Log from #neuros IRC channel

JoeBorn: allright, so shall we talk a bit about the thread in mailing list about our deficits in the filed of documentation, and how we should address these ?

[15:14]

yes sir

[15:15]

JoeBorn, I guess I can't reach you by IM, but I just wanted to see if we are talking at 4.

[15:16]

JoeBorn: well, i've been thinking some solutions, but they all require some non-Xiamen developer time, and we are in major shortage of that while we prepare AZ1 release, as you know

[15:16]

JoeBorn: but anyway, i think we should maintain a general developer manual for 3rd party app developers

[15:17]

jkridner: yes, that's my understanding, do you have the dial in information?

[15:17]

nothing majorly fancy, but at least explain the overall structure of the system, its various components, and the API that they expose

[15:18]

and then have auto-generated documentation for these APIs and document them as we have time

[15:18]

that sounds like a good start.

[15:19]

right, but as i said, it requires a bit of time invested by someone not from Xiamen (due to language barriers, mostly)

[15:20]

and right now schedule is pretty tight

[15:23]

well, I think I'd respond to the mailing list that at least thats our plan.

[15:24]

per our previous discussions, I'm also wondering if it isn't possible to have some of the internal team working through those APIs as well

[15:25]

I know that sending audio, as an example, to the NMS wasn't something our team would have been doing, but it seems that maybe other issues with the APIs would be uncovered if *we* were using them the same way as the community?

[15:26]

we are already using them the same way as everyone else

[15:26]

that audio issue was a corner case

[15:27]

let me clarify. the API are already there. they are used by us already, in teh same way community would use them. that's why a lot of time i just point people to the source

[15:27]

and say "look at this, this is how it is used"

[15:28]

it's not like reading a manual, but for the experienced devs it is usually enough (in addition to asking questions here and in ML)

[15:28]

however, for novices, the manual is of course better

[15:30]

<MattJ>

I'm not a novice, but I've had my head in Neuros source enough for it to have a lasting effect on me :)

[15:30]

MattJ: as do I ;)

[15:30]

<MattJ>

nerochiaro: You and crweb were lost to it long agi

[15:30]

<MattJ>

o

[15:30]

no no, crweb stays out of it

[15:30]

whether it was positive effect or negative, that's open to debate :)

[15:31]

<MattJ>

:P

[15:31]

<MattJ>

Toughened your soul, you mean

[15:33]

JoeBorn: it's ok if you reply there that we have a plan. but do we have one really ?

[15:35]

well, my schedule hasn't aligned with Gao, I hope to talk with him tonight

[15:35]

but I would hope we can move more internal communication into the open

[15:36]

don't do that. you'll scare the rest of us.

[15:36]

* vmarks kids.

[15:36]

I mean, where is the communication that the internal team is using to learn how to use our stuff?

[15:36]

JoeBorn: they write it, so they know how to use it "automatically"

[15:36]

JoeBorn: they aren't learning how to use it. They are building it.

[15:37]

nerochiaro: they didn't *all* write it *all* someone must be communicating about it.

[15:37]

JoeBorn: and if only one build a certain part, he teach the others in person. it's a lot more efficient

[15:37]

maybe in IM and in Chinese, that might be.

[15:38]

JoeBorn: and a lot of the time, the same person that builds a part, is reassigned tasks related to that part

[15:38]

JoeBorn: it will be a total waste of time to have them teach each other via IM in english when they are one meter apart from each other and can speak in chinese (+ the higher bandwidth of being there live)

[15:38]

allyourrejects: right

[15:38]

nerochiaro: well, it's all in IM, the office is as a quiet as a tomb, although there are meetings, etc.

[15:39]

its not *all* in IM anyway I guess, but a lot

[15:39]

i don't think the actual learning is in im.

[15:39]

allyourrejects: you might be right..

[15:39]

steven and hunt meet all the time to discuss how to do thigs

[15:39]

JoeBorn: well, i don't know how it's exactly in the field as we never tripped down there, but it would surprise me if they didn't scoot to each other's desk to ask a complicated question. or if they IM'd in english between them

[15:40]

understood.

