :)

[16:33]

Orion: iirc, the "Shares" as they are now called (was shortcut), are disconnected by default, but don't quote me on that

[16:34]

either way, selecting XIM->reconnect should initiate a reconnection attempt.

[16:35]

<Orion>

letme just try that..

[16:35]

How does XIM work in Qt? Create a context menu?

[16:35]

an enhancement to this behavior is being worked on. That is, when you highlight a disconnected share, pressing enter should initiate a reconnection attempt.

[16:37]

blanktheMattJ: not sure how to phrase how it works (i have no code skills). But each list item in the XIM is 'drawn' (?) by each app.

[16:37]

Oops

[16:37]

<Orion>

ok.. so i press >i< and choose connect share?...this does nothing, do i misunderstand you?

[16:37]

<MattJ>

:P

[16:37]

* JohnDesigner notes that probably was no help to MattJ

[16:37]

<Orion>

hi MattJ :)

[16:37]

Orion: let me try it. just a sec

[16:37]

<MattJ>

Not quite

[16:37]

<Orion>

k

[16:37]

<MattJ>

JohnDesigner: I'll poke crweb :)

[16:37]

<Orion>

ty

[16:38]

<MattJ>

Hi Orion :)

[16:38]

MattJ: that is a good plan :P

[16:41]

<Orion>

:) ah...some success.. >i< + connect share works on some shares but not all!

[16:42]

Orion: yeah, I had the same experience. One of two mapped shares will connect.

[16:43]

Orion: Unfortunately I have no clue why. I just re-mapped the share that would not connect and it connects fine now.

[16:43]

<Orion>

am being asked for a password to connect to some shares on my xp laptop but not others! dont have a pw setup!

[16:44]

<Orion>

am doing the same right now ..lol ;-)

[16:45]

Orion: it would be appreciated if you could collect these issues and submit a bug report or talk to crweb or nerochiaro as they would be able to help you

[16:46]

Orion: i fear I would be wasting your time due to my lack of tech knowledge

[16:46]

<Orion>

no prob, thanx 4 ur imput, will do that once I have had a chance to take a proper look, just to make sure the bugs ARE bugs and not me being a half wit..lol

[16:47]

<Orion>

ur wasting no ones time here buddy ;-)

[16:47]

<Orion>

ty 4 ur help :)

[16:47]

You are very welcome :)

[16:47]

<Orion>

:)

[16:48]

Orion: one possibility is that the issue with the share not connecting could be on the computer end, not the OSD. 9again, this is a guess :))

[16:49]

<Orion>

may be so, but i can access the shared folders to/from my other computers :)

[16:49]

hrmm

[16:50]

yep, nero or crweb are your salvation ;)

[16:51]

<Orion>

one thing i have notice is that a share named without spaces connects (reconnects) fine, one with spaces or longer names wont reconnect, my be nothing maye be worth noting!

[16:51]

<Orion>

will leave it for now...

[16:52]

<Orion>

anyways, better let you get on with what ever you was doing, thanx 4 ur time ;)

[16:57]

Orion: that could have something to do with it.

[16:57]

Orion: no problem at all. Just bring me your findings and I will *try* to help anyway I can

[17:00]

<Orion>

JohnDesigner:ty V-much :))

[17:01]

<Orion>

after deleting the last of shares that would not reconnect (kept working ones) my OSD froze..lol...rebooting :)

[17:18]

Orion: that freezing is JoeyBorn's fault. He insists that the unit freezes every once an a while to build suspense and remind you, the valued user and contributor, of how precious life is

[17:20]

<Orion>

lol... and i thought it was just another chance to contemplate my place in existance! :p

[17:20]

that as well

[17:21]

those two notions, as are all things in the universe, are connected (or in this case...disconnected :D)

[17:22]

<Orion>

rotflmao ...my mum always said i was disconnected from reallity..guess she was right :P

[17:23]

:)

[17:24]

<Orion>

a joke in its self as shes 63 and spends most of her day playing unreal or quake 3 online!

[17:25]

<Orion>

hhhmmm... did u read the part in my post about recordings no longer failing? well, just had my first failed attempt :(

[17:26]

<Orion>

been recording fine all day and evening!

[17:27]

sorry to hear that

[17:28]

if it keeps up or you notice a pttern, please make a bug report

[17:28]

err.. pattern

[17:29]

<Orion>

it came and whent in phases with old fw, will give it a few more test b4 i do a bug report.

[17:29]

<Orion>

:)

[18:47]

hi Xorlev

[18:47]

Hey vmarks.

[18:51]

We can get you setup today if you're ready.

