Log from #neuros IRC channel

well i heve issues creating toolchain (from neuros sources) inside OE ... i resolver some "compatibility" issues ... i resolver arm softfloat issue ... but sill have some toubel with some unwind symbols not defined in libgcc

[02:42]

<crweb>

i saw nothing like this in crosstool.

[02:42]

<crweb>

i ran into 2 issues

[02:42]

<crweb>

#1, i had to disable gdb because undefined symbols in libgcc

[02:43]

<crweb>

#2, glibc-2.3.6 wouldn't build because of a string parse error

[02:43]

<gremlin[it]>

what i don't understand is how crosstool a couple of bug present in glibc ... for example a non defined ISA symbol (related to ioperm funciotns) ...

[02:43]

<crweb>

it was a stupid error, probably in the glibc sources that prevent compile. When compiled failed, I went in manually changed the string (added a ") and then restarted crosstol. Completed success

[02:44]

<gremlin[it]>

i didn't compile gdb so maybe i didn't find the error ...

[02:44]

<crweb>

when gdb failed, i started over

[02:44]

<crweb>

i had to disable it

[02:44]

<gremlin[it]>

strange the string error didn't face to me ...

[02:45]

<crweb>

it was odd. Non terminated string, in a file that glibc generates itself

[02:45]

gremlin[it]: maybe you're using a different distribution or tools

[02:45]

<crweb>

I first used slackware 12

[02:45]

it seems some issues are dependent on the version of some base tools (like sed etc..)

[02:45]

<gremlin[it]>

do you remember the symbols and file/line number of string error ?

[02:45]

<crweb>

then after figuring out how to compile. I compiled on Ubuntu x86_64 7.1

[02:45]

<crweb>

it was something in a "version" file

[02:46]

<crweb>

i will see if i can find

[02:46]

<gremlin[it]>

i'm working on a Fedora8 (x86_64)

[02:46]

<crweb>

gremlin[it]: it was a file glibc gernerated itself during build

[02:47]

<crweb>

i don't have it anymore, but if you attempt to build in crosstool, disable gdb and you will encounter the error

[02:47]

<gremlin[it]>

but OE build many native tools to be independent from host distro ... but sincerelly i don't remember which one ...

[02:47]

<gremlin[it]>

ah ok

[02:48]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: ld is now enabled patch. please take a quick look over that patch real quick before i commit, i had some svn issue

[02:49]

crweb: ok, one moment

[02:50]

crweb: how big can that cache get ?

[02:50]

did we check ?

[02:51]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: my PC with x86, AND x86_64 together is 100k

[02:51]

<crweb>

and i have just about every lib you can think of installed

[02:52]

<crweb>

current ld.so.cache on OSD is 8k

[02:52]

go ahead with that patch then

[02:54]

<crweb>

alright

[02:54]

<crweb>

its in

[02:55]

thanks

[02:58]

<crweb>

i'm still haven't 2nd thoughts about removing rpath

[02:58]

you do or you don't ?

[02:59]

<crweb>

err

[02:59]

<crweb>

wow, that was an interesting sentence

[02:59]

<crweb>

I'm still having 2nd thoughts about removing rpath

[03:02]

why ?

[03:02]

<crweb>

font, plugin, and translation search paths

[03:02]

font shouldn't need rpath, are they .so ?

[03:03]

<crweb>

the whole system uses rpath for locations

[03:03]

<crweb>

its how qt knows to look in qtopia/lib/fonts

[03:03]

<crweb>

if there is no "config file"

[03:03]

<crweb>

but, the problem i'm running into is that the "config file" is per app

[03:04]

<crweb>

/usr/local/bin/qt.conf will "hold us over", but any other application in any other place won't know where to find Qt

[03:04]

<crweb>

the user would have to copy the qt.conf into the same dir as the bin file

[03:05]

<crweb>

i agree, its all stupid as hell

[03:05]

ah, ok, i was about to say that. if it's QT's fault, people will adapt

[03:06]

we should not take care of QT's problems

[03:09]

<crweb>

I'll get back to you about it

[03:09]

ok

[03:09]

<crweb>

we need to find out what /var/shm is though

[03:10]

<crweb>

strace is coming in very handy finding things that don't exist that we may need

[03:14]

<crweb>

ahh, you want to see something neat ?

