Log from #neuros IRC channel

<crweb>

nerochiaro: i've never seen a low powered device use a compressed OS for r/w

crweb: space costs too

<crweb>

but for r/w it _really_ costs

i see

crweb: can you check "Messagebox Enhancement" patch in patch list please ?

[01:56]

<gremlin[it]>

jffs2 is compressed and for small flash don't cost a lot ...

<crweb>

nerochiaro: i'm going to allow it. really NMessageBox is a "base class"

<crweb>

nerochiaro: it really doesn't even need to be designer based

<crweb>

its a full replacment for QMessageBox

<crweb>

which i still wish we would have just used style

[01:59]

<crweb>

but I couldn't convince eric or nick of this

[02:00]

crweb: ok, say so in patch reply, and let it go for now. some day we really need to push for moving all style tweaks to style class

[02:00]

but not now

[02:00]

<crweb>

already did

[02:01]

thanks :)

[02:01]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: i'm goign to patch qt to look for qt.conf in /etc/qt.conf

[02:01]

<crweb>

there simply is no other way without breaking our stuff, userapps, etc

[02:02]

sound the simplest way

[02:02]

quickest too

[02:02]

go for it

[03:20]

<crweb>

i wish it would make up its mind...

[03:20]

<crweb>

seems that with out rpath this round, everything working fine

[03:21]

<crweb>

thats 8 builds working, 2 not..

[03:21]

<crweb>

without rpath

crweb: with wiping everything on both OSD and build env, on each build ?

<crweb>

well, the 2 that didn't work weren't "controls"

controls ?

in the experimental sense ?

<crweb>

yeah

<crweb>

i "think" i wiped well on those

[03:25]

well, the issue here seems quite clear to me. something left over or missing from one build to the other is making rpath broken

[03:25]

<crweb>

all 8 that work, were built after those 2

[03:25]

<crweb>

still a 20% chance of a fail..

[03:26]

definitely not relaseable

[03:26]

<crweb>

you are probably right though... could have been leftovers

[03:28]

it have to be that

<crweb>

nerochiaro: all the davinci drivers i believe are open source and part of montavista for davinci.

crweb: i just wanted to make sure

<crweb>

this was my understanding when davinci and that platform was released

we'll see

<crweb>

but the slides, and fears/concerns do raise me the same questions

ya. so i asked. now, back to rpath

<crweb>

it looks to me like its working without qt.conf..

if the leftovers are from your own hacks, that's ok. if they are from previous builds, and may happen in user builds, then clearly it's not

<crweb>

there are a few font engine errors, but they occur evenw ith rpath..

[03:31]

<crweb>

i have no idea. the ones that failed are from our eval time

[03:31]

<crweb>

i've not had one fail since

[03:31]

<crweb>

maybe they failed cause of incomplete ldconfig

[03:32]

<crweb>

stuff was a mixed up during the rush

[03:32]

<crweb>

if you want to test. place -no-rpath in qtopia/Makefile configure line

[03:33]

<crweb>

which someone else should before we commit

eval time ? that was how many months ago

^

<crweb>

no, performance eval last week

<crweb>

err, week before last..

i see

what happens if it fails ?

i mean, what symptoms i get ?

<crweb>

plugins not found, fonts not found etc. you'll only see it in strace

<crweb>

apps will still start because ld.so.cache has the libs cached

but removing the cache ?

<crweb>

oh wait... i wonder if boot order was causing the fails

<crweb>

everything should fail unless you reboot if you remove the cache

<crweb>

i remember now that i changed mount order cause cache wasn't picking up qt

<crweb>

man i wish i had kept a non-working tree..

[03:39]

<crweb>

yeah, that could have been it

[03:39]

<crweb>

i didn't find that till later

[03:46]

well, maybe we should disable it in one or two builds of AZ (since they are all still intnernal) then give testing team instructions to test hard, with cache removals,etc

[03:48]

<crweb>

i've def got the cache system working

[03:48]

<crweb>

i tested it many hours

[03:49]

<crweb>

and i rm the cache every reboot

[03:49]

<crweb>

but yeah. lets give it to them. I haven't had a fail the last 8 times. and ld is fully working nowdays

[03:49]

go ahead

[03:52]

<crweb>

done

[03:52]

<crweb>

build away.

[03:53]

upping

[03:59]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: huge improvements in app startup time already

[04:00]

rpath ? or in general after busy hint removal ?

