Log from #neuros IRC channel

well, i was able to keep anchored to the ground most of the time. but along one road we saw a truck toppled over, and the B&B host where we stayed the night said the police told her the wind toppled it. so, it was kind of strong-ish

[04:32]

you probably have nothing to fear. your heavy two handed viking axe will act as ballast

[04:36]

<crweb>

wow, thats intense

[04:36]

man, bowled over a truck. Thats some strong wind

[04:37]

a mighty wind

[04:37]

<crweb>

all we have are roads covered by rivers, and there on thursday i had like 1/2 of water all over our house

[04:37]

<crweb>

of course.. outside water was as high as the top of my truck tires

[04:38]

nerochiaro: the axe does come in hand for such occasions. or when I need a can opener.

[04:38]

crweb: didn't you always want a pool in your basement?

[04:39]

<crweb>

you mean subdiving training center, yes

[04:39]

<crweb>

err, scuba diving

[06:53]

anyone knows where is the implementation of viewoptions()?

[06:54]

i mean where does it state is set like what will be the font size.. blah blah bla

[06:57]

<crweb>

currently due to time restictions and.. relatively new life of the classes, font sizes and details are problem hard coded into the Views

[06:57]

<crweb>

err i mean are probably hard coded

[06:57]

hmm

[06:57]

<crweb>

if not, it uses Qt's font system

[06:57]

<crweb>

setFont(QFont blah blah)

[06:57]

lets say i want to set font size of listview

[06:58]

<crweb>

listview->setFont(QFont&)

[06:58]

should i hard code in delegateitem class?

[06:59]

<crweb>

no

[06:59]

<crweb>

fonts are user configurable

[06:59]

<crweb>

as i said, you use QListView::setFont(const QFont&)

[07:00]

but what i see itemdelegate is using option.font.....

[07:00]

and u said its hard coded

[07:00]

<crweb>

i said probably hard coded

[07:00]

<crweb>

but, maybe not :)

[07:00]

so it must be hard coded in listview

[07:00]

lolz :)

[07:01]

<crweb>

if it doesn't work, its probably hard coded

[07:01]

<crweb>

doc.trolltech.com

[07:01]

<crweb>

Try setFont()

[07:01]

i know that method...

[07:01]

<crweb>

actually thats how. I forgot we enabled multi language

[07:02]

<crweb>

you just set the font on the View

[07:02]

hmm

[07:03]

<crweb>

is there issue with that?

[07:03]

no i don't think there will be

[07:03]

<crweb>

font is also inherited

[07:03]

cause i saw it in the its ui header file

[07:03]

<crweb>

so if you don't set it, parent will be inherited

[07:04]

which is definitely meant that it has been set on the view

[07:04]

<crweb>

all widgets have a font set on them always

[07:04]

<crweb>

you can override by using setFont()

[07:05]

yeah

[07:05]

and can you tell me if i want to add items in the list where could i add new ones?

[07:05]

its Root.menu

[07:06]

bu where i cud be....

[07:06]

but where it could be...

[07:07]

<crweb>

we haven't gotten user menu's up yet.

[07:07]

<crweb>

that is a completely new system

[07:07]

<crweb>

its been put in place to allow user menus in the future, we just haven't had time to expand the feature

[07:10]

no i want to do it myself....

[07:10]

so how come i add menu

[07:11]

items in the menu **

[07:11]

<crweb>

just add the item to neuros-bsp/rootfs/base/etc/menu/Root.menu

[07:12]

<crweb>

make HelpTip = -

[07:12]

<crweb>

err, HelpTip = 0

[07:28]

that is what i am doing right now....

[07:28]

but rootfs is generated on compile time

[07:28]

right?

[07:28]

<crweb>

correct

[07:28]

<crweb>

thats why ou have to add your item to base/etc/menu/Root.menu

[07:29]

<crweb>

base, and make install's are merged into rootfs/fs/

[07:29]

hmmm

[07:31]

got it man...

[08:01]

crweb man.. i was resizing the list font to accumulate more items in the list.... but that's not accomplished because now its leaving space in between items.... how could i reduce their spacing in between

[08:06]

<crweb>

that would be JohnDesigner's fault

[08:51]

Application submittted. :)

[09:25]

hi all

[09:25]

GarBage: you there?