[03:14]

<crweb>

/tmp/qtembedded-0/fonts

[03:14]

<crweb>

font sharing is working

[03:14]

<crweb>

it wants to use the kernel's shm suppor though, and falls back to fontdb in /tmp

[03:17]

shm, shared memory

[03:17]

we support it

[03:17]

<crweb>

"device not found"

[03:17]

probably need to create the device

[03:17]

in rootfs

[03:17]

<crweb>

ah

[03:17]

<crweb>

guess i'll try to find it

[03:18]

/tmp is in tmpfs anyway, no ? so it's memory anyway

[03:18]

<crweb>

i dunno the difference...

[03:18]

<crweb>

well, i mean, i know the difference

[03:19]

<crweb>

just not in relation to which is better. Qtopia tries to mount /var/shm, and when it fails, falls back to /tmp

[03:20]

you have probably more control and less overhead with the device

[03:20]

my concern is that we are then using two memory areas, one for tmpfs an one for the fonts shm, but it should be ok

[03:20]

<crweb>

at the cost of allocating more memory from the system?

[03:20]

yeah

[03:20]

that's what i wanted to say

[03:20]

<crweb>

well, tmpfs memory isn't used unless there is data present

[03:21]

ah, ok. then it's the same

[03:21]

<crweb>

you can create a 600mb "tmpfs"

[03:21]

i thought it was reserving it

[03:21]

<crweb>

but if only .5k is used, thats all that exists

[03:22]

ok. but try to see if you can creat that device anyway. it may come in handy for other things

[03:22]

<crweb>

there are some "rules" on that, but i don't know them most of the time everything assumes you have more than 16mb, and discs are usually 16mb

[03:23]

<crweb>

ahh

[03:23]

<crweb>

www.cyberciti.biz

[03:25]

i see. so we can really just let it fallback in our case

[03:25]

<crweb>

yeah, i'd say its the same thing

[03:25]

<crweb>

qtopia must try to mount it to make sure it exists

[03:25]

<crweb>

but our /tmp is already tmpfs

[03:25]

the only thing we should keep an eye on is how much space does it take and that it doesn't fill tmpfs too much

[03:25]

<crweb>

which isn't the case on desktops

[03:26]

<crweb>

we are still fin on tmpfs

[03:26]

<crweb>

256k allocated 60 k used

[03:26]

<crweb>

neat, so we "accedently" enabled font sharing via shared mem

[03:26]

60K including fonts

[03:26]

?

[03:26]

<crweb>

yeah

[03:27]

are you sure qt apps are actually using it ?

[03:27]

automatically

[03:27]

<crweb>

yes

[03:27]

<crweb>

all apps will use the fontdb

[03:27]

<crweb>

part of the font factory

[03:28]

pls check my reply to trolltech cache in patch email

[03:29]

<crweb>

commit was clean

[03:29]

<crweb>

that was the strange stuff i was talking about

[03:32]

what strange stuff ? i must have lost something

[03:32]

<crweb>

when i said earlier to double check patch cause svn was being weird

[03:32]

oh ok

[03:32]

<crweb>

open("/tmp/qtembedded-0//fonts//fontdb", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 9

[03:32]

<crweb>

stat64("/tmp/qtembedded-0//fonts//fontdb", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=1755, ...}) = 0

[03:32]

<crweb>

fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=1755, ...}) = 0

[03:32]

<crweb>

mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40017000

[03:33]

<crweb>

there you go

[03:33]

<crweb>

hard proof, all apps check the font db

[03:33]

it's not being weird, you probably did an svn diff on /roofs/base and you had some cruft from CIFS work in there. be sure to svn revert these files if they should not be there

[03:33]

ok for the font

[03:33]

<crweb>

now, font sharing isn't going to work if every app uses all 30 available sizes

[03:34]

<crweb>

err, work as well

[03:34]

<crweb>

if app 1 and app 2 don't use any of the same sizes, then the cache is useless.

[03:34]

<crweb>

which is something I'm seeing between main-menu and browser

[03:35]

talk to John, have him known this issue, so he can direct people to use only an handful of approved font sizes

[03:35]

he's the man for tha

[03:35]

that

[03:39]

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: ping ;)

[03:40]

<crweb>

theres no way he's still up

[03:40]

<crweb>

its valentines day.. that dude better be... *busy*

[03:40]

valentine ? wasn't it yesterday ?

