[00:24]	<daurnimator>	hey
[00:24]	<daurnimator>	I'm recording something now
[00:24]	<daurnimator>	I told it to record for 1:30:00
[00:24]	<daurnimator>	about 30mins in now
[00:25]	<daurnimator>	how can I get it to extend it for a 2hour total recording?
[10:13]	<JoeBorn>	DeepB: you there?
[10:14]	<DeepB>	JoeBorn: yeah
[10:15]	<JoeBorn>	do you have time to continue our ubuntu adventure?
[10:16]	<DeepB>	sure
[10:16]	<JoeBorn>	I got stuck about 30 seconds after you left last time :)
[10:16]	<JoeBorn>	ok
[10:35]	<JB_hand>	aaarrrggghh!
[10:57]	<gremlin[it]>	hi all
[11:06]	<gremlin[it]>	there are some test about I/O speed on OSD on SD CF USB ?
[11:07]	<gremlin[it]>	I mean, on write all connections support 3Mbit/s
[11:43]	<JoeyBorn>	hi all, how's everyone doing.
[11:44]	<gremlin[it]>	hi JoeyBorn
[11:44]	<JoeyBorn>	if there's anything I can do to make your stay here at #neuros a more pleasant one, please don't hesitate to ask.
[11:44]	<JoeyBorn>	gremlin[it]: greetings
[11:45]	<gremlin[it]>	where are u today JoeyBorn ?
[11:45]	<gremlin[it]>	thanks JoeyBorn
[11:45]	<JoeyBorn>	except please don't ask me about broken APIs, poor documentation, obscured proprietary code or...
[11:45]	<JoeyBorn>	but other than that, I'm here to help!
[11:45]	<JoeyBorn>	I'm in Lincolnwood, IL
[11:45]	<JoeyBorn>	home of the Jaguars
[11:45]	<gremlin[it]>	there are some test about I/O speed on OSD on SD CF USB ?
[11:45]	<gremlin[it]>	I mean, on write all connections support 3Mbit/s
[14:00]	<Joeborn>	garbage: I'm stuck out for a while more
[14:24]	<DeepB>	Joeborn: ok
[16:52]	<japhy`>	hello
[16:52]	<japhy`>	anybody mentoring GSoC here?
[16:53]	<JoeBorn>	you're looking for nerochiaro, crweb
[16:53]	<JoeBorn>	may1937 might be a mentor this year too
[16:53]	<JoeBorn>	anders_
[16:53]	<JoeBorn>	which project are you looking at?
[17:15]	<japhy`>	I'm thinking about web browser
[17:15]	<japhy`>	and I thought about not basing it on Webkit
[17:15]	<japhy`>	but on some really lightweight, alternative browser
[17:15]	<japhy`>	Dillo and Links2 come to mind
[17:16]	<japhy`>	and Arachne, but Arachne is closed source
[17:16]	<japhy`>	Arachne seems to be really good model for UI, since it was originally developed for DOS, with mouseless systems in mind
[17:19]	<JoeBorn>	well, certainly the web browser project is not limited to webkit, thats for sure
[17:19]	<JoeBorn>	I don't know arachne, so I can't speak to that.
[17:20]	<JoeBorn>	soc will require generating some os code, but afaik, there's nothing wrong with inclusion of something closed
[17:20]	<JoeBorn>	obviously as long as all the licensing is kosher, etc.
[17:20]	<japhy`>	I've used Arachne in my DOS days and it was great. Now it only partly supports HTML4 and I'm not sure about CSS, so it's probably out because of functionality
[17:22]	<JoeBorn>	japhy`: well, I'll look how complete the description on the wiki is.
[17:22]	<JoeBorn>	the goal is not a desktop browsing experience really
[17:23]	<JoeBorn>	as you indicated, probably not mouse and keyboard, but also really targeted at multimedia
[17:27]	<japhy`>	At the spot, Links2 or Dillo seem to be better choices for rendering, and Arachne as inspiration for UI, but of course more thorough research will be part of the project.
[17:27]	<japhy`>	I just named some alternative browsers that I know of at the moment.
[17:28]	<JoeBorn>	gotcha
[17:28]	<JoeBorn>	wiki.neurostechnology.com
[17:28]	<JoeBorn>	edited a bit, I don't know if that makes it more clear
[17:29]	<japhy`>	Multimedia, hmm... it would either need Flash+JavaScript (hard)
[17:30]	<japhy`>	or using own external player for FLV/MP3/WMV streams
[17:30]	<japhy`>	along with figuring out actual stream URL
[17:30]	<japhy`>	(supposing it doesn't break site's TOS)
[17:30]	<JoeBorn>	well, my friend, you understand the project exactly :)
[17:31]	<japhy`>	Figuring out stream and using external player seems to be easier, and I think I will focus on this approach in the proposal
[17:31]	<JoeBorn>	but one thing I'd add is that if we figure out the work around or hack, the approach would be to approach the site with a working proto and get permission.
[17:32]	<japhy`>	I don't really know about gnash, but I tried some open source flash implementation (I think it wasn't gnash), which just didn't seem to work, but I will also look into this in research.