[10:57]

anyone know about mozilla or other browsers for embedded devices?

[10:59]

<mattl>

JoeBorn: what do you need to know?

[10:59]

JoeBorn: i think we should use webkit

[10:59]

I'd recommend webkit over gecko for embedded devices. Gecko is a bit too hoggy.

[10:59]

more than one person here did get that to work, it seems

[10:59]

webkit that is

[11:00]

well, I'm meeting with mozilla in a couple weeks, after LRL

[11:00]

I'd like to hear what they have to say for themselves.

[11:00]

what does any browser manufacturer have to say for themselves?

[11:00]

:)

[11:01]

its all gonna be the same

[11:02]

well, right, but they may have some new stuff too.

[11:02]

we're interested in performance of course, but it has got to play flash video.

[11:03]

I don't fully understand how that whole thing works, but somehow we've got to be able to play flash video whatever that means.

[11:03]

<mattl>

how do you play youtube right now?

[11:04]

<mattl>

that's effectively flash video.

[11:05]

JoeBorn: we can play flash video now, no ?

[11:05]

well, sort of

[11:05]

there are several issues

[11:06]

first, and I don't know what I'm talking about at all here...

[11:06]

but afaik, we just take the flash url and get the file url from that with a parser

[11:06]

which is a trick that won't work for all websites, will it?

[11:07]

Probably not. I noticed a lot of mentions of gnash on the wiki for flash decoding. Has anyone considered swfdec?

[11:09]

the deal with flash video is that we need to covert it to regular mpeg and then send to the DSP for actual decoding. whatever other decoder we use, it won't do that. it will decode purely in ARM, which we can't do

[11:09]

so swfdec and gnash are nice for playing flash animations, but not flash video (flv)

[11:11]

Why the intermediate conversion? Why not write a flv decoder to run on the DSP directly?

[11:12]

At any rate, idle questions. I've gotta run.

[11:12]

masquerade: we do all format parsing on ARM, only decoding on DSP. and it's all closed source stuff anyway

[11:13]

which we don't want to handle if possible

[11:13]

JoeBorn: what would a browser buy us (with regards to web video sites) ?

[11:14]

JoeBorn: i saw some emails about that, but all the talk about that was pretty confused and made little sense. i need to re-read though, i just skimmed

[11:16]

well...

[11:16]

first of all, I'm sure we'll have to implement real dsp codecs to do this right, and unfortunately that's a project for the 2.0

[11:17]

h.263 or sorenson spark as well as h.264 (obviously in the works anyway) and likely it sounds like VP6

[11:17]

no, I'm not really clear on how those interface with flash video per se. and a browser

[11:17]

but to answer your question, based on my rudimentary understanding

[11:18]

1. browser would give us a "real" way to translate the 'normal' url (as one would see in their browser) to the file, rather than our parser hack

[11:18]

again, I'm assuming that the parser hack thing won't work across different sites.

[11:19]

2. the browser would give users a way to access sites that we haven't yet built a "custom browsing experience " for

[11:20]

so, fine, it won't be an ideal browsing experience, and you'll likely have to use the remote as a mouse or whatever, but at least the user can have access to that content

[11:20]

rather than sitting around growing old waiting for us to take action.

[11:21]

finally, it would allow our partners to use web tools to create "applications" for the device.

[11:21]

so now, we're just handing them this "bag o parts" in QT & NMS or VLC, whatever, wouldn't it be better to have some guidelines and let them use HTML or the like.

[11:22]

geeze, nerochiaro you're fingers must really be frozen.

[11:22]

GarBage: you around?

[11:23]

JoeBorn: i'm typing another email, sorry

[11:23]

about he codec, little we can do on OSD1

[11:23]

understood.

[11:23]

we can't do codecs ourselves anyway

[11:24]

and if on OSD20 we outsource it, more power to whoever is doing it

[11:24]

i'm fine with that

[11:24]

regarding the browser, i think i get the idea now

[11:25]

it doesnt' sound bad, we probably just display some icon where the flash video would be on the page. when the user "clicks" on it, it will open up the fullscreen FLV player (that we already use for YT) and pass the URL to that to playback

[11:26]

the browser will look majestically hacky though, but can be made useable somehow

[11:27]

"majestically hacky" wow, that sounds beautiful!