[18:53]

ok

[18:53]

let's do it.

[19:05]

vmarks: Give it a try. vmarks-tmp. I kept your pubkey.

[19:30]

Xorlev, works. I'm uploading.

[19:31]

sometime tomorrow (really, eta is somewhere around 4 hours) make it availble to joeborn, ok?

[19:31]

Sure thing, I'll check it in a couple

[20:16]

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: i replied

[20:16]

thanks, I read it

[20:17]

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: i think i'm saying what you want IS how it should be

[20:18]

crweb: yeah, pretty much.

[20:20]

crweb: all of the specific terms and their related concepts are very tricky. For me at least.

[20:20]

<crweb>

well, a "shortcut" is just a file that says Path = Location

[20:20]

sure, I fully understand that.

[20:21]

what I was missing this time was..

[20:22]

that one can make a shortcut from within a mapped share. Ya, that may seem unbelievable, but

[20:23]

I'm caught in the middle of operating the system and designing for newbs.

[20:23]

crweb: anyway, I get it

[20:23]

<crweb>

i see. well, Linux doesn't know the difference between the USB and the Network once it is "mounted"

[20:23]

k

[20:23]

I do understand that also (heh, you told me it enough times :))

[20:25]

So my advice to someone new to the AZ networking structure, if they want it to have "fake live browsing" as I would call it, is to share the highest level of their computer's drive that contains OSD usable media.

[20:26]

then navigate within that to make their "shortcuts"

[20:27]

* JohnDesigner very much rues the day he suggested "shortcuts" and "mapped shares" be same name

[20:27]

<crweb>

I wouldn't recommend that

[20:27]

<crweb>

the user can make Many shares

[20:27]

i know

[20:27]

<crweb>

Music, Video, Files, etc

[20:27]

<crweb>

so shortcuts wouldn't even be needed if they shared the highest level

[20:28]

<crweb>

shortcuts would really only be practical if they shared a very deep share

[20:28]

<crweb>

like, C:/files

[20:28]

<crweb>

and they want files/toms-storage/artists/mp3storage/Music

[20:30]

yup, understood. Seems we are thinking the same thing, but I am prolly not being articulate enough

[20:30]

<crweb>

whats really going to blow your mind is

[20:30]

<crweb>

they can link to files

[20:31]

<crweb>

Play.Browse -> MyVideo can be USB/Somestuff/Matrix.avi

[20:31]

Honestly, I do get this system. The last peice of my confusion was cleared up with your email.

[20:32]

<crweb>

sweet :)

[20:33]

what I have trouble with is how to design or structure the GUI so an non-tech person could catch on in a short amount of time.

[20:33]

well, the GUI will be pretty much as it is, I don

[20:33]

t have any changes in mind

[20:34]

<crweb>

I still have live browsing and usage in mind

[20:34]

but the fact that it took me so long to get it kinda scares me. However, I may be in the minority there

[20:34]

<crweb>

i'm attempting to get the media system to take sharing URL's

[20:35]

<crweb>

well you are trying to design+understand

[20:35]

<crweb>

not really trying to use

[20:35]

crweb: sure, future improvements are great, but I can accept the current method based on the benefits vs resources alone.

[20:35]

<crweb>

you cannot design a system on top of a system that is not understood

[20:35]

I shift back and forth between 'use' and 'design'

[20:36]

right, I am not doing that

[20:36]

<crweb>

i tend to go with the apple way

[20:36]

<crweb>

they seem to produce the most usable gui's in the industry

[20:37]

<crweb>

even though they are completely limited and hinder advanced usage

[20:38]

I'd be fine with going the apple way.

[20:38]

* JohnDesigner deletes play.Browse function

[20:38]

<MattJ>

:o

[20:40]

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: my custom gui doesn't use playbrose either

[20:40]

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: want to play videos, you open the video app, and select files/playlists

[20:40]

hi all

[20:43]

daurnimator: hello

[20:44]

<crweb>

howdy

[20:47]

<crweb>

oh damn

[20:47]

<crweb>

Did you make that new logo?

[20:47]

<crweb>

for app startup, or did nero throw that together?

[20:48]

nero made it as a placeholder until I get to it. but we riffed together on the "show silly messages" part.

[20:49]

<crweb>

wow

[20:49]

crweb: A ShareName cannot have a ":" in it, is that correct?

[20:49]

<crweb>

just without busy hint FB started in like 2 sec

[20:49]

<crweb>

yes, correct

[20:50]

okay

[20:50]

hmm

[20:50]

I'd like to use a suggestion nero made about the "default sharename" being constructed from machine name and share name

[20:51]

<ServerName>: <ShareName> as the default for newly mapped shares.