[03:41]

<crweb>

well "tonight"

[03:41]

oh, right

[03:41]

<gremlin[it]>

nerochiaro, you should be busy too ...

[03:41]

<crweb>

he has a cat

[03:42]

gremlin[it]: it's also 10 in the morning

[03:42]

and it's 15th here

[03:42]

crweb: actually, three cats

[03:42]

<gremlin[it]>

but you was on-line yestarday night at 10-11 pm :D

[03:42]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: because thats better?

[03:42]

* gremlin[it] think ... too much cat ...

[03:42]

gremlin[it]: i was eating chocolate. does that count as valentine-day-busy ?

[03:42]

;)

[03:43]

<crweb>

i make every day valentines day

[03:43]

crweb: no, i was just letting you know it's not one, it's three

[03:43]

<gremlin[it]>

depend on where the chocolate was over :P

[03:43]

<crweb>

which is why i'm utterly broke...

[03:43]

gremlin[it]: :D

[03:44]

crweb: you mean you eat tons of chocolate everyday ?

[03:44]

<crweb>

heh, ironically enough.. Dentist is actually why i am broke.....

[03:45]

<crweb>

still have 1 tooth to canal and cap.

[03:45]

<crweb>

thats like 2k each (had 3 of them

[03:45]

* nerochiaro hands over to Tom a power drill. save some money

[03:46]

<crweb>

don't wait 4 years to get a cavity fixed

[03:46]

* crweb was lazy, waited till pain started

[03:49]

get checked once an year or so and bugs in your theeth as soon as they come out

[03:49]

seems to work

[03:49]

it costs less than waiting, anyway

[03:50]

<crweb>

definitely

[03:50]

<crweb>

what happened was, they found them after i went off parents insurance

[03:50]

<crweb>

couldn't afford to fix

[03:53]

dentists+insurance=evil

[04:13]

<crweb>

ljp: welcome

[04:21]

<crweb>

how long has the ladybug/neuros logo been in bugzilla? am i just that blind?

yes, you have

er, you are

ah

since before I joined

[04:28]

at least 2 years

[05:06]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: picasaweb.google.com

[05:06]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: my week so far.

[05:07]

<crweb>

photo #10, tree branch froze to fence

[05:09]

that branch is truly eerie

[05:09]

but the icicles on the car are even more so

[05:09]

<crweb>

that broom is frozen into the bed of my truck

[05:10]

i'm so glad it's almost spring warm here

[05:10]

<crweb>

our power substation blew up

[05:10]

<crweb>

that was... interesting

[05:10]

ya, John told me

[05:10]

<crweb>

thought a car slammed into our house

[05:10]

<crweb>

its 3 blocks away

[05:11]

<crweb>

solved our power issues though

[05:11]

these things are really fragile, it's not the first time i hear of one blowing up down there. also saw a video on YT, it's scary.

[05:11]

<crweb>

had been off/on for days

[05:11]

around here, i've never heard of them blowing up

[05:11]

<crweb>

it serously was like a concusson blast

[05:12]

because it was a concussion blast

[05:12]

<crweb>

there was 4 little ones, and then the last one that i thought a car ran into the house

[05:13]

youtube.com

[05:13]

<crweb>

then power flickered and i was like oh!

[05:13]

<crweb>

i ran to the window outside, and it was litup like daylight

[05:13]

<crweb>

really bright white light daylight

[05:13]

scary

[05:13]

<crweb>

never experienced anything like that

[05:14]

<crweb>

i've seen a transformer go

[05:14]

<crweb>

yep

[05:14]

<crweb>

almost like that

[05:14]

<crweb>

only at night, so that "white" light in the center you could see for many many blocks

[05:15]

<crweb>

and the "humm" was really that loud

[05:15]

<crweb>

thats not the vid camera playing sound tricks

[05:16]

<crweb>

i'm going to get a picture soon as they open up those streets

[05:16]

<crweb>

they evac'd 2 block radious

[05:17]

<crweb>

www.youtube.com

[05:17]

<crweb>

that'll help you sleep at night

[05:18]

that's totally amazing, actually

[05:19]

i'm a sucker for lightning and big electric discharges

[05:19]