[04:00]

<crweb>

in general

[04:00]

<crweb>

FB starts up in like 3-4 max

[04:01]

<crweb>

i barely noticed any wait

[04:01]

<crweb>

seemed like a "normal" amount of time for something to occur

[04:02]

<crweb>

no rpath boosts us a little

[04:02]

<crweb>

ldconfig eliminated id say about 85% of all lookups

[04:02]

<crweb>

no rpath eliminated the rest

[04:03]

<crweb>

strangly enough... rpath is suppose to STOP lookups all together

<crweb>

sweet, i just played my first video on AZ

<crweb>

worked like a charm

<crweb>

don't look at me like that... i'm so busy working on it i've no time to use it ;)

<crweb>

lol

[04:11]

<crweb>

please video's from my LG env phone great

[04:11]

<crweb>

something my desktop won't even do

[04:11]

<crweb>

err, please = plays

[04:13]

i'm not looking bad at you, i understand that

[04:15]

<crweb>

that was to your cats

[04:16]

they look at you very bad. mostly since i've yet to feed them this morning

so it's pure hunger

<crweb>

<crweb>

going to ask this girl to marry me in 10 days...

that place looked actually like a church. i thought you were doing preparations already. congrats man

* nerochiaro puts stamp of approval

<crweb>

lol, thats the st. louis art museum

must've been the flowers or the white environs

dunno

[04:18]

<crweb>

most historic artwork is very christian... so that does kind of fit the theme

[04:18]

<crweb>

the museum i mean..

[04:19]

ya :)

<crweb>

its all thanks to neuros

anyway, big step there. you will probably have to say goodbye to geek excesses, though

unless she's geeky too

<crweb>

she's a total dork

<crweb>

shouldn't be a problem ;)

<crweb>

except that she likes that daylight/outside thing

<crweb>

i dunno what that crap is about

it has its upside

<crweb>

oh? cancer? heat? dirtyness..

what does she has to do with neuros ? did you get her as employment perk from Joe ?

<crweb>

yep, signed and stamped. You can't see the label on the back of her neck though

<crweb>

lol. no, i would have left for seattle.

<crweb>

I met her the same week i started

[04:24]

life sure is weird

[04:24]

<crweb>

stuff just kinda automatically fell into place..

[04:24]

<crweb>

yeah doubly so since starting neuros means not leaving the house ;)

[04:25]

:D

[04:25]

<crweb>

guess she keeps me outside..

[04:26]

<crweb>

good to get out side the house and code on my laptop sometimes i guess

[04:26]

i have brightness problems with mine

[04:26]

but in shade should work

<crweb>

i said outside the house. I huddle up at the coffee shop

<crweb>

:D

you at least walk to get there

<crweb>

AH!

[04:28]

<crweb>

i started thinking about frozen drinks and realized i left ice cream out

[04:28]

yuck

[05:05]

crweb: man, svn up an rebuild, the new XIM menu is a joy to look at and scroll into, imho

[05:06]

<mp0>

hmm, okay.

[05:06]

mp0: talking about Arizona, mind you

[05:07]

<mp0>

yes.

[06:02]

<mp0>

The xim menu does look perty... though I need a faster way to build this... perhaps more RAM.

[06:40]

<crweb>

was that a sarcastic check it out?

[06:40]

<crweb>

or a "wow, really cool"

[06:41]

crweb: the latter

mp0: dual core processors help a lot

<crweb>

good. I know john was excited.

<crweb>

nerochiaro: who did it again? wesley or gordan?

don't make me check, i keep mixing the two

check the patch messages

[06:43]

<crweb>

mp0: dual core cut my compile times down to 4 minutes 15 seconds

[06:43]

crweb: btw, the latest patch message should be XTOM but i forgot

[06:43]

<crweb>

and i just put two E6700's into a compile cluster, cutting Qt build down to less than 4 min

[06:44]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: which subject? mine look a little mixed since i've been replying

[06:44]

size of youtube page buffer

<crweb>

um..

<crweb>

where?

Increase the size of youtube page buffer, this fix bug#3174

<crweb>

oh oh. geez guys

<crweb>

TORFU9.0

no less

<crweb>

grr

[06:48]

is 3174 the "replay this video" thing?

[06:48]

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: sounds familiar. is it the one i cc'd you?