[20:51]

but obviously the : will not work

[20:52]

hmm maybe ".."

[20:52]

JohnsLaptop..JohnnysVideoFolder

[21:03]

" - "?

[21:03]

" -> "

[21:04]

<MattJ>

crweb: What happens when you press the XIM key in AZ? It creates a context menu?

[21:16]

<Cymor>

JohnDesigner: Tom Bruno asked me to ask you to call him.

[21:19]

Cymor: thanks, I just spoke with him

[21:19]

<Cymor>

np

[21:20]

to all: Crweb is back in the stone age and will be unavailable for a while.

[21:20]

a power substation blew up near his house, so he is without electricity.

[21:23]

<MattJ>

Oops :)

[21:27]

nerochiaro: ping. see my above message about Tom

[21:40]

really?

[21:45]

MattJ: you there?

[21:45]

<MattJ>

JoeyBorn: Replying to both your emails :)

[21:45]

<MattJ>

Sent

[21:45]

<MattJ>

`

[21:45]

<MattJ>

*1

[21:46]

well, believe it or not, I actually had some other questions *in addition* to those :)

[21:48]

<MattJ>

:)

[21:51]

vmarks: so i see that aTV went with a dual-list popup menu as their main menu in the latest update

[21:51]

interesting

[21:51]

hey again all

[21:52]

anyone want to help me buy a laptop?

[21:52]

I want something small, 12" screen

[21:52]

* MattJ votes Toshiba

[21:52]

<MattJ>

But someone I know votes Lenovo

[21:53]

I was seriously looking at the Lenovo x61

[21:53]

daurnimator: I can instruct you about the process, but have no funds to offer ;)

[21:53]

but I'd like a touchpad

[21:53]

JohnDesigner: haha, I just need help choosing one

[21:53]

I've heard good things about the Asus eee

[21:53]

and probably someone to send via in the usa

[21:53]

JohnDesigner: no thanks :P I want something I can type on

[21:53]

* MattJ too, but I heard there is a new model soon

[21:53]

btw, 12" screen please

[21:54]

<MattJ>

So I'll either get that, or get one of the current models cheaper :)

[21:54]

I have a ginormous Asus G2s and I love it thus far.

[21:54]

so I am saying give Asus a look

[21:55]

I was wary of the brand at first, but I ended up with much more machine for the same $ as the other brands

[21:56]

I don't really know much bout lappys

[21:59]

asus website SUCKS

[21:59]

MattJ: I get a lot of "no config file found, skipping configuration" is that normal?

[22:00]

<MattJ>

JoeyBorn: Yes, it's fine

[22:01]

<MattJ>

Later on it will ask you questions during setup

[22:01]

<MattJ>

All the code is there for it, but I haven't made a package that uses it

[22:02]

nothing at asus really catches me

[22:02]

whats next? toshiba?

[22:03]

* MattJ has a Toshiba

[22:03]

JohnDesigner: are you in the usa?

[22:03]

<MattJ>

Works fine, Intel chipset

[22:09]

:( x61 is only 1024x768

[22:09]

do you get much bigger res in laptops?

[22:10]

I think my mother's dell is about 1440x1000

[22:10]

* MattJ 1280x768

[22:10]

<MattJ>

or maybe 800

[22:14]

MattJ: well, I asked bagster this question and I'll ask the same thing to you

[22:14]

this "project" that we're talking about combing bagster and your work into

[22:14]

what do you think the scope of it is?

[22:14]

web control of the OSD?

[22:14]

more? less?

[22:15]

<MattJ>

About that

[22:15]

<MattJ>

XMMS, package manager, etc. modules are in the works

[22:15]

<MattJ>

But I am concentrating on the Qt GUI for lpkg at the moment

[22:16]

well, I guess I'm thinking about a little PR push for this iPhone universal remote hack.

[22:16]

<MattJ>

I think that would be good :)

[22:17]

and I want to create a page that we can point people to

[22:17]

<MattJ>

If we can make the IR blaster more flexible, it is more than web control of the OSD

[22:17]

<MattJ>

Web control of any IR devices

[22:17]

so they can (hopefully) join in the fun and its important to have that definition to know if it interests them.

[22:18]

well, I'm wondering if it's more or *different*

[22:18]

should they be one single project or perhaps two?

[22:18]

<MattJ>

Hmm

[22:19]

<MattJ>

Development-wise they are about the same (would use the same system)

[22:19]

<MattJ>

So it is up to you

[22:20]

"system?"