[17:32]	<JoeBorn>	so there's value in a prototype even if it's outside the TOS since most of the sites want their content on a set-top box as long as we can comply with basic requirements
[17:32]	<JoeBorn>	yeah, I think gnash is behind
[17:33]	<JoeBorn>	you can check the logs of this channel from the last few days and crweb and nerochiaro are basically indicating that they feel going through the "front door" so to speak is virtually impossible.
[17:33]	<JoeBorn>	it looks like the focus should be more on figuring out a way that doesn't rely on flash
[17:34]	<japhy`>	I'm not really well acquainted with OSD at the moment... does it have player for FLV files and streams now?
[17:34]	<JoeBorn>	yes
[17:35]	<japhy`>	great, this will make the project much easier
[17:35]	<JoeBorn>	and even where it doesn't, your approach is the correct one that you should assume that the stream will be handed off to the multimedia system.
[20:04]	<JoeBorn>	this ubuntu installation has really gone swimmingly
[20:04]	<JoeBorn>	shockingly so, actually.
[20:10]	<MattJ>	JoeBorn: Great to hear :)
[20:51]	<JoeBorn>	what IRC program do you use on ubuntu?
[20:51]	<MattJ>	I use XChat
[20:51]	<JoeBorn>	do I have to compile it?
[20:51]	<MattJ>	No :)
[20:52]	<MattJ>	Applications->Add/Remove...
[20:52]	<JoeBorn>	ok
[20:52]	<JoeBorn>	oh, wow, that's great.
[20:53]	<MattJ>	'tis why I use Ubuntu :)
[20:53]	<JoeBorn>	well, it's really impressive.
[21:39]	<DeepB>	JoeBorn: :)
[21:42]	<JoeBorn>	DeepB: not much the sleeper are you?
[21:45]	<DeepB>	well, not much, i have slept
[21:48]	<DeepB>	but ring at the wrong time :)
[21:55]	<JoeBorn>	well, as you can see, things seem to be going fine with the ubuntu install
[21:55]	<JoeBorn>	although I can't figure out wifi, but it's not urgent ATM
[21:55]	<DeepB>	still on Ubuntu? are you shiny happy people among us?
[21:56]	<JoeBorn>	I'm really impressed, I'm shocked at the things that just work.
[21:58]	<DeepB>	the power of the GPL :)
[22:09]	<JoeBorn>	didn't work so well for fedora
[22:16]	<DeepB>	it's a Debian, but dumb people like us
[22:17]	<DeepB>	*made for
[22:24]	<JoeBorn>	yeah, well, its not that simple. Clearly they didn't sacrifice much functionality or you wouldn't use it.
[22:25]	<JoeBorn>	My guess is that it's two things. One, the community thing really does work, and fedora's corporate structure is somehow an albatross
[22:25]	<JoeBorn>	second is they take a looser position on patents and IP and are more willing to give to make things easier and better for users.
[22:26]	<JoeBorn>	whereas, fedora is more staunch.
[22:27]	* MattJ  stays away from the corporate-structure distros :)
[22:28]	<MattJ>	and I have been more than happy with Ubuntu
[22:33]	<JoeBorn>	I can see why after one day
[22:52]	<JoeBorn>	anyone here use kubuntu?
[22:52]	<JoeBorn>	given the OSD using Qt, maybe that's a good choice for me?
[22:52]	<MattJ>	I don't (not a KDE man myself)
[22:53]	<MattJ>	Possibly
[22:53]	<MattJ>	Qt apps work in GNOME too though
[22:56]	<JoeBorn>	they do?
[22:56]	<JoeBorn>	what's the difference then?
[22:57]	<JoeBorn>	and not to be a be a complete nincompoop (though that's often hard for me to avoid)
[22:58]	<JoeBorn>	but if the OSD is using Qt and KDE is using Qt
[22:58]	<JoeBorn>	then how does the OSD avoid needing KDE for it's applications?
[23:00]	<JoeBorn>	or let me ask this a different way.
[23:00]	<JoeBorn>	will a KDE application be able to run on the OSD, with the horrors associated with "porting?"
[23:01]	<JoeBorn>	without the horrors I meant
[23:04]	<MattJ>	Yes, and no
[23:04]	<MattJ>	It makes it much easier to port :)
[23:05]	<MattJ>	Than say, if it was using GTK (which is what GNOME apps use)
[23:05]	* JoeBorn  wishes to emphasize that "horrors" are to be avoided as much as possible
[23:05]	<MattJ>	If you run a Qt app in GNOME you can spot the differences right away
[23:05]	<JoeBorn>	do they have some kind of stench?
[23:05]	<JoeBorn>	a proprietary smell?
[23:06]	* JoeBorn  feels gloom and despair setting in.
[23:06]	<MattJ>	No, but there is the usual holy war between KDE/Qt and GNOME/GTK :)
[23:06]	<JoeBorn>	skype is supposedly written in Qt
[23:07]	<JoeBorn>	it seems fine. I used it and no ill beset me, not yet anyway.