[11:27]

so, what does adobe flash actually do?

[11:28]

I'm confused about that.

[11:28]

<mattl>

so, the server sends a flash mime type to the browser and then browser passes that to the plugin.

[11:28]

in your regular browser, when a flash video is embedded in the page, the browser loads up the macromedia flash plugin, which does all the job of fetching and decoding it

[11:28]

<mattl>

the plugin renders a flash widget, at the given dimensions or to fill the container.

[11:30]

www.hulu.com

[11:32]

ok, I think I get it on the flash.

[11:32]

so is that the sum of it?

[11:32]

what do you mean ?

[11:33]

well, I mean that sounds pretty simple.

[11:33]

in the PC browser, it is. on the OSD we can't do that

[11:33]

<MattJ_>

crweb: Is the YouTube favourites file staying on the CF card?

[11:34]

<MattJ_>

I was under the impression config couldn't go there

[11:34]

we're talking about having to license flash from adobe or whatever, but if all flash does (in the case of flash video) is to read the "mime type" whatever that is and plays it in the right given dimensions, then it seems like something we could easily do ourselves, no?

[11:34]

no

[11:34]

oh. why not?

[11:35]

I'm just talking about the step of getting the video, not all the issues with playback once we have it.

[11:36]

oh, yes, getting the video is easy, we just implement a small plugin that catch the URL of the video. that's what i said earlier

[11:36]

our plugin doesn't display the vidoe in the page, just an icon: "there's a video here. "click" to play it fullscreen"

[11:36]

you click and our plugin gives the URL to the FLV player on the OSD, which play it fullscreen

[11:36]

<MattJ_>

crweb: nm, I just saw your message in the scrollback :)

[11:40]

nerochiaro: yeah, I got that "majestically hacky"

[11:40]

JoeBorn: no, the hacky part isn't that

[11:40]

the hacky part is the browser itself

[11:41]

so this "mime" thing is just a human readable file or whatever?

[11:41]

JoeBorn: mime is a system that allow a web server to tell programs what kind of content a certain file is (text, video/avi, video/mp4, etc)

[11:42]

JoeBorn: because a link can point to a file that's called foo.avi but which in fact is a text file with an "incorrect" extension

[11:43]

ok

[11:43]

ok, well I have to run, I'll be back later, if you're still around, we'll pick this back up then.

ok

ok, I'm back

and now you're not.

JoeBorn: i'm around-ish too

[15:12]

no you aren't.

[15:12]

<crweb>

I'm not

[15:12]

<MattJ_>

Hmm

[15:12]

you are.

[15:12]

but matt's all hoople.

[15:12]

<crweb>

cgi.ebay.com

[15:12]

<crweb>

mmmmm... i want.. bad

[15:13]

I have a 1962 chevy impala.

[15:13]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: thats buying used right?

[15:13]

you can actually build a brand new 1967 camaro.

[15:13]

<crweb>

oh?

[15:13]

<MattJ_>

Out of tin cans?

[15:13]

there's a company that makes new reproduction bodies and frames out of steel.

[15:13]

crweb: i dunno

[15:13]

<crweb>

wonder how much that is though. I don't care what year it actually is. It just looks freaking sweet

[15:14]

www.superchevy.com

[15:14]

talks about the company that makes the reproduction bodies.

[15:14]

so you could build a brand new one, no used parts.

[15:14]

looks like one of these cars they use in car chase movies and always beats the police by doing improbably jumps

[15:14]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: thats dodge charger i think

[15:14]

oh my goodness

[15:15]

nerochiaro, you're thinking of the charger, or the mustang in BULLITT

[15:15]

oh, I never told JoeBorn that I'm also a car guy.

[15:15]

yes, I have classic cars.

[15:15]

vmarks: maybe. or maybe i was actually thinking the car they use in the old dukes of hazzard series.

[15:15]

which is what kind of car?

[15:15]

class?

[15:15]

that's a charger

[15:15]

<crweb>

nerochiaro: yeah thats a dodge charger

[15:15]

<crweb>

I want a classic car...

