N3: Courtesy of the Community

Background

I have noticed in the discussions recently, that it looks like there isn't a very bright future for the N3. I, like many others in the community, initially got involved with Neuros because of their line of portable audio players, ultimately, the N2. When initial development began on the OSD, there was always the issue of the N3 looming about, with no progress towards it. Instead of moping over the situation, I have a plan on how we can make the N3 a reality.

This represents my vision on how the community can build an N3. It is an initial push in what I consider an interesting direction, intended to instigate thought and stir discussion. It is not the gospel of the N3. This is a pretty big project, and would need community support to be a success.

The Idea

I have a new vision for the N3. It is a community-built product. The entire thing, from head to toe, will be built on the community process. Community members and a hardware engineer will take the current schematics (and layout, if we can get it) of the OSD, shrink it for use in a portable device, while adding an LCD, battery power, great audio support, and FM radio broadcast support. Some of the existing components will be removed: at least ethernet, we will decide on a single flash device and the TV hardware.

The software for the device will be completely written or ported by the community. It is, in fact, outside the immediate scope of this project. This project is to get us the hardware. There are many possible solutions for the software, from a port of Rockbox, to a modification of the OSD software, to a completely new design.

An important aspect of this project is that it will be completely open source. We will not use closed source codecs, nor vendor versions of existing open source code.

Features Needed

  • LCD
  • Battery (life is undecided, but at least should be able to record 4 - hours or so)
  • Any hardware changes needed for low power operation - FM transmitter
  • Battery charger (uses USB connector?)
  • USB charging - Audio quality (new ADC/DAC?)
  • Would a headphone preamp make sense?
  • Hardware to support high quality mic input
  • Would digital in/out make sense? (multichannel?)
  • Reasonably small form factor

Funding

This will make or break the project, and other ideas are appreciated. We could take pre-orders, but that probably would not amount to much. I guess first we'd need to figure out exactly what we need the hardware engineer to do, and how much that would cost. Also, there is the cost of the enclosure production (and setup?), and the prototype board production. Perhaps we could use the SoC mentor money as a seed, but we would need quite a bit more than that. Lots of work to be done here.

Rough Outline of Objectives

  • Phase I - Solidify the design. Settle on a feature set.
  • Phase II - Identify parts. Given the features we want, what parts will get us those features given space and power constraints?
  • Phase III - Figure out how much money phases IV, V and VI are going to take.
  • *Phase IV - Integrate the selected parts into the schematic. Also, make sure things are setup for as little power use as possible.
  • *Phase V - Shrinkage. Figure out how to make the thing portable.
  • Phase VI - Enclosure. (could also need professional support here)
  • *Phase VII - Manufacturing support. We will get the boards built and tested.
  • Phase VIII - Dev boards. We have working hardware and can start selling dev boards. The project is complete. Now the community can start getting the software going.

(*) This phase will require the support of a hardware engineer. If we can't find one in the community, we will have to explore options on how best to hire one.

Possibilities

Can we make a couple of smart design decision to help enable a lower cost version of the device? Scrap the high quality audio stuff, just include a normal DAC/ADC, maybe even drop input. In a similar fashion, maybe there is a similar style in which a HD version could be made. This would only be worth pursuing if there was a way to get all these similar products from the same base board design.

Neuros' Involvement

This is a Neuros community project. The goal is to get a N3 dev board out, and Neuros has many ways it can help make that happen. Neuros has a lot to offer: manufacturing, helping find or supplying the hardware engineer, enclosure design, reality checks.

If the dev board is any success, Neuros is free to do what they wish with the product.

Conclusion

The whole idea here is that we can leverage the schematics of the OSD to build the N3 cheaply, with few hardware modifications. If that is not an achievable goal, this project won't succeed. Since this is a community project, it can proceed at its own pace, and there will not be pressure to get a product out.

Are other people in the community interested in this idea, even if not the specifics? Please, post your own vision, or what tweaks you would like to see to mine.

Comments

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Networking?

There have been a number of attempts at integrating wifi into portable players, they've been largely unsuccessful, but I wonder if it's because they've been so crippled. I can't help but wonder if we did WiFi in an open, unecumbered way if it couldn't be a genuinely useful feature (for syncronizing, for browsing and downloading from remote collections, for streaming audio, etc.)