[15:40]

JoeBorn: and if only one build a certain part, he teach the others in person. it's a lot more efficient+

whoops

mistype

i wanted to say

that one thing we can have persistenly in the open, is the schedule

[15:40]

maybe not the talk behind it, but the current schedule itself

[15:41]

and we've been trying to move a lot of our design discussions to here on irc

[15:41]

they keep it in MS project and last i cheked it has some web interface kind of thingie

[15:41]

JoeBorn: that was a major complaint from Adam, IIRC

[15:45]

well, yeah the schedule would be big, then at least people could see if and when we're working on things of interest to them, and tune or participate

[15:45]

that would be great.

[15:46]

at minimum, we can output to pdf of jpeg or something

[15:46]

I don't have ms project myself so I need something...

[15:48]

the issue with that is that one should remeber to do it, while web sharing should be kind of automatic. you don't need project to see it (though maybe you need IE, so that's not such a great idea)

[15:48]

anyway, it should be shared somehow

[15:48]

it good you agree

[15:49]

another question is: where should we share all these things (manual, schedule, auto-generated API docs). Clearly the wiki isn't cutting it for everything. It's too sparse and hard to attach things etc

[15:49]

at least, it doesn't seem it worked great for these kind of docs that are not in wiki format itself

[15:50]

the auto-generated docs we can mirror somewhere on the chicago server itself, that's not terribly complicated to do

[15:50]

but for the rest, we need a place where we can link them from and that people will look. something quite promiment

[15:50]

prominent

[15:51]

I don't know. The wiki is certainly not ideal for everything

[15:51]

I don't think the actual ms project thing is what we want to use

[15:51]

I think it requires a fancy expensive MS server, etc.

[15:51]

it's ideal for things that you write explicitly for the wiki itself. but this is not the case (maybe the manual, but not hte rest)

[15:51]

I don't believe folks will be enthused about that.

[15:52]

probably best to just output a jpeg or pdf, or whatever

[15:52]

no, it would actually suck, i agree. so let's just export MS project doc to PDF and share that

[15:52]

that's less objectionable.

[15:52]

PDF is the format they already use to share internally

[15:52]

so it will work

[15:53]

but where to share it from ? an OSD page in ODNT that's liked in a major way from ODNT front page ? or prominent links to these docs from the ODNT front page itself ?

[15:54]

probably the latter is preferable.

[15:55]

the problem with the ODNT front page is that's auto-generated from drupal and i dunno if we can put somewhere a prominent box with "DAMN IMPORTANT LINKS" or something

[15:55]

not even sure who set up that page

[15:55]

Steven, DeepB ?

[15:56]

Steven

[15:57]

he may be able to help again then

[15:57]

nerochiaro: to be more precise I'm unsure how much Steven did to set that up or if DeepB was involved.

[15:57]

JohnDesigner: i see

[15:57]

nerochiaro: but I worked with Steven on changing some of the default Drupal look and layout.

[15:58]

<DeepB>

??

[15:58]

DeepB: was it you who setup Drupal on ODNT ?

[16:00]

<DeepB>

yes, i was there, but not rearrange this, 4.x not 5.x version

[16:02]

DeepB: ok i see. can you do stuff on 5.x if someone need help with it ?

[16:02]

<DeepB>

nerochiaro: yes, i suppose

[16:03]

DeepB: ok, thanks. in case of need I'll contact you

[16:03]

<DeepB>

ok

[16:08]

nerochiaro: Just something to reassure myself of my sanity, QKeyEvent *is* available on the OSD, yes?

[16:08]

greyback: sure it is

[16:08]

we actually use it

[16:09]

nerochiaro: I'd say so, I'm just getting confused :)

[16:10]

greyback: what's upsetting you ?

[16:11]

nerochiaro: nothing major, just some strange compiler errors about QKeyEvent not being defined. Must be missing something..