[22:21]

<MattJ>

via the web (presumably)

[22:21]

well, that raises a second question, regarding web technologies

[22:22]

"webkits"

[22:22]

"java"

[22:22]

I have no idea what all this means other than it seems

[22:23]

1. we have to choose some and not others

[22:23]

2. holy war will surely ensue no matter what

[22:23]

<MattJ>

My web interface is using AJAX, if that helps :)

[22:23]

3. deep dispair and gloom seem likely thereafter

[22:24]

<MattJ>

You passed fairly lightly over a holy war already... you switched the GUI to Qt

[22:24]

does the iPhone support ajax? I would assume so since isn't that what google maps use?

[22:24]

<MattJ>

Yes, so I am using it in moderation, and only with fail-over to standard methods

[22:24]

<MattJ>

I don't know

[22:25]

well, regrettably not enough people yet care about Neuros to really have a holy war.

[22:25]

<MattJ>

I care :)

[22:25]

<MattJ>

But I cared enough to *not* join in any holy wars :)

[22:25]

<MattJ>

Instead I learnt to develop in Qt :)

[22:26]

well, you statistically you need a larger base to create the intersection of a variety of things to have a holy war.

[22:26]

<MattJ>

I think I read on the forum someone said something about Java

[22:26]

<MattJ>

I didn't quite understand

[22:26]

<MattJ>

I wouldn't let anything written in Java near my OSD

[22:26]

I see.

[22:27]

<MattJ>

Unless I really hated it :)

[22:27]

well, so anyway, ajax works well on the iPhone...

[22:27]

<MattJ>

Java tends to claim all resources (memory, etc.) for its own

[22:27]

<MattJ>

That's great

[22:27]

<MattJ>

I can make the web interface a lot smoother if I use AJAX

[22:28]

sorry, it was a question, but the wooble i just installed seems to work ok

[22:28]

I'll send some screen shots, et

[22:28]

ajax is evil!

[22:28]

<MattJ>

Great :)

[22:28]

it ate my baby

[22:28]

<MattJ>

daurnimator: No it's not... it's over-hyped :)

[22:28]

daurnimator: take your medication!

[22:29]

daurnimator: everything will be ok, please take a deep breath.

[22:29]

seems to work ok on the iPhone...

[22:29]

btw, I have an iphone if you want me to test somethign

[22:30]

although I'm getting some errors, not sure if they are any conflict with what I did to install bagsters thing

[22:30]

<MattJ>

What errors?

[22:30]

forums.neurostechnology.com

[22:30]

but 192.168.2.192

[22:30]

is giving me

[22:30]

Content-type: text/html

[22:30]

Error running script!

[22:31]

<MattJ>

Ah yes, schedules not working (I actually disabled it)

[22:31]

ok

[22:31]

<MattJ>

The method used on the current firmware is useless

[22:32]

<MattJ>

It requires you restart the OSD after updating the schedules, and the specifics of the file format is unknown to anyone outside of China :)

[22:32]

MattJ: isn't it 5:30am or something there?

[22:33]

if I upgrade my osd from the menu, will I have all this cool web remote stuff?

[22:33]

<MattJ>

So I will get it working on AZ, when I get to try that

[22:33]

yeah, I caught that.

[22:33]

<MattJ>

JoeyBorn: 4:30 :)

[22:33]

ok, well don't wait up for me

[22:33]

don't you have access to AZ?

[22:33]

I thought they even made some UPKs for it?

[22:34]

<MattJ>

I do, but I wasn't sure if it was working with PAL yet

[22:34]

oh, no idea

[22:34]

about that

[22:34]

ok talk to you all later

[22:35]

<MattJ>

daurnimator: No, it's not on the firmware yet

[22:35]

<MattJ>

You can install it with the package manager, which hopefully will be on the firmware before long

[22:36]

haha

[22:36]

so, how do I use/test it?

[22:37]

<MattJ>

Package manager: groups.google.com

[22:37]

<MattJ>

Web interface: groups.google.com

[22:41]

you mean I actually have to goto my osd?

[22:42]

<MattJ>

No, you use telnet :)

[22:45]

tp put an sd card in?

[22:48]

<MattJ>

daurnimator: Well you need some kind of storage

[22:49]

<MattJ>

Doesn't have to be a card

[22:49]

<MattJ>

But it must be mounted while you want to use any of the apps that you install

[22:50]

nfs?

[22:59]

I think I'm an idiot, but whats wrong?

[22:59]

$ sudo cat /home/daurnimator/exports >> /etc/exports

[22:59]

bash: /etc/exports: Permission denied

[22:59]

<MattJ>

You're not an idiot

[22:59]

<MattJ>