<crweb>

holy cow

[05:19]

<crweb>

www.youtube.com

[05:19]

<crweb>

that is neat

[05:19]

<crweb>

anyway.. it was scary

[05:20]

not related to electicity tho. it's just demolition work

[05:20]

<crweb>

yeah

[05:20]

<crweb>

www.youtube.com

[05:21]

<crweb>

this was kinda what we did

[05:21]

that guy with the camera was really scared ;)

[05:22]

<crweb>

well, i was more afraid for my many thousands of dollars in equimement

[05:23]

<crweb>

my whole family is eletrical engineers.. i knew what was going on ;)

[05:23]

* crweb is the outcast

[05:24]

<crweb>

www.youtube.com

[05:24]

<crweb>

alright, i'm out. later

[05:25]

later

[05:25]

<crweb>

have a good weekend

[05:26]

crweb: thanks you too

[05:50]

Anyone else finding the internet acting dodgy today? Gmail is down, my sms service broken, even the Neuros forums are acting up

[07:53]

yanvrn1: hey, long time no hear, how are things?

[08:08]

hello

[14:09]

<gremlin[it]>

hi JoeBorn

[14:19]

hi

[14:20]

<gremlin[it]>

i'm so tired this evening to hack the OSD ... had day at work :s

[14:55]

sorry to hear that,

[14:55]

I hope you have the energy to at least use it :)

[14:56]

hi JoeBorn !

[14:56]

get a chance, download the new disc iso I made for you.

[14:56]

we uploaded it the other night.

[14:57]

<gremlin[it]>

JoeBorn yes yes ...

[14:57]

<gremlin[it]>

at least i'll use some of the devices i was testing in day work :P

[14:58]

<gremlin[it]>

to give me some stamina :)

[14:58]

vmarks: where is it?

[14:59]

<gremlin[it]>

g'night all!

[14:59]

ask xorlev. he moved it somewhere useful for you

[14:59]

I wouldn't know.

[14:59]

(gee, that sounded really helpful.)

[15:16]

<swoag>

DeepB, are you around?

[15:17]

<DeepB>

swoag: yep

[15:26]

JoeBorn, in any event, it's named vmarks.iso

[15:26]

so it should be obvious once it's found.

[15:26]

JoeBorn: what is your opinion about USB jack location. We have a Dual USB and Single USB. Where do you prefer the Dual USB jack - front or rear?.

[15:27]

My last Q is to anyone also

[15:27]

rear.

[15:27]

I've never seen dual jacks installed in a pretty fashion.

[15:27]

vmarks: roger that.

[15:28]

if you could do it in an elegant way, go for it. but usually people have them exposed flush with the face of the device, no plastic bridge between the two ports, and it just looks unfinished.

[15:28]

recess them, plastic bridge, it could look better, but still might not be nice.

[15:29]

if dual is on rear, the component may be one of those RJ45+dualUSB combos

[15:29]

which would be fine on the back.

[15:30]

<swoag>

my preference is 2 in front, I ended up with buying USB hubs for my home PC because I never would go down the table to reach the USB ports in rear. :(

[15:30]

well, consider the use.

[15:30]

<swoag>

just as a user tho.

[15:30]

on a PC you're always needing to plug things in.

[15:30]

swoag: what device(s) do you typically use with the USB?

[15:30]

on a home entertainment device, less so.

[15:30]

<swoag>

USB drives.

[15:31]

Stick + unpowered portable disk ?

[15:32]

<swoag>

and USB Wifi dongle too, which has a reset button itself, often time I need to reset my wifi dongle, so can't live with it being in rear.

[15:33]

single on the side at the front, dual in the back.

[15:33]

dual on the side at the front wouldn't be all bad.

[15:33]

VUDU does the single on the side.

[15:35]

vmarks: VUDU locates a single USB right around the corner from the 'front faceplate'

[15:35]

?

[15:35]

correct.

[15:35]

left side, front corner.

[15:36]

want a photograph?

[15:36]

I see it, thanks

[15:44]

swoag: the scenario I am designing for is the housing is stacked on DVD player in home theater furniture.

[15:47]

swoag: so I tend to think that 2-rear-usb, is slightly better. Say if one has a 500g drive and a wifi dongle.