[16:14]

greyback: don't recall any specific thing one has to do to enable it, i'm afraid

[16:14]

greyback: should be always enabled

[16:15]

nerochiaro: yeah, hence confusion

[16:15]

sorry i can't be of more help

[16:15]

no prob, I'll sort it out, it must be something real simple

[16:21]

it has to be enabled

[16:22]

you need to #include <QKeyEvent>

[16:22]

Are all the Keys defined?

[16:22]

yes

[16:23]

ok, that's handy anyway

[16:46]

ok, I'm back

[17:17]

JoeBorn: i'm back too (long phone call)

[17:18]

no problem.

[17:18]

where were we ?

[17:58]

sorry, Johan called me away

[17:58]

np

[18:02]

JoeBorn: so what did we conclude ? One of us update that thread with the promise of a developers' manual coming at some point in the future, and public schedule also sometime in the future ?

[18:03]

yes, I think those are two good actions.

[18:03]

any idea about timing of either?

[18:03]

do you want me to post or you?

[18:04]

the timing is what i'm worried about, actually. i think we should push something to make room for doing the manual properly

[18:08]

push to get the manual done quickly you mean?

[18:09]

no, push some other thing further off in schedule to make room for the "write the manual" task

[18:10]

well, I need to touch base with Gao, but I think we need to finish something on John's audio DB, I mean it's an embarassment that we haven't done anything with that.

[18:10]

but I'm ok with shark being scaled back a bit to a more simple, geekly application, I'll send out something on that.

[18:11]

so we can talk about things to push back. No one seems to really exactly care about the IR dbase at least in the immediate term.

[18:13]

i think we already replaced IR DB with subtitles support

[18:13]

regarding John's "audio DB" you probably mean "video DB" right ?

[18:14]

pushing shark or scaling it sounds good to me. take into account the fact i'll also be away next week

[18:17]

yeah, I meant video DB

[18:18]

yes, your vacation got canceled I heard.

[18:18]

bad weather or something

[18:18]

i have not seen anything about it coming in from John, we just discussed some concepts via I

[18:18]

IM

[18:18]

(I'm going to Scotland, that's the land of bad weather, man)

[18:19]

typhoons, I heard.

[18:19]

with hailballs the size of oranges.

[18:19]

JoeBorn: i heard you have them in Illinois, actually

[18:19]

that, and snow storms

[18:20]

and flooding

[18:21]

indeed, I don't reccomend you travel to Neuros HQ either

[18:21]

best to stay put (and continue to work hard)

[18:22]

the Video DB is being fevorishly slapped tog...crafted..at this very moment.

[18:24]

its awe inspiring lyricism in digital form

[18:24]

* JoeBorn feels awe, inspiration

[18:26]

nerochiaro: just think of all the Scottish cuisine you will be saved from

[18:27]

JohnDesigner: haggis does indeed sound terrible

[18:27]

nerochiaro: just as well to stay at home and boil yourself a t-bone.

[18:28]

nerochiaro: it's not that bad actually

[18:29]

too bad i already have plane tickets, and someone very close who will kill me if i don't take her on vacation to celebrate her master degree

[18:29]

so JoeBorn if you want to see me fully functional and all in one piece, i suggest you let me go. i can't type very well with missing digits

[18:30]

greyback: you're from there ?

[18:30]

greyback: Ireland actually, but the sister married a Scot and now lives in Aberdeen (in the north east)

[18:30]

pfft, talking to myself again

[18:31]

I visit Scotland about 3 times a year

[18:32]

greyback: i've been in ireland last year, but in the summer. weather wasn't so bad, i actually liked it a lot

[18:32]

nerochiaro: Glad to hear it!

[18:34]

nerochiaro: ok, but keep the indestructable pager on you at all times.

[18:35]

JoeBorn: i'll keep that away from haggis and whiskey. it should be safe. and feel free to post yourself to these threads, I'll add some more details on what I plan to do regarding docs, on the more technical side

[18:36]

JoeBorn: and if you can email out to Gao and Corlin about adjusting schedule to make room for it, i'll follow on that too

[18:36]

ok.

[18:37]

JoeBorn: don't forget you can also contact nero via the facsimile machine hotline.