[15:16]

<crweb>

67 Chevelle SS, or 67 camero

[15:16]

building a new camaro is probably better than restoring an old one.

[15:16]

although I used to be able to get chevelles pretty cheaply.

[15:17]

<crweb>

wouldn't mind a 67 Gt 500 (elienor)

[15:17]

<crweb>

eleanor

[15:18]

<crweb>

oh wait. thats a fastback

[15:18]

<crweb>

i meant 1967 Shelby GT500

[15:18]

<crweb>

cgi.ebay.com

[15:18]

<crweb>

:D

[15:20]

shelby cobra, if you please. If I'm going to have a mustang, it can be a regular old 65 or 66.

[15:20]

I almost bought a 66 for 2500 usd.

[15:20]

ok, so one follow up question about the flash video serving

[15:21]

<crweb>

vmarks: those are very cool

[15:21]

I guess I'm to understand that the mime system is just for telling the client what kind of file is being served?

[15:21]

crweb: vmarks: you should get one of those instead: bp3.blogger.com (i'm sure you will get a kick out of it)

[15:21]

or is there more to it than that?

[15:21]

it's Luigi!

[15:21]

Luigi only follow the Ferraris!

[15:21]

JoeBorn: yes

[15:21]

<crweb>

vmarks: why are the cobra so cheap?

[15:21]

vmarks: luigi ?

[15:21]

more to it or just that?

[15:22]

JoeBorn: just that

[15:22]

nerochiaro, one second...

Luigi

JoeBorn: it's a pretty basic standard used by web servers and browser

[15:22]

JoeBorn: and in other places too

[15:22]

ok, so is the location of the file actually going to be possible to determine in all cases?

[15:23]

vmarks: ah, cars the movie

[15:23]

crweb, cheap?

[15:23]

it seems that all we need is to know the location of the actual file, right?

[15:23]

then our media system can handle the rest, right?

[15:23]

<crweb>

vmarks: ebay replicas are going for like <45k. but all the others i mentioned are going for like 100k+

[15:23]

vmarks: but really, that car is for real, including the need to keep the back open since the engine can't fit and need to vent heat

[15:24]

vmarks: and runs pretty fast too

[15:24]

nerochiaro, I have a volkswagen beetle. I understand rear engine air-cooling.

[15:25]

jpsaman: greetings!

[15:25]

vmarks: ah, beetle. nice one too

[15:25]

<MattJ_>

Tivo are (have?) switching to XMPP

[15:26]

JoeBorn: yep

[15:26]

JoeBorn: if the codec is right

[15:26]

so how do we get the location of the file?

[15:26]

do we have to use flash or is there some workaround?

[15:26]

JoeBorn: using a browser ?

[15:27]

using xmpp for what?

[15:27]

nerochiaro: well, on the OSD, using, well I don't know what

[15:27]

I'm wondering what the options are

[15:27]

if it's some indeciferable proprietary code or just some standard thing that we can interpret.

[15:28]

<crweb>

i think the options are probably closer to what Gao said with us writing "Channels" for the osd to use

[15:28]

<crweb>

on OSD1.x

[15:28]

using a broweser the user just browser the the page with the video, our browser we see the flash plugin tag in the HTML with the URL of the video and give the user to ability to start it

[15:28]

<MattJ_>

JoeBorn: They used to periodically connect to Tivo's server to collect scheduled recordings, etc.

[15:28]

eww, ugly sentence there, sorry

[15:28]

ask me to repeat if it was too confused

[15:28]

MattJ_: oh, that's interesting.

[15:29]

JoeBorn: it's all standard HTML, nothing indeciphrable

[15:29]

nerochiaro: that's ok, but the tag in the HTML always gives the file location in a standard way

[15:30]

so in other words, I could write a browser that would interpret all those tags, provide some majestically hacky interface and call VLC to actually play the videos?

[15:30]

JoeBorn: the browser would be a normal HTML browser

[15:31]

JoeBorn: otherwise it's something like we do now

[15:31]

well, I don't know what "normal" is, but firefox tells me to down load the flash plugin.