[23:07]	<MattJ>	:)
[23:07]	<JoeBorn>	perhaps its a slow growing infection
[23:07]	* JoeBorn  looks between toes for early signs of infection
[23:08]	<MattJ>	Once you realise it is too late
[23:24]	<crweb>	yo
[23:25]	<crweb>	JoeBorn: kde uses Qt for its toolkit the same way we do
[23:25]	<JoeBorn>	greetings
[23:25]	<JoeBorn>	crweb: why don't we need KDE?
[23:26]	<crweb>	what would we use it for?
[23:26]	<crweb>	;)
[23:26]	<JoeBorn>	I have no idea, what does my computer use it for?
[23:26]	<crweb>	its a desktop like gnome
[23:26]	<crweb>	and windows
[23:27]	<crweb>	and osx. its "everything you see"
[23:27]	<crweb>	start menu's, file browsers, text editors
[23:27]	<crweb>	etc
[23:27]	<JoeBorn>	I see.
[23:27]	<crweb>	you should boot the kubuntu live cd and see
[23:28]	<JoeBorn>	I have ubuntu installed on this machine.
[23:28]	<crweb>	you can install both at the same time
[23:28]	<JoeBorn>	does it duplicate everything?
[23:28]	<crweb>	but, it might clutter up your menu's. which is why i recommeded the livecd
[23:28]	<JoeBorn>	or can I just switch desktops
[23:28]	<crweb>	you can switch
[23:28]	<JoeBorn>	what do you use?
[23:28]	<crweb>	gnome items, and kde items will show up in the menus
[23:29]	<crweb>	I use kubuntu
[23:29]	<MattJ>	I knew he was going to say that :)
[23:29]	<crweb>	its more of a windows feel i think, gnome is more of a Mac OS7 feel
[23:29]	<JoeBorn>	well, I actually wouldn't have been all that pleased if he hadn't said that
[23:29]	<JoeBorn>	he pushed for Qt after all!
[23:29]	<crweb>	I've got many patches in kde and amarok
[23:30]	<JoeBorn>	it'd be a bit like "well yeah, it's good for you, but for myself, I use something else!"
[23:30]	<MattJ>	crweb: You last used GNOME when?
[23:30]	<crweb>	and now you can install kde on windows
[23:30]	<JoeBorn>	why on earth would you do that?
[23:30]	<crweb>	MattJ the last time I used gnome, i had a developer tell me something wasn't a bug but a feature and I should bug off with my opinion
[23:30]	<crweb>	MattJ it was fixed in the next version
[23:30]	<MattJ>	:)
[23:30]	<MattJ>	:))
[23:31]	<crweb>	i moved to kde in 2004, and go so far as to not even have gtk installed on my system. but thats just me
[23:31]	<MattJ>	Over-reaction, don't you think?
[23:31]	<crweb>	well, that was just a summery
[23:31]	<crweb>	gnome 2.8 was not a pretty time either
[23:32]	<crweb>	300% larger code base, 1/2 the features of 2.6, and 2x the memory usage for... 1/2 the featuers
[23:32]	<MattJ>	:)
[23:32]	* MattJ  doesn't think it is all that bad right now
[23:32]	<crweb>	probably not
[23:33]	<crweb>	but I will never deal with a gnome developer again
[23:33]	<MattJ>	and KDE only just decided to get their act together on usability and HIGs
[23:33]	<crweb>	and i wont' use something i'm not welcome to hack on
[23:33]	* crweb  was also a gtk dev back in the day
[23:34]	<crweb>	JoeBorn: kde has many awesome packages such as kate, and amarok
[23:34]	<crweb>	JoeBorn: because Qt4 is a complete cross platform toolkit, these applications can now run on any OS
[23:34]	<crweb>	1 toolkit. every OS
[23:35]	<crweb>	this is the future
[23:35]	<crweb>	and thats every OS, and embedded systems too
[23:35]	<crweb>	if OSD had keyboard and mouse, we could install kde, amarok, etc
[23:36]	<crweb>	gtk hasn't quite got its act together in that department
[23:36]	<crweb>	but it will in time
[23:38]	<crweb>	the bias is totally my opinion, they are both great packages (gnome/kde). I just feel my time better spent not being involved in such a Closed open source community.
[23:38]	<MattJ>	I don't think it is that bad
[23:43]	<crweb>	I'm really excited about kde4 though
[23:43]	<crweb>	everyone is complaining about it not being much.. but /me remembers the gnome 2.2 to 2.4 switch. which resulted in a completely empty gnome.
[23:44]	<crweb>	kde4 has a awesome future using the newest technologies (since it is a complete rewrite from the ground up). In a few more months well start seeing the amazing stuff
[23:59]	<MattJ>	I added a great new security feature to wooble
[23:59]	<MattJ>	and now I can't log it
[23:59]	<MattJ>	It's really secure
[23:59]	<MattJ>	*log in
[23:59]	<MattJ>	So I think I will give in trying and disappear off to bed :)
[23:59]	<JoeBorn>	that's the kind of security we're looking for.