To author of post "This is starting to look like 442v2"

Dude, I am so sorry, but I accidentally deleted your post as part of a spam cleanout. It caught my eye right after I had clicked "confirm". My apologies.

Count me in!

I've got an N2 that I like, but the iPodites are slowly catching up storagewise... we need to keep them on their toes. So sounds like we should start writing stuff on the wiki! I suggest collecting a bunch of ideas and sorting them (with advice from the Neuros guys) into 'N3' and 'N4' buckets, working on making N3 affordable and most of all possible. Also, try and design in as long a life as possible.

Some ideas from me:

* the tiniest USB host possible, with batteries and storage just for the OS - plug in your favorite usb storage device for media storage. So we stay relevant even as storage goes on getting more and more dense. Realize that if the N2 had an SD card slot instead of solid state flash, it would still be a 2GB device without the backpack.

* if it's an audio player, keep it an AUDIO player: skip the fancy hi-res color (expensive) screen in favor of something cheaper and more power efficient. A small e-paper screen like the OLPC uses? Neuros guys might have a better idea what's available. That said, higher dpi is better than lower dpi if the cost increase is marginal. Or we could even think about trying to design an audio interface so it could be screenless? voice recognition for album browsing?

N2 housing?

Another option (again in the spirit of refactoring) would be to use the N2 housing.  These molds are basically just sitting there and we could rig up something that could put a DM320 board in those housings.  Obviously its not viable for production, but it would be better than a pcb between a couple peices of plexiglass, at least people could use the thing as a player...

Support from Neuros

I think its needlessly ambitious to try to do this entirely on the communities own.  We're happy to support this effort, we're just not in a position to "lead it."  Particuliarly for stuff like prototype boards and the like, it'll be tons easier for us to crank out some stuff than trying to piece it together from the community.  The biggest areas that our resources are scarce on the firmware/integration and the mechanical engineering.  If you can live with an N2 type form factor, I'd say we might be able to come up with something.  My person view is that you won't be able to get much community support until you have something that at least vaguely resembles a "product."  Maybe you can start with an OSD housing and stuff some additional stuff in there (there's plenty of air) and at least get something useful in a housing.  I guess think of it as something of a hardware "refactoring" effort.  Add batteries, etc to the OSD, do the power mgmt, etc. etc.   then we put it in a smaller, more portable housing, etc. etc...

Oh yeah...the N3...

Thanks for posting your ideas. I would be excited to see movement on this. From what I've gathered over the past few years the N3 is not on the map for NeurosAudio. This does sound like a huge challenge. I wish I had hardware expertise to offer.

I own two N2s (got the 2nd one when they were clearing out the 80GB drives). Here are the top reasons I use an N2:

1. It is one device that gives me the ability to record (encode to mp3) as well serving as my main digital audio player.

2. Storage. There still aren't and 80 GB iPods (are there?) Are there other portable audio devices with this much storage? Do I understand that the plans above specify memory-based storage - with a possibility of a hard drive version? ("...maybe there is a similar style in which a HD version could be made...") The reason I don't own an Edirol is storage. My N2 provides an additional (offsite) backup for all of my most important music. It's also a useful portable hard drive.

3. Built-in FM transmitter. Super useful for playing examples at rehearsals and use in rental cars.

4. Expandability. Although I don't swap backpacks very often (hassle...takes too long to transfer flash memory) I loved that this feature was offered. I don't like having to buy an entirely new device as my requirements grow. (This said, I could definitely live without the backpack feature. Thinking along these lines...regarding the DAC issue maybe an external unit or easy user upgrade could be offered? I think there are a lot of audiophiles out there (not me). I also own SlimDevices Squeezeboxes and there are a lot of audiophile questions/tweeking discussed in the forums.

5. Community. Open firmware etc. I've messed around with the garbage branch of the firmware - even experimented with modifying it. I would have loved to see some of the ideas demonstrated therein (recording level graphics...Car Mode...) brought back to the official firmware. I mainly use the official 2.28 firmware now because it is more stable and because the filebrowser feature is really useful.

"electrical engineer"

. . . darn, i'm just about to graduate HS and go to RPI for electrical engineering . . . if only i knew know, what i will know then . . . XC

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