[15:31]

JoeBorn: an application that just read the HTML, parse it, and use the data

[15:31]

JoeBorn: suppose we had firefox on the OSD

[15:31]

<MattJ_>

The page can specify the URL of the plugin, which the browser can optionally prompt the user to install (by directing them to that URL)

[15:32]

JoeBorn: instead of the macromedia flash plugin we would put our own fakeflash plugin pre-installed. that plugin would just take the url and call VLC or whatever to play the video

[16:12]

cool.

[16:12]

bbiab

[16:12]

i'll probably be asleep. i'm burnt out for today

[17:03]

<MattJ_>

I have the TV remote next to me, but it feels so much better to switch channel via the PC :P

[17:17]

MattJ_ is it working?

[17:17]

<MattJ_>

JoeBorn: Completely

[17:18]

and BTW, can you make the channel button on the remote, actually *ahem* change the channel?

[17:18]

<MattJ_>

I wish (someone requested that on the forums, I guess you saw)

[17:18]

* JoeBorn hangs head in shame that we have to ask hackers to fix this bug.

[17:19]

MattJ_: no, I didn't see that.

[17:19]

<gremlin[it]>

good evening !

[17:19]

<MattJ_>

The main app swallows all the keypresses, so any fix must be in there

[17:19]

<MattJ_>

I'll take a look, it could be I could come up with a patch

[17:19]

<MattJ_>

Since it is a feature I would really like too :)

[17:20]

<MattJ_>

Good evening gremlin[it] :)

[17:21]

gremlin[it]: greetings.

[17:21]

should I ask for some assistance for you?

[17:21]

<gremlin[it]>

hi JoeBorn MattJ_

[17:23]

<MattJ_>

JoeBorn: If you mean me, then I'm ok, I'll poke people if I have questions :)

[17:24]

<MattJ_>

I believe there is a bug open about this already

[17:24]

<MattJ_>

But understandably not high priority

[17:24]

I don't know, it seems like a very useful thing to me.

[17:24]

<MattJ_>

I already sent an email to crweb anyway, about the scheduler, I don't want to overload him :)

[17:25]

and maybe I'm just dumb, but it seems like something reasonable to fix, I mean the blaster already works

[17:25]

<MattJ_>

Yeah, hopefully it will be easier to fix in Qt than the old system

[17:26]

<MattJ_>

btw, Qt provides a messaging system, which it seems many of the components (such as the scheduler) are now using to communicate

[17:27]

<MattJ_>

I have made a Lua library to use this system in Lua scripts

[17:27]

<MattJ_>

It would be my dream to wrap as many commands as possible, document them, and make this an easy way to get started hacking on the OSD

[17:28]

well, I'm delighted to hear what sounds like progress from your viewpoint.

[17:30]

<MattJ_>

Indeed :)

[17:42]

<crweb>

the main app doesn't swallow the key presses

[17:42]

<crweb>

the problem is application focus

[17:43]

why's that?

[17:43]

<crweb>

channel up/down is page up/down in gui. So when does the keypresses actually effect tv channel? only on pass through?

[17:43]

<crweb>

JoeBorn: cause there is no other button to do it. and its pretty universal standard

[17:43]

I guess.

[17:44]

<crweb>

plus all the other variables. Channel up/down can't change channel if recording, or if playing back

[17:44]

<crweb>

what should have happened is Channel up/down be a programmable button that is sent directly to Television

[17:44]

well, not necessarily

[17:45]

what if the user has a set-top box that controls the channel, but not the volume

[17:45]

thats my situation, and I don't think it's that uncommon.

[17:45]

<crweb>

see, there are to many cases there also

[17:45]

<crweb>

because OSD has no tuner, and eveyrone might have a different device to each "direct" button

[17:46]

I think we're doing it the right way, but we just have to make it work.

[17:46]

<crweb>

if osd had a tuner and had complete control, then the other controls would be more useful

[17:46]

well, except that the tuner wouldn't work for half the stuff that most folks want to record.

[17:46]

<crweb>

works ok in my tivo..

[17:47]

what's your source of content?

[17:47]

<crweb>

i've got 1 tivo on direct cable analog

[17:47]

ota?

[17:47]

<MattJ_>

crweb: I was thinking that it should change channel only in passthrough