[18:38]

johndesign: thanks for reminding me, nerochiaro please remember to carry your facsimilie machine with you

[18:40]

JoeBorn: i will wire it to the pager, to create the "hotline" part

[18:40]

nerochiaro: good thinking

[18:40]

an make the whole contraption draw power from whiskey. i should have no problem down there.

[21:25]

you guys seem to be linux AV experts, I'm looking for some way to locate sound of a specified frequency in an audio file, any ideas?

[21:27]

<MattJ>

wildintellect: Perhaps lad.linuxaudio.org would be able to help you

[21:27]

<MattJ>

(they have helped me before :) )

[21:28]

howdy

[21:28]

thanks

[21:28]

<MattJ>

wildintellect: It could be that there are some audio file format wizards here also - but I don't know

[21:28]

<MattJ>

Howdy gl2tosl2

[21:29]

MattJ: what country do you live in?

[21:29]

<MattJ>

gl2tosl2: England

[21:29]

anyone here a U.S. google soc participant from last year?

[21:30]

<MattJ>

I was a UK one

[21:30]

I'm can't figure out which box I should check for the google money on my taxes .... :(

[21:30]

other than that, how have people been?

[21:30]

<MattJ>

The usual, chugging away :)

[21:32]

weren't you about to graduate?

[21:32]

<MattJ>

Me? No...

[21:33]

um, okay

[21:33]

<MattJ>

I'm having at least a year's break, and working :)

[21:33]

Right, how's that going?

[21:33]

<MattJ>

Going well

good

crweb: you around?

hey guys

hey hostile

i think it's pretty lonely in here.

[22:50]

no way.

[22:51]

lol agreed

[23:20]

not lonely, I can do a wonderful tapdance.

[23:20]

parkerhiggins: it's most active around midnight to 9am CST i guess

[23:21]

that's when nerochiaro and crweb are around.

[23:21]

and MattJ

[23:21]

joeborn: neat. that's going to start in 2 hours?

[23:21]

cst central time?

[23:21]

yeah

[23:22]

something like that, although nerochiaro was up pretty late, so he might get in a bit later.

[23:22]

so parkerhiggins what's your interest in the OSD?

[23:23]

just got one today. i'm very casually into open-source, free software, etc, but i can't code. i'm mostly into free culture

[23:23]

gotcha

[23:23]

well, if you have ideas, you can contribute those too:

[23:23]

open.neurostechnology.com

[23:25]

cool! not yet, even. so far i fired up youtube and started an mp4 movie. but that's it

[23:26]

hey! it's a start and you contributed to the cause, so we're delighted to have you.

[23:27]

why thanks.

[23:29]

joeborn: forgive my inexperience, but to what extent can this thing be used as a dvr (in the tivo sense)? i mean, without listings it's already one step more, but how is it in terms of repeated recording times and such? is there a community that does that?

[23:29]

just forming

[23:30]

MattJ100 has done some work with remote programming and such

[23:30]

and our current focus is on implementing a programming guide. It's on the schedule that we'll publish shortly.

[23:31]

oh yeah, that was my other question. is there a timeline out there for when new features are expected? or is that the schedule to which you're referring?

[23:31]

yeah, we'll post that shortly.

[23:31]

sorry again if i sound silly. this really is my first real experience with the open-source world.

[23:32]

no need to appologize, I think one way we've not been effective is to not be inclusive enough

[23:33]

it's too easy to fall into the jargon and technical trap and all too soon we're like some exclusive community

[23:34]

which has never been the intention, but we need "newcomers" sometimes to remind us that we need to provide context and background, etc.

[23:34]

maybe. on the other hand, you want a very firm, robust foundation in the product before you introduce "the public" to it. but i definitely see where you're coming from

[23:37]

well, managing expectations and keeping things under wraps are two different things.

[23:46]

I need opinions!

[23:47]

* JohnDesigner waits for comedy to ensue

[23:48]

your preference - Genre or Catagory or Tag ??

[23:48]

("tag" assumes a del.ico.us or gmail type system)

[23:50]

<DeepB>