[06:48]

ya, I think so

[06:49]

<crweb>

yeah. i think so then ;)

[06:49]

hmm, that is a tough one gui-wise

[06:50]

in order to do what is requested, that means having a persistent dialog screen after every video is played.

[06:50]

<gremlin[it]>

new to all ... package manager : wiki.openmoko.org

[06:50]

asking "play again?".

[06:51]

crweb: if there are a couple more *useful* items to put on that dialog, like "more from this user" and "add to favorites" or the like, then maybe the dialog wouldn't be so annoying

[06:51]

gremlin[it]: is that "ipkg" or "lpkg" that they are based on ?

[06:51]

gremlin[it]: oh, ipkg, i see

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: you do whatever you want with it

gremlin[it]: isn't familiar distribution maintaining ipkg these days ?

<crweb>

I'm not sure what they expect me to do with it..

crweb: and the "play again" would just be a shortcut of sorts to automate "select last video, press play".

<crweb>

i still think if the video stopped playing, and the search results stay up with the item still selected, this is good enough

hmm, I'll need to check my original YT design. I seem to remember having outlined behaviour like that.

<crweb>

you have 2 days to get whatever it is fixed though

crweb: yeah, if the post-play dialog is only "play again" then it is not worth it.

[06:54]

since the video cannot be in memory and played immediately anyway.

[06:55]

<gremlin[it]>

nerochiaro, no at all familiar is almost dead ... i don't know exactly who is the maintainer now, but is someone in the OE group

[06:55]

gremlin[it]: i see

[06:56]

gremlin[it]: ipkg or opkg, i don't see much difference, beside the good news that it's maintained

[06:56]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: oh wow. what the heck

<crweb>

that is sweet (context menu)

crweb: tell that to John

* crweb admits that he didn't actually look at john's email

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: congrats on the new xim man

<crweb>

kickass

you likey?

thats good news

<crweb>

yeah i do

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: seems to be implemented (drawing wise) very good

it has some snap to it

crweb: the central tile seems to do the trick

crweb: we can improve it even more with some pixmap cache i think

<crweb>

yeah, i like

crweb: nerochiaro and I were just discussing converting the Status bar, clock bar, and main cursor to that same construction method too.

<crweb>

i like the metal/newish look

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: throw in the listview into the mix too

maybe the only thing i don't like totally is the green-ish color, but it's not that bad either

<crweb>

greenish?

crweb: "main cursor" is the listview cursor

the XIM (and keyboards) needed something to set it off from the background, but not look obivous that that was the borders functions

<crweb>

oh i see

ahh, i see. Listview cursor.

<crweb>

nice, it makes me feel... new

did you check the icon in the Help app?

well and the help app in general

<crweb>

help app...

<crweb>

hmm..

<crweb>

how do i get there?

press ?

<crweb>

oh ahh. heh

<crweb>

that window needs borders

<gremlin[it]>

nerochiaro, i don't read the doc ... but the important thing is that a company/big project will invest on it

gremlin[it]: agree

gremlin[it]: good news

<gremlin[it]>

talking with OE people ... next stable angstrom distro (2008) will use opkg as package format

crweb: agreed, I have a graphic BG for it, but wanted to keep the variables down until the text layout looked correct.

<crweb>

well, maybe look into instead of a full BG, just a borders

<crweb>

painting neat borders would be less memory and cpu than painting full BG

crweb: and the graphic BG would be of the similar construction of late.

<crweb>

i see

<crweb>

nerochiaro: i think we chose a good construction format then

crweb: ya, I'll convert the graphic idea to something tileable and in peices.

[07:04]

<crweb>

and by we.. i mean, if i was part of that.. i don't remember

[07:04]

at some point soon, we really need to do something about the dialog box buttons.

[07:04]

<crweb>

nero has the box buttons styled. you can do whatever you want to them

crweb: i just asked you about it once, and you said "sounds good". more or less

a key vote of confidence!

JohnDesigner: buttons, we can do. did you see that wood-texture sample with the round buttons ? you can have something like that

<crweb>

i'll get him links to the premade styles

[07:06]

JohnDesigner: well, not that kitch, i won't allow you that ;) but you get my meaning

[07:06]

yes, I get you :)

[07:07]

basically, the dialog buttons I have designed follow traditional button behavior (consistent looks for Hit, highlighted, selected states)

<crweb>

<crweb>

<crweb>

mac style really shows it off

[07:08]

<crweb>

doc.trolltech.com

[07:08]

<crweb>

and of course the wood style

[07:09]

<crweb>

which reminds me of a tacky trailor park

[07:09]

its a sight to behold alright

[07:09]

<crweb>

anyone using that for their desktop should be shot

so the dialog box uses the 'default push button' ?