[15:47]

hmmm, well, this issue really comes down to what we agree would be typical transient device usage.

[15:48]

<swoag>

JohnDesigner, ya, as i said, I am fine with either way. :)

[15:51]

Okay, anyone else?

[15:51]

The scenario is:

[15:52]

OSD is installed in your "entertainment center".

[15:53]

You have a dual-USB port and a Single USB port.

[15:53]

Where on the OSD housing do you locate the dual and single?

[16:28]

<embedded-pk>

hi everyone

[16:29]

<embedded-pk>

can anyone plz help me to setup qt tools to develope applications on neuros OSD.....

[16:30]

hi embedded-pk

[16:30]

<embedded-pk>

hello joeborn...

[16:31]

most of the folks who can best help you are skewed towards european time

[16:31]

<embedded-pk>

ok

[16:32]

but the mailing list is much bigger

[16:32]

<embedded-pk>

where can i find that list?

[16:32]

groups.google.com

[16:34]

<embedded-pk>

thanks joeborn

[16:36]

<xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4>

hey guys; i have some questions about doing neuros development, using the colinux setup from "building on windows" on the wiki. is this the right place to ask?

[16:36]

<xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4>

also please do not be intimidated by my 1337 username.

[16:37]

haha

[16:37]

it's certainly an attention grabber!

[16:37]

<xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4>

lol i try.

[16:37]

<xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4>

it chopped off the last few letters.

[16:38]

im just happy when someone comes on with a unique first two characters :)

[16:38]

<xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4>

hehe

[16:38]

I really think the colinux setup is probably obsolete at this point, given the free vm setup

[16:39]

<xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4>

ok, i was wondering about that. there's lots of options to choose from.

[16:39]

<xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4>

do you think i should just scrap it and go with the vmware setup?

[16:40]

I do, sorry about that

[16:40]

where's the page for the colinux? I'll mark obsolete

[16:40]

<xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4>

wiki.neurostechnology.com

[16:40]

the vmware setup has everything pretty much pre-configured

[16:41]

<xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4>

and i found that link through..... the "setup and build guides" section on OSD_Developer_Home.

[16:42]

<xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4>

ok i'll try that then, and i may be back with more questions later and a similarily 1337, yet slightly modified, username.

[16:42]

<xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4>

thanks! :)

[16:45]

xXx_ZeR0H0T1CeH4: I'm guessing you still won't be hard to identify :)

[16:47]

he's sitting next to me and says thanks, his connection got reset when he uninstalled the colinux network bridge, lol

[16:58]

<jj2>

hi guys, i have some questions about subtitles and ,vob support, with my coleque we just bought several neuros, but without subtitles they are quite useless, for example my kid is just starting to learn english.

[17:00]

<jj2>

so are sibtitles planed in near future?

[17:01]

<jj2>

I could even contribute something, havent programmed in C for decade, but its like driving a bike

[17:41]

jj2: We are planning on supporting Subtitles. If you had some ideas on how to execute their impelementation, that would be greatly appreciated.

[17:43]

jj2: Personally, I am unclear on the OSD's HW capability to display VOBs

[17:45]

jj2: nerochiaro would be able to give you more specific information

[17:47]

jj2: where are you located geographically?

[17:47]

<jj2>

in Slovenia

[17:51]

JoeBorn: swoag : do you remember the latest on the OSD supporting subtitles and VOBs

[17:54]

jj2: are you on the mailing list?

[17:55]

groups.google.com

[17:55]

<jj2>

not yet, i just read related tickets and topic in gg

[17:56]

there was some specific discussion about subs and VOBs that you would find helpful

[17:57]

<jj2>

but because yout are expanding and switchint to Qt, i just wander if you are plannig to swith video player, but hardware is probavly not capable to run VLC

[17:59]

VLC has been referenced several times on the ML also. I suggest searching it to gain better information than I could provide.

[18:13]

jj2: in this channel a good time to get technical help is typically during (your) weekdays. Other times (like now) are more hit and miss for who is available.

[18:14]

<jj2>

JohnDesigner:

[18:14]

<jj2>

JohnDesigner_ what is yout local time, and thanks for hint

[18:16]

18:15 Friday (Chicago)

[18:18]

jj2: you are very welcome, sorry I couldn't offer more direct help

[18:24]

<jj2>