<crweb>

or at least prevented from mating

roger that

<crweb>

define dialog box with an example

hey, trailer parks are part of the glorious american culture, you shouldn't insult them that way

[07:11]

<crweb>

true, my sister jill, and her husband my brother jack would take offense to that..

[07:11]

If you guys haven't had the pleasure, the canadian TV show "Trailer Park Boys" is good stuff.

JohnDesigner: seriously ?

7 seasons and a feature length movie of good fun.

<crweb>

lol, it is funny

wow

nerochiaro: oh yeah, I seriously love that show.

[07:13]

it takes a better part of an episode to get your berings on it, but its hilarious

[07:13]

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: show me a dialog box

[07:13]

<crweb>

err, tell me where to go

crweb: it's the thing that pops us when you press record, for example

anything with the horizontal orange bars on top/bottom

i guess

<crweb>

man, i can't get over that xim..

<crweb>

sweet

cool, glad you like it :)

[07:15]

crweb: i just got right now your joke about the brothers. i am that slow. (assuming you weren't serious)

[07:15]

(which i hope you weren't)

[07:17]

www.trailerparkboys.com

[07:17]

each season starts with one or more of the main characters getting out of jail and seasons end with someone going back.

[07:17]

whole bunch of running bits like that.

[07:18]

JohnDesigner: the guy with the nunchuks looks funny

[07:19]

he's great on the show. He's actually a professional musician that, as the story goes, was doing this character between takes and they wrote him in.

<crweb>

nerochiaro: ;)

supposedly he was on the set in some type of music/sound capacity

<crweb>

damnit... where is lorn when you need him

one episode has him playing guitar onstage with Rush

[07:21]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: I'm going to have to complain to a trolltech manager. Now they are saying they can't find my license info

[07:21]

crweb:please do

[07:22]

<crweb>

i've already gotten like 10 requests through and replied. and then suddenly vanish ?

[07:22]

<crweb>

i'm going to be really upset if it delay's that request another 3 days.

[07:22]

didn't they keep these previous requests on record ?

[07:23]

<crweb>

you would think... but theres no record of my email.. so..

[07:23]

crweb: scale it up

[07:23]

escalate ? what's the word ?

[07:24]

<crweb>

escalate.. bitch.. whine like a 12 year old girl

[07:24]

exactly

[07:25]

but bitch to the higher ups, to daddy

[07:25]

<crweb>

JohnDesigner: yes, those are default buttons

[07:25]

<crweb>

Sheridan will be available in like 20 minutes so hopefully she'll reply asap

[07:26]

crweb: good luck

[07:32]

<crweb>

agh, they took the email from the original thread which i guess gao sent to tom at limesg

[07:32]

<crweb>

we dunno why it worked from my neuros address for the last 2 weeks though

[07:43]

crweb: the important thing is that they can sort it out

[07:45]

<crweb>

that xim is just fantastic

[07:45]

<crweb>

brings a whole new life to AZ

[07:46]

<crweb>

making everything "exactly like torfu" was kind of killing the innovation and "newness" of what we are doing here

[07:47]

crweb: no one ever said we shoul've

[07:47]

<crweb>

i could see people saying "i lost my CF" for what?

<crweb>

its the same! lol ;) j/k. we had to have a base to work from

you did ?

<crweb>

yeah. if everything was exactly the same visually, what was the *user* gain

crweb: but did you really have people telling you that ?

<crweb>

no no, "I could see", i can imagine

[07:49]

oh, ok

[07:54]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: just to let you know, soon as trolltech gets back to me with input issue, i need reassigned some larger tasks.

[07:54]

<crweb>

but, for the rest of today before bed, I'm going to organize/clean house. so, later

[07:55]

reassigned tasks ?

[07:55]

what you mean ?

[07:55]

<crweb>

MattJ100: you have 36 hours to request changes in torfu

<crweb>

nerochiaro: more work assigned

crweb: you have a string of bugs on you for AZ2 and beyond

crweb: assuming AZ1 bugs are all off